Hey
I was wondering if the two were related? Do you think that there are transwomen who are born with this condition in addition to Harry Benjamin Syndrome? My brother who's a medical student brought this up to me (as I am quite tall and have breast development without hormone treatment), and we were wondering if the two may be connected to each other. Have any transwomen here been diagnosed with this or does anyone have experience who could share?
Thanks!
I don't think anyone can tell you if there's a connection or not, there's never been any studies.
I can tell you that atleast one semiactive user on susans is both.
Klinefelter's is a form of intersex condition.
There are many of us here, myself included, who are both intersexed in some way, and are trans (or rather have been trans because I'm postop so I regard myself as merely having a Trans history now since, of course, I was cured by SRS).
However the two conditions are not really related as there are also many people who have one without the other.
But it is possible to suffer from both.
I read some statistics about Klinefelter people somewhere (sorry, don't remember the source).
50% of them were only into guys or were bi, and 5 or 10% had a female gender identity, some of these transitioned.
You could google "Klinefelter transsexual" (without the " ") and you will finally stumble over the statistics if you have the patience to go through several pages with search results.
And if you think you might have Klinefelter syndrome, go to a shrink/endocrinologist and get it checked up. It's not nice when left untreated as you might lack sex hormones and therefore end up with osteoporosis (brittle bones).
Hi, Charlotte:
Your brother knows his stuff. Both Klinefelter and transsexual etiologies can, in fact, be coexistent and yet not be comorbid conditions. In succinct nut-shell synopsis, Klinefelter's syndrome is:
Signs and symptoms
Affected males are almost always effectively infertile, although advanced reproductive assistance is sometimes possible.[7] Some degree of language learning impairment may be present,[8] and neuropsychological testing often reveals deficits in executive functions.[9] In adults, possible characteristics vary widely and include little to no signs of affectedness, a lanky, youthful build and facial appearance, or a rounded body type with some degree of gynecomastia (increased breast tissue).[10] Gynecomastia is present to some extent in about a third of affected individuals, a slightly higher percentage than in the XY population, but only about 10% of XXY males' gynecomastia is noticeable enough to require surgery.[11]
The term hypogonadism in XXY symptoms is often misinterpreted to mean "small testicles" or "small penis". In fact, it means decreased testicular hormone/endocrine function. Because of this hypogonadism, individuals will often have a low serum testosterone level but high serum follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH) levels.[12] Despite this misunderstanding of the term, however, it is true that XXY men also have microorchidism (i.e. small testicles).[12]
The more severe end of the spectrum of symptom expression is also associated with an increased risk of germ cell tumors, male breast cancer,[13] and osteoporosis,[4] risks shared to varying degrees[14] with females. Additionally, medical literature shows some individual case studies of Klinefelter's syndrome coexisting with other disorders, such as pulmonary disease, varicose veins, diabetes mellitus, and rheumatoid arthritis, but possible correlations between Klinefelter's and these other conditions are not well characterized or understood.[citation needed]
In contrast to these potentially increased risks, it is currently thought that rare X-linked recessive conditions occur less frequently in XXY males than in normal XY males, since these conditions are transmitted by genes on the X chromosome, and people with two X chromosomes are typically only carriers rather than affected by these X-linked recessive conditions.
There are many variances within the XXY population, just as in the most common 46,XY population. While it is possible to characterise 47,XXY males with certain body types, that in itself should not be the method of identification as to whether or not someone has 47,XXY. The only reliable method of identification is karyotype testing.
Diagnosis
A karyotype is used to confirm the diagnosis. In this procedure, a small blood sample is drawn. White blood cells are then separated from the sample, mixed with tissue culture medium, incubated, and checked for chromosomal abnormalities, such as an extra X chromosome.
Diagnosis can also be made prenatally via chorionic villus sampling or amniocentesis, tests in which fetal tissue is extracted and the fetal DNA is examined for genetic abnormalities. A 2002 literature review of elective abortion rates found that approximately 50% of pregnancies in the United States with a diagnosis of Klinefelter's syndrome were terminated.[15]
Cause
The extra X chromosome is retained because of a nondisjunction event during meiosis (sex cell division). The XXY chromosome arrangement is one of the most common genetic variations from the XY karyotype, occurring in about 1 in 500 live male births.[4]
In mammals with more than one X chromosome, the genes on all but one X chromosome are not expressed; this is known as X inactivation. This happens in XXY males as well as normal XX females.[16] However, in XXY males, a few genes located in the pseudoautosomal regions of their X chromosomes, have corresponding genes on their Y chromosome and are capable of being expressed.[17] These triploid genes in XXY males may be responsible for symptoms associated with Klinefelter's syndrome.[citation needed]
The first published report of a man with a 47,XXY karyotype was by Patricia A. Jacobs and Dr. J.A. Strong at Western General Hospital in Edinburgh, Scotland in 1959.[18] This karyotype was found in a 24-year-old man who had signs of Klinefelter's syndrome. Dr. Jacobs described her discovery of this first reported human or mammalian chromosome aneuploidy in her 1981 William Allan Memorial Award address.[19]
Variations
The 48, XXYY (male) syndrome occurs in 1 in 18,000–40,000 births and has traditionally been considered to be a variation of Klinefelter's syndrome. XXYY tetrasomy is no longer generally considered a variation of KS,[citation needed] although it has not yet been assigned an ICD-10 code.
Males with Klinefelter syndrome may have a mosaic 47,XXY/46,XY constitutional karyotype and varying degrees of spermatogenic failure. Mosaicism 47,XXY/46,XX with clinical features suggestive of Klinefelter syndrome is very rare. Thus far, only about 10 cases have been described in literature.[20]
This mildly technical treatise is extracted from Wikipedia. Anytime any of you want to know something about medical conditions and/or terms, I highly recommend Wikipedia to you. Why? The people who contribute these kinds of articles usually are professionals either practicing and/or researching in the medical field. Their information is generally quite accurate, informative and complete enough for the layperson. Nine times out of ten, this resource will be all that you need (as a layperson) to get good answers to your questions on matters medical.
Think your bro is gonna be a really good doctor someday. Hope you two are on good terms. If you are, you're lucky to have somebody like that in the family.
Good question! Good luck! ;)
Quote from: Charlotte1991 on August 07, 2010, 09:39:54 PM
Hey
I was wondering if the two were related? Do you think that there are transwomen who are born with this condition in addition to Harry Benjamin Syndrome? My brother who's a medical student brought this up to me (as I am quite tall and have breast development without hormone treatment), and we were wondering if the two may be connected to each other. Have any transwomen here been diagnosed with this or does anyone have experience who could share?
Thanks!
I know a few trans girls that have Klinefelters (XXY) but it's not a for sure thing, I don't think. If you have Klinefelters it doesn't mean your trans and if you're trans you don't necessarily have Klinefelters...although I don't know anyone that has it that isn't trans.....hehe. I've often wondered if I had it too.
Has anyone found any studies on this? I too have been told that I have Klinefelter's, though it was not confirmed with genetic testing, I have all the symptoms. My regret is that I was not given any counseling and just put on T when I was younger.
Yep yep yep. I have Kleinfelters Syndrome and I'm MTF transgender. To me it's a great thing because transitioning was so much easier for me. I have wide hips and B Cup breasts and I'm not even on hormones yet. Decreased facial and body hair is nice, I had the highest male voice in my family (my little brothers had deeper voices than me) and voice training didn't take too much effort. My dad was more excepting of me being trans with me having KS too
I guess I'm an exception,I have a female body with a male appendage,my breasts grew to a borderline B cup by the time I was 17. I had to dry shave to grow facial hair and body hair so I could try to pass as male,instead I wound up being the bearded lady..rofl on that one..I'm highly intelligent and wasn't sterile for I fathered 3 children and have a avg penis. I've always known I was female but was forced into being a male by my dad.
Quote from: cheryl reeves on May 03, 2016, 10:51:40 PM
I guess I'm an exception,I have a female body with a male appendage,my breasts grew to a borderline B cup by the time I was 17. I had to dry shave to grow facial hair and body hair so I could try to pass as male,instead I wound up being the bearded lady..rofl on that one..I'm highly intelligent and wasn't sterile for I fathered 3 children and have a avg penis. I've always known I was female but was forced into being a male by my dad.
You sound a lot like me. Visually I look a lot like someone who's XXY, except I have secondary rather than primary hypogonadism, which rules out being XXY. If you're fertile, that more or less rules it out too. Perhaps you were exposed to DES or some other synthetic female hormone during your prenatal development? Did your mother have a history of miscarriages, or any risk factors for miscarriage?
Caroline Cossey is one famous trans woman who is, in her case, XXXY (which has similar effects to XXY except tends to cause even more feminization).
I was her firstborn,she took prenatal vitamins I have since found out. My middle sis was more boy then I was growing up,my little sis had problems conceiving,they wear jeans and t's all the time you can hardly get them into a dress,me it suits haven't worn one since I was 13,I prefer dresses over heals. When I hit puberty it backfired I developed like a girl without the periods but the moodswings were a nightmare,my breasts stopped at a borderline b cup,my voice didn't mature,I don't have a Adam's Apple,didn't grow any body hair outside the pubic area and I got a stupid idea to try and be manly and shaved worse mistake of my life,the body and facial hair grows in like steel wool prob due to my native american heritage. I haven't gone shirtless in 38yrs whenever I take my short off in public I get told to cover up. I never been tested outside of being diagnosed with ptsd,don't know how that one happened,and anti social anxiety another weird one for I have worked with people my while working life,and depression the only thing I was depressed about was my dad dying when I was 16, and anger issues,i found this due to that time of month,my mood swings almost mirror a women's during their monthly and believe me I can get as nasty as my wife during hers. Hope this helps a little
I have no idea what that is, but some of the symptoms on here sound familiar to me. Although skinny as a bean pole as a kid, I had some chest growth around the onset of puberty and it never went away. Found that my testosterone was lower than most women my entire life and after my body started feminizing on its own as an adult without HRT, I found that my E was also well above normal. It seems the hormonal makeup of my body is actually female, but my organs are male. Also never got the pronounced adam's apple, voice didn't start to drop until my mid 20s, no facial hair until my 30s and it hardly came in at all. I have less body hair than my wife does. My mother was also given a supplement to help her get her period while she was pregnant with me. Apparently neither her nor the doctor were aware that she was pregnant 2 months in.
The first time my wife saw me naked the first thing that flashed into her mind was not 'Holy S%^&!" It was Klinfelters. It was about 20 years later for her to mention it. When I finally Googled it and saw the 'Classic' pic on Wikipedia it was "Holy S%^&! That's me!"
Maybe I am. Maybe I am a DES baby. Maybe its..... I've never been tested, nor do I ever care to be since it isn't going to make one iota of difference in what I need to do to survive.
I have xxy karyotype actually and was assigned female gender but I identify as male. There's been studies about this most people with xxy syndrome identify as male and I believe most are heterosexual for the most part. I'm heterosexual for my assigned gender though so I actually like men instead of women.
Quote from: Debra on August 09, 2010, 02:26:10 PM
I've often wondered if I had it too.
Since this thread popped up again, figured I'd update it for me.
I was able to get a karaotype test and found out I'm just normal XY.
Oh also I didn't experience any of those symptoms I developed a normal female with precocious puberty and small subtle signs like my body habitus being male or slightly lower voice etc.... Most of my symptoms are mental. I got the add the autistic language problems dyslexia bad coordination etc... I have several struggles because I had xxy chromosomes. I also think because I'm xxy I do prefer to be a man over a woman. And the route of my own issues with my body. But thats just my opinion.
I was diagnosed as having Klinefelters Syndrome, unfortunately there was no testing for it at the time of my birth (over 50 years ago), it was not picked up until I turned 16 years of age. Because I was under the legal age of adulthood, i.e. had no say in medical treatments, I had to go on testosterone (male hormone shots) until the age of 18, where upon I stopped the treatment (against medical advice), had a period of about 6 years without any hormones, and transitioned full-time into a woman at the age of 24. I have felt like a girl all my life, Klinefelters Syndrome (in those days) was not picked up until puberty, so no, I don't believe having Klinefelters Syndrome caused me to want to be a woman, because at the time I first felt like a girl, I never knew I had it. I am not on any form of HRT, I developed an allergy to estrogen in my early 20's and had to stop taking it, I've already had an orchie, so no need for t-blockers either. I'm actually really happy I was born with Klinefelters Syndrome, it made transitioning so much easier. I am 6ft tall, have the female figure, my voice is naturally feminine (no need for voice training), I am a all-natural 36C borderline D cup, no breast implants, small hands and small feet and really happy with the way I turned out :o)
Quote from: Miss_Rosalyn on May 26, 2017, 12:57:29 AM
I was diagnosed as having Klinefelters Syndrome, unfortunately there was no testing for it at the time of my birth (over 50 years ago), it was not picked up until I turned 16 years of age. Because I was under the legal age of adulthood, i.e. had no say in medical treatments, I had to go on testosterone (male hormone shots) until the age of 18, where upon I stopped the treatment (against medical advice), had a period of about 6 years without any hormones, and transitioned full-time into a woman at the age of 24. I have felt like a girl all my life, Klinefelters Syndrome (in those days) was not picked up until puberty, so no, I don't believe having Klinefelters Syndrome caused me to want to be a woman, because at the time I first felt like a girl, I never knew I had it. I am not on any form of HRT, I developed an allergy to estrogen in my early 20's and had to stop taking it, I've already had an orchie, so no need for t-blockers either. I'm actually really happy I was born with Klinefelters Syndrome, it made transitioning so much easier. I am 6ft tall, have the female figure, my voice is naturally feminine (no need for voice training), I am a all-natural 36C borderline D cup, no breast implants, small hands and small feet and really happy with the way I turned out :o)
Miss Rosalyn,
Welcome to the site.
Thanks for joining us and sharing your experience. I am glad that your "transition" has left you in a good place.
I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment:
Things that you should read
Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) | Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html) | Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.) |
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html) | News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html) | Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866) |
Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.
With warmth,
Joanna
Quote from: Miss_Rosalyn on May 26, 2017, 12:57:29 AM
I have felt like a girl all my life, Klinefelters Syndrome (in those days) was not picked up until puberty, so no, I don't believe having Klinefelters Syndrome caused me to want to be a woman, because at the time I first felt like a girl, I never knew I had it.
The point is, whether you knew about being XXY or not, it's something that was there from the moment you were conceived, so it means your prenatal development took place with lower than normal male levels of testosterone present. That's almost certainly what led to you being born with a brain that's more female than male aligned.
Quote
I am not on any form of HRT, I developed an allergy to estrogen in my early 20's and had to stop taking it,
I've not heard of anyone being allergic to estrogen. However, if you were born more than 50 years ago and given estrogen in your early 20s, it was probably one of the older, non bioidentical estrogens such as Premarin or ethinylestradiol. These all have a much worse side effects profile than estradiol, the estrogen that is used for HRT now. More likely you had a bad reaction to one of these older estrogens. They are all quite nasty, and long term use carries a high risk of serious (or even fatal) side effects, particularly blood clots. By contrast, estradiol (particularly transdermal or injected estradiol) appears to be safe, even when used long term, as long as you keep its level within the normal physiological range for women.