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Author Topic: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes  (Read 2699 times)

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Butterfly

The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« on: December 16, 2007, 09:16:14 pm »
The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200712/200712170019.html
December 17 2007


Crossdressers are men obsessed with wearing womens clothes. They are neither necessarily gay nor transsexuals and cross-dressing is common across the globe. In fact, a CIA report on cross-dressing in 1993 says they are mostly heterosexual and they wear women’s clothes usually as a means of reducing psychic stress or tension.

Wing Walker

Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2007, 09:31:16 pm »
The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200712/200712170019.html
December 17 2007


Crossdressers are men obsessed with wearing womens clothes. They are neither necessarily gay nor transsexuals and cross-dressing is common across the globe. In fact, a CIA report on cross-dressing in 1993 says they are mostly heterosexual and they wear women’s clothes usually as a means of reducing psychic stress or tension.

Thank you for the news posting.  It confirms what I have known all along:  there is a huge difference between transsexual persons such as I and others, and that the difference isn't in the clothing.  It's within the body and seeks to make the outside congruent through and through as opposed to change on the purely external level.

Wing Walker
Transsexual, F to F

TheBattler

Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2007, 11:16:50 pm »
The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200712/200712170019.html
December 17 2007


Crossdressers are men obsessed with wearing womens clothes. They are neither necessarily gay nor transsexuals and cross-dressing is common across the globe. In fact, a CIA report on cross-dressing in 1993 says they are mostly heterosexual and they wear women’s clothes usually as a means of reducing psychic stress or tension.

Thank you for the news posting.  It confirms what I have known all along:  there is a huge difference between transsexual persons such as I and others, and that the difference isn't in the clothing.  It's within the body and seeks to make the outside congruent through and through as opposed to change on the purely external level.

Wing Walker
Transsexual, F to F

Hmm,

Make me sound like my idea of starting HRT as the wrong choice. I came from a CD background and could never get out of my head the desire to wear a skirt/dress. I so much relate to that story.

We are not all that different.

Alice

Posted on: December 17, 2007, 01:48:49 PM
By the way,

This worries the heck out of me - that I am transistioning for the wrong reason.


I am a programer so I look at things logically.

From a young age I always wanted to wear a dress - but to me say I was female was not logical. The fact is a have a male body and hence I am male. That is why when I 1st went to therapy I wanted to get rid of my CD Habbts.

Well it turns out I am more female than I thought and my cross dressing is just an expression of that. I always though guys want to wear a skirt to know how it feel - alas it is only us TG types who do so. Coming out of denile the only thing left to do is to transistion so I can perhaps fit into society.

But it still is a worry that I am just doing this out of my fanticy and wish to wear skirts. It does not make sense that I am more comfortable as Alice as I am Alan for most of the time. But somehow that need to transistion is within me.

:icon_help:

Alice

Kate

Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2007, 01:58:57 pm »
But it still is a worry that I am just doing this out of my fanticy and wish to wear skirts. It does not make sense that I am more comfortable as Alice as I am Alan for most of the time. But somehow that need to transistion is within me.

And I'm guilty of warning you about that, but you know what? You gotta do whatever makes you happy in life hon. Looking through the skirts thread, it seems some people do transition to allow themselves that freedom of expression, including the chance to wear skirts 100% of the time.

Only you know - or can find out - what you need to enjoy this life. To not be fighting depression all the time. To keep your energy to enjoy the things that make your life worth living to you.

Is doing something "for the wrong reasons" really wrong if it brings someone happiness as opposed to misery?

Just be aware that transition will *profoundly* change every aspect of your life. There's a difference between being out "comfortable AS Alice" and BEING Alice 24/7, in every aspect of your life. It won't be a role, it won't be "as Alice," it'll be YOU. Forever. In every way, good or bad. Your bridges will be burned, and there will no longer be any Alan ever again.

~Kate~

Sheila

Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2007, 02:13:41 pm »
This is one of those myths. A Transexual just wants to wear the clothes. For a Transexual it is a internal need to be female as that is what they are. As for a CD it is mainly external. They like the clothes  and want to wear them and be female for a while.
I hope I said it right, as I know there are persons who will trash what I said. I'm sorry if I said it all wrong.
Sheila

Offline Lisbeth

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Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2007, 02:19:30 pm »
This is one of those myths. A Transexual just wants to wear the clothes. For a Transexual it is a internal need to be female as that is what they are. As for a CD it is mainly external. They like the clothes  and want to wear them and be female for a while.
I hope I said it right, as I know there are persons who will trash what I said. I'm sorry if I said it all wrong.
Sheila
As far as I have been able to figure out, TSs want to be the opposite gender all of the time, and CDs want to be the opposite gender part of the time.  Adding further criteria just confuses the issue.
"Anyone who attempts to play the 'real transsexual' card should be summarily dismissed, as they are merely engaging in name calling rather than serious debate."
--Julia Serano

http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2011/09/transsexual-versus-transgender.html

Melissa-kitty

Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2007, 02:31:25 pm »
um.. a CIA report??
LOL!

Kate

Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2007, 02:44:44 pm »
This is one of those myths. A Transexual just wants to wear the clothes. For a Transexual it is a internal need to be female as that is what they are. As for a CD it is mainly external. They like the clothes  and want to wear them and be female for a while.
I hope I said it right, as I know there are persons who will trash what I said. I'm sorry if I said it all wrong.
Sheila
As far as I have been able to figure out, TSs want to be the opposite gender all of the time, and CDs want to be the opposite gender part of the time.  Adding further criteria just confuses the issue.

I agree, but looking around the forum, it's apparent to me that no matter how clearly we define terms, it doesn't seem to help people struggling with this very much. SO many people have to figure out what their drive really is, what they need... do they dress because they're female? Or do they think they're female because of an urge to dress? Things just aren't very clear-cut for many people, and my heart really goes out to them.

What DO you do if you start out "just" CDing, but eventually find that you think you'd be much happier living that way permanently? I know the TS purists will rebel against that and say they're "not real TSs" to protect the clarity of their own diagnosis, but... I dunno how much politics like that helps those who are truly suffering, not clearly falling into one definition or the other.

~Kate~

Offline Hypatia

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Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2007, 05:13:24 pm »
Looking through the skirts thread, it seems some people do transition to allow themselves that freedom of expression, including the chance to wear skirts 100% of the time.
I believe you're referring to moi, dear. It's a misconception I'm commonly confronted with: Just because I'm a trans woman who openly admits I like wearing skirts, people assume I'm trans just for the clothing. WRONG! I'm a trans woman because I'm a woman who got assigned the wrong gender at birth. The point is--I'm a woman. If I was all about the clothes, I'd be a CD. If I were just a CD, would I identify as a woman, take hormones, change my name legally, plan on getting SRS at the first possible opportunity? I just don't happen to think that my preference in clothing ought to call my gender identity into question, in fact, I'm sick and tired of that BS, the assumptions that if you're really a trans woman you have to prefer wearing pants. Yes, I have gotten that crap enough times, including from a shrink. I was not looking forward to confronting it here too, but knew enough to expect it would turn up.

The fact is I did not practice cross-dressing all those years I was hiding my gender identity; I did not begin wearing women's clothing until after I'd come out as transsexual. I know that for many of us cross-dressing eventually leads into coming out as trans, but for me personally it did not take that course. I came out as trans because of my inner gender identity issues, such as identifying with women, and realization that I should have had a vagina, that my body was all wrong for my gender identity. I've noticed in the transgender community that as soon as a woman admits she likes wearing skirts, she's branded a CD, like she's not really transsexual, just a wannabe pretender.

Kate, I respectfully request you to retract your assessment of my motivations. I apologize if my posts in these forums haven't been clear enough about my actual motivations for transitioning, that you could misread me like this, and I hope I've cleared it up now.
Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls

TheBattler

Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2007, 05:46:34 pm »
Looking through the skirts thread, it seems some people do transition to allow themselves that freedom of expression, including the chance to wear skirts 100% of the time.
I believe you're referring to moi, dear. It's a misconception I'm commonly confronted with: Just because I'm a trans woman who openly admits I like wearing skirts, people assume I'm trans just for the clothing. WRONG! I'm a trans woman because I'm a woman who got assigned the wrong gender at birth. The point is--I'm a woman. If I was all about the clothes, I'd be a CD. If I were just a CD, would I identify as a woman, take hormones, change my name legally, plan on getting SRS at the first possible opportunity? I just don't happen to think that my preference in clothing ought to call my gender identity into question, in fact, I'm sick and tired of that BS, the assumptions that if you're really a trans woman you have to prefer wearing pants. Yes, I have gotten that crap enough times, including from a shrink. I was not looking forward to confronting it here too, but knew enough to expect it would turn up.

The fact is I did not practice cross-dressing all those years I was hiding my gender identity; I did not begin wearing women's clothing until after I'd come out as transsexual. I know that for many of us cross-dressing eventually leads into coming out as trans, but for me personally it did not take that course. I came out as trans because of my inner gender identity issues, such as identifying with women, and realization that I should have had a vagina, that my body was all wrong for my gender identity. I've noticed in the transgender community that as soon as a woman admits she likes wearing skirts, she's branded a CD, like she's not really transsexual, just a wannabe pretender.

Kate, I respectfully request you to retract your assessment of my motivations. I apologize if my posts in these forums haven't been clear enough about my actual motivations for transitioning, that you could misread me like this, and I hope I've cleared it up now.

Hypatia,

You may find that Kate was refering to me when she wrote that post. She knows my situation very well. I somtime do wonder if I am transistioning for the freedom to wear skirts and I expressed that concern earlier in this thread.

Alice

Offline tekla

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Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2007, 06:01:57 pm »
Yeah, I'm digging on the CIA reporting on it.  Interesting observation that one.  "In most cases, crossdressers were well educated and were high achievers, driven to seek personal success.”  The most likely of people to have pressure put on them, and by nature, people with 'successfull" careers that you want to put pressure on.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...

Kate

Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2007, 07:15:42 pm »
Looking through the skirts thread, it seems some people do transition to allow themselves that freedom of expression, including the chance to wear skirts 100% of the time.
Kate, I respectfully request you to retract your assessment of my motivations. I apologize if my posts in these forums haven't been clear enough about my actual motivations for transitioning, that you could misread me like this, and I hope I've cleared it up now.

I apologize. I phrased that poorly. I meant that it seems as if wearing skirts is very important to many people who transition, so apparently a love for skirts doesn't "mean" anything.

I don't know why you transitioned. I don't know why anyone transitioned. I don't even know why *I* transitioned. It apparently wasn't about the (ultra feminine) clothes, makeup or jewelry, as I actually seem to have an aversion to things like that, which sometimes make me doubt my own TSism. And it wasn't about expressing femininity or a "feminine side," as I'm still just... well... me?

I don't know if I was born with a female gender identity. I don't know if I'm a "woman inside." All I know, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, a truth and fact so solid and real that my entire existence coalesced around it... is that I HAVE TO BE A GIRL. I HAVE TO TRANSITION.

Everything else, my very life even, is just a thousand, distorted yet wonderfully magical reflections of that simple Truth.

That's all I know. That's all I am.

~Kate~

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Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2007, 09:30:48 pm »
Kate, I apologize if I misread your posts and overreacted.

It apparently wasn't about the (ultra feminine) clothes, makeup or jewelry, as I actually seem to have an aversion to things like that, which sometimes make me doubt my own TSism.
Oh dear, that is really funny in a sad kind of way! Because I've felt anxiety--or been made to feel anxious--that I'm not the right kind of TS--because I do like ultra-feminine styles. So you and I both get the same sort of insecurity from different directions. LOL, it's like you can't win no matter where you're coming from! But then this is what women are up against all the time--you're either too this or too that -- the constant anxiety-producing messages drummed into women all their lives is that you're never good enough.

This is why I posted in "Myths in Our Community that Need to Die a Quick Death"--
Quote
Myth 1:
You can't be a real woman unless you're feminine.

Myth 2:
You can't be a real woman unless you reject femininity.

So let's shake hands and pledge to follow our own unique truths wherever they lead... and to love ourselves.
Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls

Sheila

Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2007, 09:43:45 pm »
There are different woman out there. Some like to dress very girly and others like to dress casual and then others like to dress like slobs. There are more than the three I just suggested, I just used three examples. A TS is someone who feels like the opposite gender from what they were named at birth. A CD is one who doesn't feel like a woman but only wants to be one part time or even full time. They just don't  feel like the opposite gender. They like to dress the part. I have known a few girls who like to dress full time and they don't want to change their gender.
Sheila

TheBattler

Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2007, 09:47:50 pm »
There are different woman out there. Some like to dress very girly and others like to dress casual and then others like to dress like slobs. There are more than the three I just suggested, I just used three examples. A TS is someone who feels like the opposite gender from what they were named at birth. A CD is one who doesn't feel like a woman but only wants to be one part time or even full time. They just don't  feel like the opposite gender. They like to dress the part. I have known a few girls who like to dress full time and they don't want to change their gender.
Sheila

Sheila

 I sometimes wonder what is driving me and why I am not a simple CD. I feel content now knowing I will be trying HRT but and many ways I am just Al between male and female.

Alice

Offline Lisbeth

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Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2007, 12:47:53 pm »
um.. a CIA report??
LOL!
Yes, the CIA has been interested in this from the beginning.  Their question from the start has been, "What is the security risk of government officials or employees who are crossdressers?"

Posted on: December 19, 2007, 11:43:32 AM
As far as I have been able to figure out, TSs want to be the opposite gender all of the time, and CDs want to be the opposite gender part of the time.  Adding further criteria just confuses the issue.
What DO you do if you start out "just" CDing, but eventually find that you think you'd be much happier living that way permanently? I know the TS purists will rebel against that and say they're "not real TSs" to protect the clarity of their own diagnosis, but... I dunno how much politics like that helps those who are truly suffering, not clearly falling into one definition or the other.

~Kate~
I think my definition covers it.  If you want to be the opposite gender all the time, you are TS, whatever you wanted before.  The ICD-10 defines the difference the same way.  If you have continuously wanted to be the opposite gender for six months or more, they say you're a TS.
"Anyone who attempts to play the 'real transsexual' card should be summarily dismissed, as they are merely engaging in name calling rather than serious debate."
--Julia Serano

http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2011/09/transsexual-versus-transgender.html

Offline tekla

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Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2007, 01:33:59 pm »
I would think that the security problem of CDs is much more FBI than CIA.  If the CIA is studying it, its to find a way to use it to their benefit, i.e. use it to turn/use people.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...

Sheila

Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2007, 01:56:11 pm »
I don't know if the term transgenderist has ever come up. I do know some who claim to be a transgenderist. They are full time and yet they don't want to change their bodies. I know some can't because of health or money, but I do know some who can change if they were so inclined to. They pass very well and are women. They have changed their ID, but they have elected not to have surgery or take hormones.
Sheila

Offline Lisbeth

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Re: The Men Who Wear Womens Clothes
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2007, 02:30:42 pm »
I don't know if the term transgenderist has ever come up. I do know some who claim to be a transgenderist. They are full time and yet they don't want to change their bodies. I know some can't because of health or money, but I do know some who can change if they were so inclined to. They pass very well and are women. They have changed their ID, but they have elected not to have surgery or take hormones.
Sheila
That's an old term invented by Virginia Prince.  Today we call them non-ops.
"Anyone who attempts to play the 'real transsexual' card should be summarily dismissed, as they are merely engaging in name calling rather than serious debate."
--Julia Serano

http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2011/09/transsexual-versus-transgender.html

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