Hello all! I have been taking phytoestrogen for the past 3 weeks and begint o notice results after the first several days (because I have pubertal gynecomastia, nothing major just a very tiny buds behind the nipple and I've very thin). However, I recently stopped taking them due to fear that it would harm my hormone receptors and make me less receptive to HRT when I start. I'm only 19 years old and I'm trying everything I can to make it easier to bear waiting for my psychologist to give me that beautiful HRT recommendation. Do you all know anything about how herbal phytoestrogens effect hormones receptors? Will they damage them and prevent me from getting optimal results from HRT?
Thanks,
Christine
I've researched phytoestrogens in the past. I don't believe they necessarily damage your estrogen receptors. However, they fight with other types of estrogens, possibly blocking them. Just discontinue use of the phytoestrogens when you are about to go to on HRT, and I believe your body should clear it up without much problem.
I don't think phytoestrogens are potent enough to give you really strong results. If I remember right, they're only about 1/1000th the strength of prescription estrogen drugs.
Then again, I'm not very well educated about phytoestrogens. I'm just trying to scoop out some knowledge from months ago when I researched them.
Edit: I just noticed you're new to susan's. Glad to see a new face, enjoy your stay.
I took them for several years on and off and managed a A cup but I nearly did my kidneys in because of the high dose needed to be effective. Seriously I'm OK now but ended up in hospital. I wouldn't advise taking them in the quantity needed for MtF's. I've transitioned now and currently a full B cup and since surgery I'm still growing so I think once there out of the body its fine to start a prescribed hormones treatment that is monitored. I was lucky but I guess we do what we do because of our gender dysphoria.
So my advice for what its worth is to get yourself under medical supervision for hormone treatment because some herbal remedies can become toxic to the body if taken in quantity, seriously.
Stardust
Thanks I'm glad to be here! :D
Wow how much would you say is to much? I'm taking phytoestrogen/lignan containing herbs I'm not quite positive on the exact phytoestrogen content but I have been getting results. I don't want to end up in the hospital but I'm getting so tired of waiting for my doctor to write me my recommendation letter.
To much depends on the type of herbs you are taking. I can't really go into dosage as it violates Susan's protocols. All I can say is, it depends on the herb, black cohash is lethal taken in quantity but is one of the best phytoestrogens, fenugreek is another one but not so bad. All you have to do is google these and it will tell you their toxicity. problem with a combined one is the amount of quantity of each herb in each tablet.
Seriously they can contradict the HRT you will be on one day and should be stopped if you plan to go onto HRT. At least six months before. Everything you take like this goes through the kidneys so they can get a battering. I would suggest saying to your therapist/doctor again rather than take the risk. You only have one set of kidneys. You are not monitored so you don't know what's going on. I'm just saying from experience and not to worry you.
Stardust
Ok I will stop using them. is it unreasonable for me to set up a date when I would like to start HRT? I was going to bring this up at my next appointment because phytoestrogens are out of the picture and I really feel like I ned to move forward with this. How was your experience with getting your recommendation letter?
It's a GREAT idea to setup a road map for yourself. Plan things out, when you might like to realistically move through these various stages. It not a bad idea to say, "I want to start my HRT within 4 or 5 months time." and work towards that goal.
Have a road map planned out for the most immediate needs. Such as HRT, Facial Hair Removal, Coming out, Part Time, Full Time, etc. Not necessarily in that order. I think coming out should always come first, then perhaps facial hair removal.
But all of that is for you to decide. I hope I was able to help.
(That was my 100th post... Yay xD)
Thanks, that makes me feel more confident. Though I am still I am apprehensive because my therapist said I need a long track record of stability and my instability comes from waking up and looking in the mirror. I have an amazing girlfriend that helps me so though that is still a problem I'm coping. Also my doctor keeps emphasizing my age because I'm only 19. I've already come out to my immediate family, girlfriend, and a few other friends and they all stand behind me. Besides I begin IPL hair removal on October 27th so after a few more months of showing I'm stable I should be allowed to start. Geex this stuff can be so distressing. *sigh*
it can be extremely distressing. But stay strong, and remember that you are moving forward. The first part of the transition is always the hardest, with coming out and seeing your psychiatrist, trying to start HRT. But it will all settle down and even out. But again, be happy, you are making progress.
Quote from: SamanthaFLA on September 30, 2010, 04:36:06 PM
it can be extremely distressing. But stay strong, and remember that you are moving forward. The first part of the transition is always the hardest, with coming out and seeing your psychiatrist, trying to start HRT. But it will all settle down and even out. But again, be happy, you are making progress.
Wise words Samantha, Yeah the first part of this journey seems like its in slow motion. Things really speed up in the final stages. Would be good to work out a road map of your transition, the facial hair removal should be seen as a start and with your coming out as you have already done that. See these as stepping stones and positives to help you have that stability. You will need stability to go through this. Its not an easy journey and not for the faint hearted so stability, stamina and resolve are all good things to have. Welcome to what I call the "Alice in Wonderland Ride." Its a fun ride though, lol. Keep focused and calm you have begun.
Stardust
Quote from: Christine Snider on September 30, 2010, 02:41:02 PM
How was your experience with getting your recommendation letter?
I was really stupid about the HRT, after stopping my phytoestrogens I had an appointment made to see the GID clinic with a waiting time of two months. When I got there on my first appointment I asked for hormones and you guessed it they said no so I was a little upset. I then thought I had to wait 12 months before I they would let me, I have no idea why I thought that so I didn't ask again until I'd been seeing my therapist for 12 months and then I asked again and they agreed. The silly thing was looking back was that there policy was just for people to wait six months after diagnosis of gender dysphoria. So I lost six months. But that's all relative now as I'm post op three years later. So that's my little story, lol. I'm not even blond, lol.
Stardust
I asked for my letter after 3 months but my doctor told me no because she felt that I was unstable because I was suffering from depression and anxiety. I tried to explain to her that my depression and anxienty are directly connected to my dysphoria and starting hormones would be a step forward that would make me feel better but she didn't seem to agree. It is probably because the night before I had an argument with my parents about hormones because they are directly involved in all of this and I was really upset over some of the things they said and in my anger told them that. If I have to wait a year I will probably die before then (yes I know very stupid of me) but it is how I felt at the time. I still feel that way. So if I go to her this week and ask her opinion on starting hormones in several months and she says no.... should I go look for a different therapist?
bye
Oh I know. You all are very kind and helpful and your comments plus some other things that happened today made me a very happy girl. My dad called the specialist he knows in New York that recommended my psychologist to me and he told me that he knows her really well and as long as I remain stable and show that I am mentally healthy it should only be a few months. Just the thought of finally beginning my dream makes me soooooo happy! I can't to wake up in the morning one day and look in the mirror as who I really am! :D
Cool, you have a great dad, hope things go well and have patience this journey takes time.
Stardust
I started HRT 3 weeks after seeing my Therapist.my doctor endedc up giving them to me without even having a note from my Therapist. Started me on Estrodal and Spirtone( or some thing like that) gonna ask to up the spirtone things next month. It's only been 6 weeks and I have had a lot of positive reactions.even my hips are wider.. of course I been working out my buttocks for about 3hours each day, leg lifts squats ECT. I think I am getting breast pretty quick because I have a lot of chest fat. And my love handles I think went right to my hips, pretty da m fast.
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Quote from: Nigella on September 30, 2010, 01:48:39 PM
To much depends on the type of herbs you are taking. I can't really go into dosage as it violates Susan's protocols. All I can say is, it depends on the herb, black cohash is lethal taken in quantity but is one of the best phytoestrogens, fenugreek is another one but not so bad. All you have to do is google these and it will tell you their toxicity. problem with a combined one is the amount of quantity of each herb in each tablet.
Seriously they can contradict the HRT you will be on one day and should be stopped if you plan to go onto HRT. At least six months before. Everything you take like this goes through the kidneys so they can get a battering. I would suggest saying to your therapist/doctor again rather than take the risk. You only have one set of kidneys. You are not monitored so you don't know what's going on. I'm just saying from experience and not to worry you.
Stardust
Actually black and red Cohosh are relatively low in phytoestrogens, but they do help with its absorption. The best commonly available sources are Soy (particularly in isolated isoflavones,) Flax and other lignans (ideally in seed form with oil, but needs crushed/ground,) green beans, and bean sprouts. Getting more purified soy and flax in supplement form, you have to be careful of toxicity levels. Eating natural foods, like tofu and those beans, avoids this issue, but reduces effectiveness. All sources, as others have mentioned, interfere with pharmaceutical estrogen, and so must be discontinued when starting HRT, but taper off, don't quit cold turkey so you don't go through cellular withdrawal symptoms. Keep in mind, excess phytoestrogen can be stored in your fat cells and re-released during weight loss. Spearmint and to a lesser extent peppermint are great natural Testosterone blockers, basically a natural form of spironolactone, though at a much lower potency and are best absorbed in a tea. For maximum safe effects, use 2-3 mugs of tea daily each made with 2 packets of mint teas. It's not a good idea to drink more than 3-4 cups of tea of any kind on a regular or daily basis.
I went through a three year period where I was unable to start HRT and had to use phytoestrogens. But I was a good girl and did my homework first. You'll never get the same level or speed of results naturally as with prescription HRT. But if you are currently unable to go on HRT for whatever reason (lack of insurance, lack of parental consent for minors, etc.) it can go a great way to alleviating dysphoria and at least feel as though you are making progress. Hope this helps.
HUGS!
I had been taking the strongest phytoestrogen from the East in VERY high doses for about 20 months and was getting results. I had yearly blood work that made sure my kidneys and liver were all good (were and are), but being unable to check for the particular estrogenic compounds that were the active ingredients in this stuff eventually made me think that if I was serious and planned to continue I needed to go main stream. A little complicated making the switch, but I'm now "official" and the results on estradiol and progesterone are better and faster than the phytoestrogen. So, I'd recommend letting go of the phyto's (which give you a great feel for what may be possible) and concentrating on doing what you have to to get monitored HRT. Don't worry about lost time, you'll more than make up for it once your body gets what it's really looking for. Toni
Quote from: Christine Snider on September 30, 2010, 12:02:20 AM
Hello all! I have been taking phytoestrogen for the past 3 weeks and begint o notice results after the first several days (because I have pubertal gynecomastia, nothing major just a very tiny buds behind the nipple and I've very thin). However, I recently stopped taking them due to fear that it would harm my hormone receptors and make me less receptive to HRT when I start. I'm only 19 years old and I'm trying everything I can to make it easier to bear waiting for my psychologist to give me that beautiful HRT recommendation. Do you all know anything about how herbal phytoestrogens effect hormones receptors? Will they damage them and prevent me from getting optimal results from HRT?
Thanks,
Christine
I advise you not to take any phytoestrogens. They are extremely dangerious and you never know what are the "fillers" made of. Should you consider to visit a doctor and get the real stuff, under medical monitoring? I recommend this route if you can...
Vicky
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Hi Vicky! Number one, that is an old post you're replying to, and the person is no longer an active member here.
As for supplements, I'm the site poster child for doing your homework, being safe, and getting good results from government regulated herbal supplements. Perhaps the ones you used weren't under regulation? A good herbologist can point you in the right direction.
Hugs, Devlyn
I think with phyto-s, just like E and AAs, it goes back to "Your Mileage May Vary".
For the last year and a half I have been taking a lot less than recommended daily dosage of only Black Cohosh and nothing else. I am actually planning to start skipping days as the changes are starting to be more than I can comfortably hide. I really only wanted to stop the dysphoria.
People just assume that they need to take bucket loads but I don't think that is the case with everyone. We are all different and our bodies react differently.
For this reason I totally understand why Susan's is against telling people dosages.