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[Total Members Voted:]

Yes

14 (51.9%)

No

13 (48.1%)

Total Members Voted: 13

[SusanK]

Actually part of it is to break the media hype and sensationalism over being transsexual...
snipped for brevity...

I have the exact opposite mindset of somebody who desires to go deep stealth.  But I have been a professional activist my entire short career, and involved with progressive and queer activism since I was 18, before I ever really got to deal with my gender identity issues fully.  I feel it is my obligation to be an activist regarding these issues, so society one day does progress to the point where I no longer have to self identify as trans to make a point. 

That's cool, thanks. The community needs both, the activists and those supporting the activists - we can't all be outspoken. I've spent enough of my career in the light of being a maverick and/or rebel, and just want now to get on with my life as quietly as possible. But I'm realistic to know that the trans label won't go away and always be a question. It's why some more public transwomen occasionally complain about the endless repititive questions about being trans.

I wish you and folks luck and care.

--Susan--

[zombiesarepeaceful]

I think the struggle for gender identity is being known as a man or a woman, or neither, not the traits we express. If it was about traits alone, surgery wouldn't be necessary. *shrug*

Matt

Edit: Then again, its not just about being physically a man or woman, because those who chose to be non-op are still physically male or female, but may want to be recognized as the other gender. Its a combination of things.

[Ken/Kendra]

I just speak for myself when I right the following things.

By traits, I am going by the assumption of being like personality traits. Not like anatomical, social, or even behavioral traits. If you do mean traits in that sense, I will change my vote to Yes.

I voted NO mainly because I dont think gender identity even if polar, has exclusivity to traits. I do think that there are such things as feminine and masculine traits.

I dont think having traits from the other genders (plural) changes your own gender (identity), unless you think, feel and believe you are that gender. But I separate gender identity from sex, expression, behavior, and social interactions.

As for gender behavior and gender expressions (walk, talk, dress), I do think many do believe there are masculine and feminine types.

I think those that break gender norms, especially public, also help themselves and others to widen and expand the behaviors open, acceptable, and available to a person.

Certainly one may not feel like they belong to their body.

[ssindysmith]

Aaaagh, Hip Replacement...say no more.

Well no his shiny metal can be seen when he's NAKED LOL   >

[Pica Pica]

Aaaagh, Hip Replacement...say no more.

Well no his shiny metal can be seen when he's NAKED LOL   >

  I see, the king of all princes.

[ssindysmith]

LOL yep and you gotta climb the ladder to see the Prince

[Seshatneferw]

Well, um...

This depends on what you mean by gender-specific. I can't think of a trait that is exclusively specific to either gender (assuming that one thinks there are only two genders, but let's not get distracted by that issue). However, it's obvious that some traits are more common / often stronger in one gender or the other -- witness how many of us have a history of not being able to fit in as a member of the apparent gender. Just how strong the correlation between a trait and gender has to be for one to consider it gender-specific is a matter of taste.

  Nfr

[Nero]

However, it's obvious that some traits are more common / often stronger in one gender or the other -- witness how many of us have a history of not being able to fit in as a member of the apparent gender.

Amen to that!

[asiangurliee]

I wonder if the majority of people has a feeling that they are male, it could be that they just feel comfortable with their body.


This is an interesting question.


Cisgender men might not really think they are males, but it's just that they are born male and they don't question it and they take it as a fact, the same with cisgender women.

I question if people actively feel that they are male or female or that being a male and female is as important as some of us transsexuals think.

In terms of gender specific trait, I don't think it's what we do, it's HOW WE DO IT.

Femininity does exist and masculinity does exist but there are no words to describe them because people have different way to express their femininity and masculinity, it can be very subtle and it might not even be translatable to others. But alot of males can do very feminine things but they don't think they are being feminine doing it, so femininity and maculinity describe things that we can't agree upon on. Gender is so complex. ah.

[Pica Pica]

don't know...i was sure there wasn't, but then Sindy brought chilvery up, and I also thought about sassyness.

It seems that chilvery is a male trait and sassy a female one, because it seems that a criteria that has to be met to display them is partly one of gender.

I think this is because chilvery is a term for a combination of traditionally feminine elements, like compassion, but wrapped up in a manner of acting that is traditionally masculine. Compassion by defeating the opressor.

Sasisness seems to be the other way round. Traditionally male qualities, like assertiveness wrappend in traditionally feminine ways. Assertiveness by teasingly flashing a leg.

....Made me think anyway.

[asiangurliee]

don't know...i was sure there wasn't, but then Sindy brought chilvery up, and I also thought about sassyness.

It seems that chilvery is a male trait and sassy a female one, because it seems that a criteria that has to be met to display them is partly one of gender.

I think this is because chilvery is a term for a combination of traditionally feminine elements, like compassion, but wrapped up in a manner of acting that is traditionally masculine. Compassion by defeating the opressor.

Sasisness seems to be the other way round. Traditionally male qualities, like assertiveness wrappend in traditionally feminine ways. Assertiveness by teasingly flashing a leg.

....Made me think anyway.

If a guy was being "sassy", you wouldn't know it because society will say he is just being an asshole. So i don't agree they are gender traits.

[Thundra]

This depends on what you mean by gender-specific. I can't think of a trait that is exclusively specific to either gender (assuming that one thinks there are only two genders, but let's not get distracted by that issue). However, it's obvious that some traits are more common / often stronger in one gender or the other -- witness how many of us have a history of not being able to fit in as a member of the apparent gender. Just how strong the correlation between a trait and gender has to be for one to consider it gender-specific is a matter of taste.

But there is the rub! Is a trait more prevalent in one gender than the other innately so, or is it institutionalized by society? If men were not taught by example, or butchies like me for example, would I innately know to behave that way? Conversely, would a self-administered femme behave modestly if she was not taught to be that way within her social circle? Because I grew up in the black culture, and women are not always taught to behave modestly in that circle. They are taught to be expressive, and view the saxon culture to be repressed.

It is for those last reasons that I have always observed that it is more acceptable within the latina or black or asian cultures, to be gender-variant than within the dominant saxon culture, and so, the rules of conduct with the gender-variant community seem to reflect that "fact."
I know that some people are reading this and going, what? She is crazy!  The Latino culture is based on machismo, and the black culture does not even recognize the homosexuality in it's midst, let alone the asian culture....but hear me out.

In the families that I have known, there is resistance surely towards a person coming out as homosexual or gender variant. But! Once that was done, the families that I knew of were much more accepting of the differences. What I observed was that it was society that treated them more shabbily, resulting in even less opportunities for employment.

But I digress. It is my opinion that what trait differences are assigned to each gender are ingrained not inborn.

[Altair]

Chilvery isn't a male trait and modesty isn't a female trait.  They are considered traits that belong to men and woman but only in our culture.  Male and female are terms that refer to sex - these are things that are biological.  Man and woman refer to things that are culturally defined. Gender Identity refers to whether you identify with the term "man" or "woman."

All that aside, there are such things as gender specific traits because gender is defined by culture and all cultures group things.  However, what cultures group as belonging to "man" and "woman" varies dramatically.  In some culture, assertiveness is placed under "man" and in others it is placed under "woman."  Some cultures have other categories besides "man" and "woman" but, unfortunately, American culture only has two and people who deviate from that tend to be frowned on. 

[Thundra]

Altair,

your whole post was very well-written, and makes total sense.
I agree whole-heartedly. I am very chivalrous, even though I am female like lots of butch women. I treat women the way I'd want to be treated, or I should say, have been treated in their position.

Thundra

[Emerald]

Chilvery isn't a male trait and modesty isn't a female trait.  They are considered traits that belong to men and woman but only in our culture.  Male and female are terms that refer to sex - these are things that are biological.  Man and woman refer to things that are culturally defined. Gender Identity refers to whether you identify with the term "man" or "woman."

All that aside, there are such things as gender specific traits because gender is defined by culture and all cultures group things.  However, what cultures group as belonging to "man" and "woman" varies dramatically.  In some culture, assertiveness is placed under "man" and in others it is placed under "woman."  Some cultures have other categories besides "man" and "woman" but, unfortunately, American culture only has two and people who deviate from that tend to be frowned on. 

YES! Well done! Well said!

-Emerald