I have a male body. Several years ago I came to accept those periods when I feel female and I started thinking about presenting as female. But the desire to do that never lasted more than a few weeks or months and then I would feel more male again.
I've been through this switching between feeling male and female enough times now to know that this is just how it is for me.
Does anyone else experience this? How do you deal with presenting yourself when you are in the different phases? My main area of frustration is when I am in female mode. Then I feel like changing my body to be more feminine.
I understand what you mean. It was the same for me. For a few months I would feel feminine (I have a female body), but then for a few months I would think I was transgendered and I wanted to be male. I have now realized that I'm androgyne and I don't feel pressured to pick one. The hard part is accepting your body as it is. I think for a lot of us, what we have realized is that if we did change our bodies and transitioned to the opposite sex, we'd still be in the same boat. Sometimes we feel more female, sometimes we feel more male and no matter what body we have, that's how we'll feel.
As far as presenting yourself is concerned, that's up to you. If what you are doing now works for you, I would stick with it. One thing you should do is see a gender therapist. Another thing is to really sit down and consider all your options and their consequences and how you would feel about said consequences.
Also, once I realized that I didn't have to pick between the two binaries of male and female, I became much more comfortable with myself. For me, I like to wear skirts, but I wish that my upper body looked male...a complete mix of both. But then again, today, I don't feel particularly feminine at all. It just depends. You said that you go through male and female phases...do you think you might be bigendered? There are several people on here who are and they would be excellent people to talk to.
I hope I was helpful! I wish you the best of luck finding yourself!!!
I'm similar, I go through periods where I feel really feminine, and then not so feminine. I don't think I ever feel like a male anymore, perhaps my testosterone is dropping with age and this is affecting this?
Like Jaimey, when I came to the conclusion that androgyne describes me (for the time being anyway it does the job) I became much more comfortable with myself. I still had fluctuations in how masculine and feminine but I still feel like I am an androgyne at all times, much of that confusion vanished. It does affect how I present though. When I feel more femanine I just take more care with my appearance, might put on a fresh coat of nail polish, wear my nicest and tightest clothes. Otherwise I can be a bit casual.
Jaimey,
How do you define bigendered? Based on your description I would have thought you are bigendered.
On a sliding scale from moment to moment. Like on of those clear plastic bars with the oil and water that slosh back and forth. Except, now imagine that the oil can and does mix with the water, so that they are homogenized together.
Hey MichelleT,
If my avatar wasn't blatantly obvious, I'm(we're) one of those bigendered folks as was being mentioned. Let me take a few moments to ask you a couple questions that will add some clarificaition hopefully.
Do you feel like you change feeling feminine to masculine very quickly or kind of like a transition from one to the other. Do you feel like you're always representing a male and female unmixed all the time? Fluid Androgynes flow from one part of the gender scale to another part based on their current situation. They have a single sense of self. This fluid motion in some cases can occur infrequently over the course of days or weeks. Bigender people or two-spirited, on the other hand or essentially a male and female existing together in one body and at any given moment one or the other is being represented. They have a dual sense of self.
I urge you to look into further exploration of these types and some of the other androgyne types. You'll find something that fits you close enough to put you at ease.
Good luck and we look foward to hearing more from you.
Don't hesitate to ask any more questions you have.
Marq and Mia
Hi Michelle,
Like NickSister, there are times I feel very feminine and others where I just feel "normal"...which is not really male but slightly closer to male than female, like 60/40 to the male side. It is a very very rare occassion when I feel like a full-fledged member of the He-man-women-haters Club, usually followed by several days of WTF was I thinking?
The last couple of weeks I have been in the extremely feminine mode...almost to the point of staying home from work just so I can wear the clothes I really want. (Sad really, as I can think of many other reasons to stay home from work, and most are much more interesting.) Still, I know the pendulum will swing back soon, and I will start dressing and behaving a bit more manly. Maybe I should take an IQ test and, once and for all, find out if I am smarter as a "male" or as a "female"...hmmm. (Note: I put male and female in quotes because while I am neither, that is the best way to describe how I feel.
As far as changing my body...the thoughts in my head fluctuate between getting electro and breast augmentation to cutting my hair and regrowing my beard. I can't wait for the day when we can have completely interchangable body parts and I can change my body the same way I change my clothes. (I know, by then I will be pushing up daisies, but one can dream can't they?)
......Laurry
I travel between! somedays i feel more girly than others and otherdays I get all manly, but its like a mixture of both as i travel between one or the other. Most of the time i kinda sit there in the middle but it just depends on how i am that day! To be totaly honest i dont care which side of the "scale" i'm at i'm still the same old me... well not that old ;D
<3
Quote from: MichelleT on September 27, 2007, 05:31:27 PM
Jaimey,
How do you define bigendered? Based on your description I would have thought you are bigendered.
I hope Marq & Mia answered your question about being bigendered. I have a singular identity. I am always Jaimey, no matter how I feel. Perhaps 'effeminate' is a better description than feminine. I will never be able to identify as male or female, but sometimes I am more effeminate than other times and vice versa. For me, when I feel more effeminate, I'm not identifying as female. I can't identify as being either male or female. I am always androgyne. That's the best that I can describe it. :)
Quote from: MichelleT on September 27, 2007, 10:04:51 AM
I have a male body. Several years ago I came to accept those periods when I feel female and I started thinking about presenting as female. But the desire to do that never lasted more than a few weeks or months and then I would feel more male again.
I've been through this switching between feeling male and female enough times now to know that this is just how it is for me.
Does anyone else experience this? How do you deal with presenting yourself when you are in the different phases? My main area of frustration is when I am in female mode. Then I feel like changing my body to be more feminine.
Hi Michelle T , I do recognize a lot in the way you write about it. ( the only difference is I have a female body) For me pretty amazing to read ( cause I believe every individual does have her/his own experiences, even more in this kind of feelings ).
My frustration does have some in common with yours; the phases whenn I would love to be more man
are damn hard. During that kind of times; A lot of emotions are flowing through me. But it ends, and than I'm totally in to skirts and stuff like that ???. But inside I'm also the same person..well hope you can follow me. How I deal with it? not easy. I accept it; but it's hard to express myself. Still trying to find my way in it. And at the moment I don't feel comfortable to write more in public :embarrassed: sorry. Cause it feels so damn personal.
By the way it's my first post ever about it. I did feel to give response, cause your topic is for me a kind of relief to read so thanx :-*
I seem to slide some on around a 6 month basis, as to presentation/expression.
First part of 2005 was a feminine period of time.
Last half was masculine.
First part of 2006 feminine.
Last part masculine.
Fist part of 2007 feminine.
Last part masculine.
I dont know why. Maybe something to do with how the seasons make me feel. Not sure.
KK
Quote from: Ken/Kendra on October 08, 2007, 01:49:47 PM
I seem to slide some on around a 6 month basis, as to presentation/expression.
First part of 2005 was a feminine period of time.
Last half was masculine.
First part of 2006 feminine.
Last part masculine.
Fist part of 2007 feminine.
Last part masculine.
I dont know why. Maybe something to do with how the seasons make me feel. Not sure.
KK
You know, I was thinking about the same thing the other day. During the spring and summer, I tend to wear skirts and cute shoes and more makeup, but during the fall (especially) and winter, I wear cut up jeans, a black sweatjacket, my chucks (wonderful unisex shoes), no makeup, etc. That's pretty interesting.
What a relief to read.
I'm the same person all the time, but i do change between feeling masculine or feminine, and sometimes it even surprises me, exciting and frustrating at the same time.
What scares me is that one time, when i talking with my female friends, we came into the topic "how we would be if we were men". I was sitting and trying to imagine myself as a man, and i really liked it. I got all frustrated about being a woman, and at that moment i just wished i could change body , like you change your hair. I hope someday in the future you can be a man on monday and a woman on tuesday, if you know what i mean, it would be fantastic.
But on some rare occasions i feel extremely feminine and love it, but otherwise i feel like i fail to be a woman at times, i've tried wearing some really feminine clothes where i felt like a transvestite, there's often a feeling of being akward, maybe because i'm not wearing exactly what i would like to wear of girly clothes, i don't know, but it's frustrating.
Am i androgyne or bigendered? Btw, sorry if my english is poor.
Quote from: ImKim on October 10, 2007, 11:11:24 AM
What a relief to read.
I'm the same person all the time, but i do change between feeling masculine or feminine, and sometimes it even surprises me, exciting and frustrating at the same time.
What scares me is that one time, when i talking with my female friends, we came into the topic "how we would be if we were men". I was sitting and trying to imagine myself as a man, and i really liked it. I got all frustrated about being a woman, and at that moment i just wished i could change body , like you change your hair. I hope someday in the future you can be a man on monday and a woman on tuesday, if you know what i mean, it would be fantastic.
But on some rare occasions i feel extremely feminine and love it, but otherwise i feel like i fail to be a woman at times, i've tried wearing some really feminine clothes where i felt like a transvestite, there's often a feeling of being akward, maybe because i'm not wearing exactly what i would like to wear of girly clothes, i don't know, but it's frustrating.
Am i androgyne or bigendered? Btw, sorry if my english is poor.
It's always a relief when you find out you aren't alone, isn't it? :D I felt the same way too. I COMPLETELY understand what you are talking about. It took me a LONG time before I started liking cute women's clothing...it always felt like I was a little kid playing dress up. Actually, with a lot of clothes it still does feel that way. It's only been in the past year probably that I've actually wanted to wear skirts and things and I wear them because I think they are cute, not because they are women's clothes, if that makes any sense. I also used to think about wanting to be male and that I wished I was (even as a child). It would be nice if we could be whatever we wanted, when we wanted.
Based on what you said, I would say you are androgyne. People who are bigendered have two separate senses of self and you said that you are the same person all the time. I'm the same person all the time, but sometimes I am more effeminate and other times I'm more neutral. But the best way to find out is to talk to people and to search within yourself until you find the identity that feels right to you. :) Btw...you're English is fine! :D
Quote from: ImKim on October 10, 2007, 11:11:24 AM
But on some rare occasions i feel extremely feminine and love it, but otherwise i feel like i fail to be a woman at times, i've tried wearing some really feminine clothes where i felt like a transvestite, there's often a feeling of being akward, maybe because i'm not wearing exactly what i would like to wear of girly clothes, i don't know, but it's frustrating.
I feel quite the same sometimes. (But the worst is red lipstick, eye make-up is fine) Lately, I got the feeling that the problem is that I cannot differentiate between things I think attractive on women and things I would like to wear.
This is an interesting topic -- it made me look inside and think.
As I transition, it's like a rollercoaster -- you go from a high place to a low place, but in between you oscillate up and down hills changing level and speed.
I find transitioning from male to female to be that way. each time I oscillate to female, I feel moreso than last time, and when I oscillate back towards male, I don't rebound as far.
Maybe the metaphor is more like bungie jumping... i don't know--
Karen
i want to be a girl
but it kinda 60/40 = girl/boy
i love to sex with girl
i never think of sex with men, its gross
somehowm i want to be girl in daily life..
i want to heart break any men, flirt then leave them
girl gets more attention, especially cute girl..
i think the human who born as a cute girl was so lucky...
if im a cute girl, i will find a rich man and be rich easily
I hate that roller coaster, I need to transition to stop them
There was a recent thread on bigender you may find useful at:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,80796.msg564590.html#msg564590 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,80796.msg564590.html#msg564590)
Also a new bigender forum at http://www.bigender.net (http://www.bigender.net)
I am a bigendered biologic male on transition level HRT and live my life like a slowly swinging pendulum. It is very important to me to have both a strong male AND a strong female presentation. But I get edgy staying in either extreme for extended periods and am uncomfortable combining the two into a confusing or genderlessly unidentifiable blend. There is always a restlessness, something tugging at me to pull the other way.
My best attempt at self identification is that I am a woman who prefers to express herself as a guy but is unwilling to give up her femininity. My hair is styled masculinely long, I shave my body, and I am a dozen electro sessions into removing the gray the laser didn't get on my face. Nothing that locks me into presenting one way or the other. I present as a guy most of the time but find my balance in spending a day a week out and about people as my female self.
I talk about myself in plural, refer to my male and female self in the third person, can stand back and see the same situation form two completely different viewpoints. And my gender flip flops regardless of how I am presenting myself. I compartmentalize my emotions, my strengths and weaknesses to align with my gender, capitalizing on my abilities to face my life and apparently coping strategy I developed when I suppressed my female self as a teenager. But this psychological expression alone is not sufficient and it is vital for me to physically express myself as both of my genders.
I have that same feeling all the time. I hate the mental state it leaves me in too. I feel messed/mixed up and so confused until the period is over.
Mostly I just dress male during those periods and it helps (once I get a chest binder it'll help even more) and since most of my friends/anyone i really care about opinion-wise know and don't care when i'm in male mode. being born female i suppose helps too since its more accepted for a woman to dress manly than reverse... :)
I can sort of relate to this, even though I don't consider myself an androgyne, I am most definitely androgynous, I'm male in my mind, and in daily life I am mostly female (since I never went through any "transitioning" dealing with work, etc. I have to use my birth name, which is female). I gave up awhile ago with feeling "mixed up" about it and just accepted that this is who I am. I'm kind of lucky in that I can switch between outward appearances and roles.
Quote from: Aryk on September 01, 2010, 05:33:29 PM
since most of my friends/anyone i really care about opinion-wise know and don't care when i'm in male mode. being born female i suppose helps too since its more accepted for a woman to dress manly than reverse... :)
And I find this very true - if I'm in "female mode" but dressed like a guy, people seem to accept that just fine. Especially where I live where there seems to be a high percentage of the female population dressing in more androgynous attire (think fleece, flannel, cargo pants/short ... "outdoorsey" stuff).
Most of the time I'm fairly in-between, but I do get times when I feel male or female. When I get dysphoria attacks it's usually either towards wanting to look neutral or male. It's odd because I always feel inconsistent, wanting to correct pronoun use different ways on different days and all that, so I tend to just encourage people gently towards the neutral 'they' and 'person'. Talk more about it when less tired. :P
I've identified myself as bigender to a lot of friends and colleagues and it makes a lot of sense to them given the polarity of my moods. From what I've read it's something that is still being newly discovered and I was surprised at how there's really little to read on it on the web. I know that I'm very comfortable being biologically a boy but I like being able to express myself as a girl too. I know it's not just for the thrill of it, as I seem to slip into being a girl naturally moreso than most... and I know that I'm not androgyne because I like being polar in terms of my visual expression with fashion.
As a counterpoint to Marq and Mia, I wanted to point out that not all who identify as bigender are multiple systems. I shift from feeling male and feeling female, but I am still me the whole time. What does change is the image I present to the world, via clothing, gesture, voice and gait, but I carry with me the same thoughts, beliefs and experiences whether I'm presenting as Paul or as Brin.
I can feel female, even in my male presentation, or male in my female presentation. The gender I'm identifying with is purely mental, although, I prefer the presentation to match up when possible. However, I almost never feel like a mix of the two, and only very rarely have any kind of ambiguity in my presentation.
The one thing I've learned in 6 months of bigender.net's existence is that there's more than one way to be bigendered. (Please know that I don't mean any offense to Marq/Mia, any other bigender-identified multiple systems, people who feel and live the way I do and choose another label, nor do I propose to speak for any bigender person other than myself).
Thanks for telling me about bigender.net.
I'm the same person...but this A/G thing is so...new to me, that it is as if there are two parts of me having a conversation in my head about what to put on.
But I'm honestly thinking this is part of the process of, well, integrating something I hadn't consciously acknowledged, and that over time it'll be less like a male and a female part having a conversation.
Hehe, my male side, not just a jungian animus anymore! ;D
I'm inclined not to get into picturing myself as bifurcated, I already have a dissociative disorder, we don't need to pile an alternate personality on top.
I feel less vulnerable in men's winter clothing, like I'm sort of my own knight in shining armor, while men's summer clothes are just generally made of better materials, and cost less.
The clothes make the A/G? *shrug*And my recent must-get-haircut obsession, don't even ask.....
I'm a mass of conflicting impulses and mini-obsessions ATM...it's most annoying.
im a lesbian girl that trap in man body..hahaha
i be a man when i play football. but at night when i go to club i be a drag queen hahaha
Quote from: rite_of_inversion on October 21, 2010, 08:20:12 PM
I'm a mass of conflicting impulses and mini-obsessions ATM...it's most annoying.
Wow, does this hit home for me. I just started noticing this about myself but it is has been almost unbearable for my wife for months. There two ways to look at everything, whether it matters or not. I can't give a straight answer about anything anymore. It's like my male and female selfs are trying to talk over each other. I'm so busy trying to form an opinion I forget my wife is even there! I have got to learn to regain my balance like I did all those years I kept my female self locked away.
My life is like a river winding between two territories - male and female and trying to understand why. Some periods in the female territory are short perhaps only a few minutes of what feels like insanity while others seem to wane for days as I struggle to live the life of my male body. One of those moments of insanity was trying on my mother in laws body shaper which I evidently stretched for she let me know I had done it.
I've always felt strange working around or with women, particularly those of my own age. While I find them attractive I find myself now understanding that I wanted to be one of them.
I recently read Lynn Conway's articles transgender and I came to Susan's Place while looking for info on bra sizing as I decided the gynecomastia I've had since childhood might feel better wearing a bra. I would like to understand better why I have the fluctuations between male and female feelings as well as if physical conditions I've endured all my life were due to a form of transgender mix at birth.
I'm too old to do SRS and my physical appearance would not feminize too well. Although at the moment having a fully operating female genitalia would be a blessing just for going to the bathroom.
Quote from: 28BROOK on October 29, 2010, 12:31:37 AM
...
I'm too old to do SRS and my physical appearance would not feminize too well. Although at the moment having a fully operating female genitalia would be a blessing just for going to the bathroom.
Who told you that you are too old for SRS? For the most part no one is too old. Health reason may not allow it. And some choice not to for their own reasons. But you are never to old.
for the past year or so, I've been internally feminine all the time. that's just who I am now.
I tried thinking of myself as both male and female at different times, but it made me feel constantly out of sorts... like I was floating adrift. it took me a while to really appreciate how differently my self-concept is from my presentation. when people look at me they don't see a girl... and that's not always a bad thing.
Little things - eating popcorn or chips and finding I am eating them one chip or kernel at a time like my wife, rather than wolfing them down like a I do when feeling normally male. Hand movements when I am doing certain things get different when I am feeling feminine. Emotional tears while watching something moving or reading something moving when other times it wouldn't bother me. Getting pissed when I am in male mode - this is freaking out my significant other because when I am in female mode I'm not exploding over things.
Brook
yes. About a year ago I settled that I was essentially bigender and an androgyne. I have just one personality that shifts between male and female. The shifts can happen anytime and last as long as a month or so. When that occurs I seem to gravitate towards apparel that represents the gender I am feeling. For a long time I thought I had a split personality as my behavior can vary with the morphs Luckily I found other people who identify as bigender and through communication have come to the realization that, no, I'm not mentally ill that I'm just dealing with what my mind presents and expressing them. It has been a long strange trip but everyday I feel more secure about who I am. This forum and bigender.net has helped immensely and so have all of you. peace
Hi,
Interesting ?.
Tho for me im wired both ways . you really do need to know who you are on the inside . for me that was easy.
For me it was not about the clothes as in dressing to be like a female , it was from very early i totaly hated male clothes , of cause now my clothes are womens & yes that denotes me as a woman . thats the out side taken care of .
Its when you look deeper in side how your wired , that i knew from age 10 as a child , names had no meaning at all .
You just know. to a certin point i swing back & forth. & im comforable with that , its never been a detail iv had to contend with just knowing who you are & what you are.
There is one thing i did not understand tho i was never a real male . this sort of buged me i get so far like i understand males & then the door slams shut like im not ment to know . so i never related to males nore do now .
The other side i relate fully with women tho there is just one miner detail that ill never be able to do...yes my pet subject i dont have my ...WOMB...thats the hurtfull part my loss . other than that im happy,
Having had s r s & b a 07 & im 63 now is it to late no, nore is it for others who are around my age ,
except my looks now thats another matter & really its not a issue , because iv been accepted as a full woman .
so what more can i ask.
& it does take time to under stand your self, dont be in a hurry just find your true self & if you can enjoy the trip .
...noeleena...
Yeah I understand completely. Some days I want to present as male, and other days as female (though those occur less often).
Yes...all the time. And the funny thing is....whatever kind of music I am listening to seems to effect it!!
There is shifting, with genderless being the normal most of the time. There are times when I seem to be not so much either/or but rather a wider range that I can feel the outer edges of. There have been times where both male and female (as I perceive them) occupy me. This is confusing and conflicting most times. I suppose that happens because I'm really not sure what either are beyond the stereotypes.
I tend to think of myself as more female than male, maybe because I know how disgusting males can be. I'm bio male, present as male around the 'guys', and can be very testosterone driven. OK, way to driven. But I feel more like a girl who will kick your ass, than a guy who puffs his chest out as a threat.
I'm pretty sure that I'll be starting a low dose HRT (now I've jinxed it) next month, I've passed the tests and jumped through the hoops. My objective for now is to stop or slow the T driven attitudes. Who knows though......I just know the dysphoria around this has to stop. It gets out of control and when it does, so do I.
For me, it's between male and androgyne, not female. But I don't think I'm bigender, just somewhere a little bit sticky on the scale. :P
I alternate, and in almost any condition I feel simultaneously rather feminine and masculine in sort of a gender stew. I'm quite comfortable at this point identifying as bigender and genderqueer, although I happen to be transitioning MTF.
I oscillate a lot myself.
There are times when I feel like I'd like to present more as female than as my birth sex.
I find that when I'm home alone, I'm prone to dress in skirts and the like without bothering with makeup and breast forms. The genderqueer thing really works for me. But, I don't quite feel that such an expression is "safe" out among the great unwashed general public.
I wore a suit to work this morning w/o makeup, to the complete freak-out of the entire office.
A co-worker said, "You look like an FTM."
I have this a lot, and I'm still trying to figure out where I identify. There are days when I'm happy with my body (female) and then there are days when Im happy with the lower half of my body but I want my upper half to be male. I get moods where I want to dress up in skirts or dresses, and then moods when I want to wear my binder, t-shirts and jeans. I've considered transitioning, and other days I'm happy to stay female.
It's a very confusing state to be in at the moment :(
I think I'm in a phase right now where I don't mind being male (bodied), but I hate not being female (bodied).
I'm a biological mass of conflicting gender and related emotions. ;)
This was the first thread and replies i read when i joined yesterday and i realised my years of trying to find a group i could relate to where over, i kept on finding myself saying this could be me. Do find myself switching between genders a lot of the time, dont always like it cos when "she" visits she takes over and the more i try to fight these feelings the harder it gets. Have spent a lot of my life wondering why the heck i just cant be a normal male, then this year after i took congiati test for the second time and realising how alike me and my wife are it dawned on me that if i wanted to beat this thing i would have to rewire my brain, so held up the white flag and nowadays just try to go with the flow. Am currently taking various herbs and using pumps to try to increase boob size, probably wasting my time, but i feel untill i do get half decent size breasts i will never truly be the person i am ment to be.
Quote from: MichelleT on September 27, 2007, 10:04:51 AM
I have a male body. Several years ago I came to accept those periods when I feel female and I started thinking about presenting as female. But the desire to do that never lasted more than a few weeks or months and then I would feel more male again.
I've been through this switching between feeling male and female enough times now to know that this is just how it is for me.
Does anyone else experience this? How do you deal with presenting yourself when you are in the different phases? My main area of frustration is when I am in female mode. Then I feel like changing my body to be more feminine.
I deal with this often, though I tend to feel more male than female (I was born female). I normally present femaleish. It's hard to present like anything other than a girl with my bone structure, the sound of my voice and my learned mannerisms from living as a woman. A few people who are close to me can tell when I am feeling more guyish because some of my mannerisms will relax and be very guylike, however on most days I feel about 80% guy 20% female. I normally wear clothes a guy would wear if he had my shape such as a video game t-shirt and jeans. I have my hair cut sort of androgynous it's a style I've seen on both scene guys and girls, and most days I wear a blue golf cap (which I call my pip hat that reminds me of pip from south park). When I wear the blue cap I usually tell people I am a boy that day and they all giggle. Most people don't understand my genderqueerness. Most people either think FTM, a normal girl or "confused".
The days I feel most feminine, though seldom, I usually play with make-up more, put scented oil on, etc. I've noticed with me feeling more like a girl can either be triggered by a specific situation or my hormonal cycle. Sometimes it happens seemingly at random.
Balancing the two is what works best for me.
I'm realizing as time goes by that I fit both into the androgyne definition as well as the bigender definition, depending on which mode i'm in at the moment.
I'm a bio-male, and when i'm in boy mode I still have a sense of female about me (based on my thoughts and actions), but I do not wish to dress en femme or wear makeup. In fact, i'm kind of repulsed at that idea. I see this as the genderfluid part of me.
But my gender can majorly flip flop when triggered by context, which is more of the bigender definition. And these flip flops seem to be getting worse over time.
I had a recent episode where i gender flopped into girl mode for a solid 3 days before returning to boy mode. I've never had a flip flop last so long, or be so powerful. And it was triggered by a simple thought the night before.
This topic interests me and I read all the comments. Haha. I usually identify as a transsexual and right now sort of do. I have been full time for like two and a half years, until recently I went to a job interview and went job hunting as a boy because for over a year I looked for a job as a female and had one interview and had not been employed but when I apply two places as a boy I get one interview. It is ridiculous how there seems to be some bias when choosing applicants for a job. But anyway, I sometimes now be in boy mode when at home or going to the store, well I have cut my hair so it takes more work now to pass as a female, but I think I look very good as a boy and sometimes felt like I wanted to be a boy while being full time but I don't think living as a woman has been a mistake, I still am a very feminine person and love dressing up and doing my makeup and shopping for girls clothes and wearing cute girls outfits that match and such, but I also think I look good as a boy, so I don't know, I am a bit confused and I feel like my transsexual friends which are many many of my friends would not accept me not being strict transsexual.
A good friend of mine when I was talking about this with him, asked if maybe I was androgynous and I had always thought androgynous meant someone who is in between male and female or someone who you cannot tell which gender they are, and I thought genderqueer meant someone who expresses themselves in a way that is not considered within traditional gender roles, and I thought two spirited always meant another term for genderqueer, so I had not heard of these other definitions, and I did not know what bigendered was.
I do not like to appear in between, I like to pass as a girl and do my makeup and dress myself in a manner that I feel pretty and pass, and otherwise I like to look like a guy, and even if I look like a feminine guy as in guyish makeup or something and tight clothes and styled hair because I am a feminine person, but I do not feel comfortable where I don't pass as a girl, or don't look like a regularish guy, if that makes any sense.
Well anyway I am glad I have a place to talk about these things without being judged and where people will actually listen to me! You all seem very nice and accepting. So y'all are fabulous as hale! : ) <3
Wow, I've never seen so many accounts of being bi-gendered!
I guess I could accept myself being bi-gendered, except...
It's much harder to be bi-gendered if you are a genetic male, especially if you shift more frequently (sometimes I shift within a few weeks, sometimes a few days), since it's much less acceptable for a genetic male to look and act female.
When I'm female, I naturally act girly, talk either softly or if allowed, with a female voice, I feel like a different person, and the level can be quite striking at times. Then of course, the male side could be pretty guyish too, so the polarization is pretty big (so much that they go beyond "feminine" and "masculine", in that I have to present as one or the other in order to fully express that "self".
My preference has mostly been about being a woman, only sometimes I accept being male (but still there's that part of me feeling bad about not being female)
I didn't start uncontrollably shifting until the past 3 years, the shifts were as bad as that I'd shift as much as twice within a day, now they are more like a few days or a week in between. My shifts BTW now are desiring to be female intensely (or being female given the chance) and just being uncontrollably guyish and accepting it within that while.
When I'm in the "guy" mode and accept it, I can be quite guyish, though it doesn't spill over into certain things like "accepting my genitalia", desiring to have sex, or changing much of my appearance since the voice does more for the "male persona" than my looks.
Before I started shifting, I was positive in wanting to transition and be female (for about 9 years), despite how masculine I could get.
My desire has been to fully embrace the feminine woman's world, and I feel that my "male side" is going to prevent that from happening because I won't be able to build a "female life" if I'm male part of the time.
I would much rather not be bi-gendered because of what I believe in hindering my ability to make a life for myself if I am presenting as more than one person (I already have felt frustrated in trying to make TG friends presenting as more than one person and since i believe people can't tolerate different identities since they are initially only attracted to one identity) and also that I feel like my "male side" is hindering my female self from achieving her own potential, and that shifting identities prevents me from taking full advantage of either side. Anyway, my preference 80-90% of the time is in being a woman, and my desire has also included seeing myself as "one of the girls" and in that I can interact with others the way I have always wanted to as a woman.
We have a lot of similarities and some important differences, Katelyn. For me, I don't see it being particularly harder as a bigender bioM but I am a pretty andro 5' 10" 146 pound beanpole. I passed fine as girl before HRT and fine as a guy after a year on a full transition level regimen. My gender switches constantly, my brain picking and choosing the blue or pink glasses, whichever is most appropriate to help me cope with the situation at hand during the course of my day. Often flip-flopping back and forth in mid sentence, for the most part this is transparent to me but it drives my wife crazy! Looking back on my 50 years over a year and a half of therapy, it seems this was the only form of expression I allowed my female self when I locked her away as a teenager. It is such a well-practiced behavior, so integral to who I am, I switch gender regardless of how I am presenting.
But the important thing I discovered, the missing piece that nearly drove me insane or to suicide, is that psychological expression alone is not sufficient for me. I need to physically express who I am as both male and female. I was clinically diagnosed to be dysphoric about my maleness to a level indicating SRS AND dysphoric about my femaleness to a level indicating SRS. Like you, it is vital for me to present solidly as a guy and a girl to "express self" and the "polarization is pretty big" - think Clint Eastwood and Alyssa Milano. HRT brought my GD under control but presenting in public as female a day a week is a balance that has been working for over a year. I pretty much go anywhere, do anything a cisgender female does. More than once a week and my guy self starts to grumble; less than once a week and my girl starts to whine.
I also spent a period of time wondering if I was transsexual. An honest soul-searching conversation between my male and female selfs made it clear that had been a case of the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction. My guy self would no more prevent me from fully embracing the 'feminine woman's world" than my girl self prevents me from fully embracing the masculine man's world.
If it's any reassurance, I have friends at bigender.net, bioF's and bioM's, who quite successfully present as both male and female to the people in their lives. Personally, I am only out to my wife, son and the medical professionals who treat me- I do not present as both genders to anyone. I see my girl self as another hat I wear much the same as I am husband, son, father and friend but not more than one to many of the people in my life.
But I am bigender, not multiple or transsexual; my girl self is a persona, not a separate personality or any more who I am than my guy self. I don't see myself as a part time girl or a part time guy. It's not important to me to build a new "female life." I am comfortable as a guy or a girl and don't prefer one over the other. I need to express my female self in the life I already have so I am able to explore the advantages and disadvantages of each of my genders. It's not quite as bad as Dustin Hoffman made it seem in Toostie, but I will admit it does take some gymnastics.
I don't shift, I feel like Zythyra (whatever that might be) all of the time!
Z
Quote from: Zythyra on December 31, 2010, 02:58:54 PM
I don't shift, I feel like Zythyra (whatever that might be) all of the time!
Z
It's the same for me, except instead of Zythyra I feel just Zaddy.
These are all interesting.
I am biologically male but have always wanted to be female since I was a child. I've sort of ignored my body since about 8th grade, wearing jeans and a t-shirt every day...and forgetting to shave or take care of myself until it gets unwieldy. I don't exercise because I gain muscle easily and try not to get too skinny as I like some fat on my breasts. I seriously just ignore it...go without looking in the mirror for days. I don't spend money on clothes, guy or girls...although I like fashion and wish the best to people who wear it. Is anyone else sort of body ignorant at this point?
My therapist says I can transition and I plan on starting HRT but transitioning seems like a huge pain. I've ignored my body for so long that to pay attention to it enough to try to resemble a women seems crazy at this point. (I'm 36 and fairly attractive) I plan on staying me. Keeping my name, doing what I do. I like me..just not my gender. I am excited about being on HRT and exercising with male muscle growth. I am excited about breast growth. I don't care about my gentiles, I get erections but have never been able to orgasm from intercourse or "get hard" from typical male stuff. (I've had lap dances and stuff) I'd feel "right" with a vagina but am surgery adverse, cheap, and don't think I'd do a good job with maintenance.
I realize this all sounds lazy but I am actually pretty successful and active. I've just become somewhat body ignorant.
Is this Androgyne? I don't feel kindship to transwomen who change their whole personalities and voices and walk and history to start fresh. I guess I want to be a woman who was raised as a man. I'm really comfortable with my presentation and personality, just get very depressed about my self-identity. My therapist is awesome and has helped me with various issues but my life is great with the exception of this ever presence GID so I kind of want to find people who feel the same and possibly made some good strides to removing this constant feeling. I guess this is what OCD people feel like?
I do this all the time. I'm trying to get both sides to a point where they can both be strong in ways that are unique for each without coming off as arrogant or bitchy. One of the many things I need to work on in 2011.
Quote from: japple on January 01, 2011, 02:45:11 AM
My therapist says I can transition and I plan on starting HRT but transitioning seems like a huge pain. I've ignored my body for so long that to pay attention to it enough to try to resemble a women seems crazy at this point. (I'm 36 and fairly attractive) I plan on staying me. Keeping my name, doing what I do. I like me..just not my gender. I am excited about being on HRT and exercising with male muscle growth. I am excited about breast growth. I don't care about my gentiles, I get erections but have never been able to orgasm from intercourse or "get hard" from typical male stuff. (I've had lap dances and stuff) I'd feel "right" with a vagina but am surgery adverse, cheap, and don't think I'd do a good job with maintenance.
The best way I know to explain it is like the difference between a buffet and a multi-course meal. You can approach transition either way. You can resolve your dysphoria with therapy alone, or with therapy and hormones, or with therapy hormones and "full time", or with any or all of those plus surgery (FFS, GRS, either, neither, or both).
Pick and choose from the buffett or eat one course at a time, its up to you.
Quote from: regan on January 06, 2011, 11:09:04 AM
. You can resolve your dysphoria with therapy alone
Really? Seems impossible from my vantage point but I'd love to read about people who've done it or what's out there.
Completely resolving your GID issues with therapy is possible, with a good therapist who works with people with GID issues. But, maybe not.
You are going to need a good therapist to help you on 'your journey' to who you are.
When you get farther along, you'll have a much better understanding of what directions you may want to take.
You need to actively start from the beginning and most people who have a good outcome seem to rely on their therapist's to help with the decisions your going to have to make.
The start of resolving your issues is going to be a therapist. It's hard to start, but it's a hell of a lot easier than doing nothing about your GID.
Stay tuned to this section of Susan's and also explore around the other area's. There is a wealth of knowledge and peoples stories that you will find helpful. I can't stress any more about finding information for yourself.
It's your life, and everyones stories are different, and so will yours be.
Good luck, I hope you find the right therapist and find the answers to your questions here as you spend some time just looking through all the information that's available.
Quote from: ativan on January 07, 2011, 08:43:06 AM
Completely resolving your GID issues with therapy is possible, with a good therapist who works with people with GID issues. But, maybe not.
My therapist is amazing. I've actually been seeing gender therapists off and on my whole life but this one has helped me stay healthy and everything she says really sticks.
yeah, i switch a lot but im never more female than male-some days i feel androgynous other days i feel like a guy. There isn't much i can do about it since my hair is long(because im vain) and my voice is definitely a girl's...but i just throw on my combat boots and i feel better about it.
I'm so relieved i found this forum-i think i would have gone crazy or something since there's no one i can talk to about this:)
anyway i didn't start shifting into being more masculine until a year ago...i used to be really girly and hello kitty loving and i guess i just became more myself?
Quote from: rabbitheart on January 23, 2011, 09:52:13 PM
I'm so relieved i found this forum-i think i would have gone crazy or something since there's no one i can talk to about this:)
Many of us feel this way or have in the past. Welcome to the Androgyne Talk section.
Quote from: Virginia on December 31, 2010, 08:38:16 AM
If it's any reassurance, I have friends at bigender.net, bioF's and bioM's, who quite successfully present as both male and female to the people in their lives. Personally, I am only out to my wife, son and the medical professionals who treat me- I do not present as both genders to anyone. I see my girl self as another hat I wear much the same as I am husband, son, father and friend but not more than one to many of the people in my life.
But I am bigender, not multiple or transsexual; my girl self is a persona, not a separate personality or any more who I am than my guy self. I don't see myself as a part time girl or a part time guy. It's not important to me to build a new "female life." I am comfortable as a guy or a girl and don't prefer one over the other. I need to express my female self in the life I already have so I am able to explore the advantages and disadvantages of each of my genders. It's not quite as bad as Dustin Hoffman made it seem in Toostie, but I will admit it does take some gymnastics.
This whole thread is fascinating, but this bit - especially the bit about people who are able to pass successfully as both - really made me smile. Yay, hope. (And I appreciate the clarification on not all bigendered people being multiple - I was worried I'd got it wrong after Marq and Mia's post!)
I'll probably come back and re-read and respond to more specific posts when I'm less tired and busy, but for now I'll just add my tuppen'orth...
I definitely switch in how I identify, but it's between more than two genders. Masculine, feminine, neutral, and genderblender. I currently lean closer towards masculine/neutral than the other two, but I don't think it will always be like this.
I was more of a shifter before but I seem to have marked out my area and ebb and flow within it.
It's taken a while to get here however, and my earlier posts probably reveal more dramatic shifts.
Quote from: Xyrenth on January 27, 2011, 04:54:20 PM
This whole thread is fascinating, but this bit - especially the bit about people who are able to pass successfully as both - really made me smile. Yay, hope. (And I appreciate the clarification on not all bigendered people being multiple - I was worried I'd got it wrong after Marq and Mia's post!)
I'll probably come back and re-read and respond to more specific posts when I'm less tired and busy, but for now I'll just add my tuppen'orth...
I definitely switch in how I identify, but it's between more than two genders. Masculine, feminine, neutral, and genderblender. I currently lean closer towards masculine/neutral than the other two, but I don't think it will always be like this.
I can pass successfully as both (or rather, either) and do so all the time ... but the constant is that I'm rarely ever "acting" in my day to day life ... I'm just being myself and it's other people who are perceiving me a certain way for whatever their own reasons for doing so are.
I experience myself as both at the same time. And it's taken me a long time to accept that this is what I'm really feeling, because there's so much pressure to be one-or-the-other - or neither. I just feel like there are two versions of me in me, and one is a man and the other a woman, and sometimes one is a bit louder than the other(!) but I'm not so much switching between them as paying more attention to one and then the other sometimes, but mostly they're both just there.
I've yet to meet anyone who says "Oh snap, me too!" about this, but it's early days ;).
I spent a lot of painful time in my earlier years thinking I was going to have to choose one and stick with it. Now I'm getting them to make friends, we're in this together. And if there's one thing I've learned through talking about this with folk, it's that everyone's got something different going on, even when they use the same labels. It's good to be here, listening to all the different variations on the theme, and not feeling like I'm a dischord for a change.
I found this discussion really fascinating, I do know a few people who's gender fluctuates. I only know one person who's truly bigendered and switches between male and female, most of the people I know with fluctuating gender tend to be very genderfluid and has more states than just male male/or female. I feel quite a kinship with people like this as my gender also fluctuates but I don't do male, just somewhere in between to female really.