Most regulars on the forum will know that I have been on oestrogen and Anti - androgens for over a decade, and that I don't have any breast growth. I wondered if it might help if I took progesterone? I've not really tried it on any regular basis and I would also be open to any other suggestions to gain some form of breast growth without surgery?
What makes things worse is the more oestrogen I take the worse I get. Fat seems to accumilate on my belly area which sideways looks like a pregnant woman without breasts. When I started I thought HRT would work well on me as male puberty didn't really kick in properly when I was younger and I don't have a male voice, adams apple or body hair. On paper it looked like transition was right for me but the physical transition isn't happening!
I use a progesterone creme for about a week every month. Has it help? That I could not say because I have been using it from the beginning. But I am mimicking a female cycle so who knows.
That must be really frustrating. perhaps there is something going on with your endocrine system which makes you resistant to the effects of hormones of any kind?
Have you talked to an endo about this? I think they might have some ideas. It might be a simple as adjusting your dosage or changing meds.
Quote from: Nicky on March 02, 2010, 01:34:33 PM
That must be really frustrating. perhaps there is something going on with your endocrine system which makes you resistant to the effects of hormones of any kind?
Have you talked to an endo about this? I think they might have some ideas. It might be a simple as adjusting your dosage or changing meds.
The endo couldn't find anything wrong. I have tried changing meds many times over the years but it hasn't made any difference. It's very frustrating indeed.
I've only ever been on oral HRT and patches and I wondered if shots or implants would have more effect? in the U.K shots are not legally licenced here and I'm having problems with the red tape trying to get on implants.
I asked my doctor about adding progesterone to my treatment and she told me she normally likes to wait a year to see how estrogen does. If development isn't adequate she recommends progesterone being added. It might be worth talking to your doctor about.
Quote from: Dana Lane on March 02, 2010, 06:07:41 PM
I asked my doctor about adding progesterone to my treatment and she told me she normally likes to wait a year to see how estrogen does. If development isn't adequate she recommends progesterone being added. It might be worth talking to your doctor about.
What is strange is that when I get my blood test results I have reasonable progesterone levels showing anyway even though I don't actually take it. I wish I could find a really experienced endo in the U.K who could work it out better. My endo just says there's nothing I can do to improve my fat distribution and breast growth unless I have surgery.
You also need to remember that I have been on HRT for many years so it's not related to any time scale.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on March 02, 2010, 06:12:51 PM
What is strange is that when I get my blood test results I have reasonable progesterone levels showing anyway even though I don't actually take it. I wish I could find a really experienced endo in the U.K who could work it out better. My endo just says there's nothing I can do to improve my fat distribution and breast growth unless I have surgery.
You also need to remember that I have been on HRT for many years so it's not related to any time scale.
I sure hope you are able to find a solution! Good luck!
Quote from: Dana Lane on March 02, 2010, 06:31:14 PM
I sure hope you are able to find a solution! Good luck!
That was the reason for this thread. To pick people brains and experience to find a solution.
Post Merge: March 03, 2010, 09:22:12 AM
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on March 03, 2010, 09:13:49 AM
I am older,50's, and had been on estrogen patches and relatively low dose spiro for 5-6 years. My mother has very large breasts (I mention for reference). I had fairly good growth, B cup, but a bit tubular. 4 or 5 months ago started estrogen injections because I was sick of the residue from patches, and injections of medroxyprogesterone. I am finding a renewed sensitivity and they are definitely "rounder" and with maybe a bit more outward projection. I've noticed that the actual "hole?" in the nipple has become more defined and nipple itself is larger. Unfortunately, the breasts are still too far apart: as most t-girls' are. The medroxyprogesterone (depo-provera) injections are expensive, but I think well worth it.
All injectable hormones are not licenced in the U.K, so unless I buy the stuff illegally from outside of the U.K I'm not going to find out if injections will work better than tablets and patches or not.
You say you had very good breast growth? everyone seems to apart from me! which is so frustrating.
I defnintly think you should try progesterone if you havn't already. Might as well try all options avaialable. What about topical breast growth creams? I know a lot are BS but some people report minor results from them, they might help some.
Have you considered breast implants? If you can't do it hormonaly, maybe saline is an option?
The only other thing I can think of, though you may have done this already, is try different forms of estrogen or anti androgens. But I think you are right to look for another endo, get a second opinion.
Just something I would note. I take finasteride/propecia for hair loss. On its own it can cause some breast growth. Perhaps something like that might help. I don't really know though, don't want to load up on heaps of hormones you don't really need.
Quote from: Nicky on March 03, 2010, 01:35:26 PM
I defnintly think you should try progesterone if you havn't already. Might as well try all options avaialable. What about topical breast growth creams? I know a lot are BS but some people report minor results from them, they might help some.
Have you considered breast implants? If you can't do it hormonaly, maybe saline is an option?
The only other thing I can think of, though you may have done this already, is try different forms of estrogen or anti androgens. But I think you are right to look for another endo, get a second opinion.
Just something I would note. I take finasteride/propecia for hair loss. On its own it can cause some breast growth. Perhaps something like that might help. I don't really know though, don't want to load up on heaps of hormones you don't really need.
I did try cycogest about 10 years ago but I didn't find any benefit. I've also tried so many different types of oestrogen since 1998, I would think in the region of about 15 different types. I have tried creams as well. Also finesteride...
Breast implants was a big consideration in 2005 and I almost got them done (even went for the pre med!) but the only option at that time was silcone. I still thought I could improve things naturally with more experimenting with medication but now I realise it's fairly doubtful that anything is going to work.
There is one other thing, Human growth hormone. You could investigate this. I remember Mister on this site used it to help increase the size of their 'member'. Applying it to your breasts might help them grow.
I think it is pricy, but maybe a possibility?
Quote from: Nicky on March 03, 2010, 01:49:16 PM
There is one other thing, Human growth hormone. You could investigate this. I remember Mister on this site used it to help increase the size of their 'member'. Applying it to your breasts might help them grow.
I think it is pricy, but maybe a possibility?
I have a friend who is experimenting with something similar but there could also be dangers involved.
Perhaps you are deficient in Human growth hormone? Symptoms include delayed puberty (you said you never really developed as a male) and gaining fat about your middle. It sounds like you might fit that ticket.
At least you could get tested for it.
If you were in any country other than the UK I'd have an answer for you... but since you cant leagly acquire injectables *shrugs*
Progesterone in oil shots work great, but are not available in any market, they must be compounded by a qualified pharmacy (with a sterile room).... the moxihydroxiwhateverthehell shots don't work nearly as well and seem to throw people (Including myself) off kilter to say the least... So be careful.
There is an OTC product called GABA. Gamma-aminobutyric acid naturally stimulates the anterior pituitary gland to secrete higher levels of human growth hormone. And it has been recommended as a supplement to older girls.
I have been taking it for about two months now. I sleep better and I really think it helps. I seem to be having some growth now, that stopped before I began taking it.
Not sure if it is available in the UK, or not.
Please note the following from the Prometrium web site:
"PROMETRIUM® is bio-identical to progesterone, which means it is structurally identical to the naturally occurring progesterone in your body. As you can see below, the physical structures of progesterone and PROMETRIUM® are the same. There is no evidence that bio-identical hormones are safer or more effective than other progestogens."
Some people like to disparage the non-bioidenticals, parroting the lines of the current natural drug Svengalis selling their wares to "green" upwardly mobile American housewives. It becomes almost a religion to some. I really don't want to flog the issue, but I get upset when people try to insert some "new age, good feeling" beliefs for good old fashioned science. Here in the US of A we have far too many people who do that on any number of wacko social issues. Look at the Prometrium statement-"no evidence that it is safer or more effective". Who ya gonna believe, the people who make it, stand behind it, and sell it, or someone who "heard something" somewhere and is now a "true believer" who wants to broadcast it on the internet and denounce the heathen bastards who dare to disagree? If and when I am presented with good and sufficient evidence, I would be more than willing to switch.
I've spoke directly to people on another forum who have taken prometrium (along with a whole range of other forms) and they all swear by it, that's all the real evidence I need.
Before you start monkeying around with hgh and your pituitary gland, is an orchiectomy a possibility? I would hate for you to kick yourself into male puberty after all these years. I know the national health plan doesn't cover it there, but apparently they aren't particularly expensive in private pay. I know 10+ years has probbaly reduced the chance of that a lot but it's just a thought...
Many thanks for all your suggestions. I am going to have to go illegal for a while as all these suggested products are not available, licenced or condoned by the NHS in the U.K. So far I've not even been able to get HRT shots or implants here and it is a constant battle with the authorities to access any kind of medication relating to gender dysphoria, other than patches and some selected types of HRT in tablet form only.
NB another thing to consider (and this may be from way out in left field and not the least pertinent, but...). I have read (somewhere) that taking too much estrogen (sorry, oestrogen for the British speakers :)) can cause it to change to DHT in the body. DHT will block the growth of breast tissue.
As I said this may not be applicable, especially where you state that you have tried many forms and doses over the years. I know nothing about HGH, but from what Nicky et al say, it may be something to look into.
I wish you luck in finding that magic key and may the breast fairy come to visit you and bless you with all you could want. I'm still in a holding pattern waiting to be able to start HRT with no certainty of getting there. Right now my biggest hold back is high blood pressure, have to get that down before doc will let me start. :(
Deanna