A recently came across a somewhat strange website called sex change regrets.
Personally it kinda reminds me of ex-gay websites.
what are your thoughts?
Sites of this ilk are pointless and stupid.
Anyone that regrets it after going through the whole process is a fool with no one to blame but themselves.
I regret not doing it sooner.No one makes you change,take responsibility and blame yourselves.There are stringent conditions for gender reassignment to prevent this sort of thing happening.
Quote from: big kim on January 16, 2013, 11:16:03 AM
I regret not doing it sooner.
Same here.
The two times I backed out was because I didn't want to screw anything up with my family. This is one of only two regrets that I have about this whole thing.
The other is not completing electro when I had the cash and there were several places locally that I could have it done.
There will always be moaners, for many reasons. But someone can post on the net. any claim they choose.
Though I haven't, and probably won't, look at the site, i wonder how many of those may have had their change of thought at an early stage. We had this quite recently, so youngster, about 17, living as female since 14 I think. Had anti-androgens for a few months, changed their mind. Then made a big hoohaa in the tabloid press, because they were paid for the story.
The truth is, the process is remarkable successful compared to other medical procedures.
As others said, and probably will, my regret is not doing so when I had the chances. I know so much more now, but one thing I wish I had known when younger is, the longer you put it off, the harder it gets.
Need - Opportunity, Just do it.
Quote from: Slow Music on January 16, 2013, 10:43:30 AM
Personally it kinda reminds me of ex-gay websites.
what are your thoughts?
I have a few thoughts on this. As to me personally, it cured my gender dysphoria, so I know it worked.
I have met 2 people over the years who came to regret 1 person had other issues (passing, depression, lack of a job). The other person was depressed post-op got many years and was married to man who later divorced her. In a moment of weakness she became prey for religious do gooders (life of sin, you are a deceiver, the lot). Long story short she want back to living as a man although a man with a vagina. She had FFS everything. When I finally met him now, he was the most miserable looking character I had ever laid eyes on. No smiles, extremely nervous and easy agitated. Confidentially he told me had was extremely suicidal, hated what religion had gone to him and the only choice now was death.
My conclusion do much for reparative therapy and this person was held out as someone "cured". They (narth and others like them) care if LGBT people kill themselves as long as they have a photo op out of it. It was really tragic.
an often recurring theme in a lot of these regrets is that they lost family, they had to deal with various forms of discrimination, etc. So is it their actual desire to return to their assigned gender or is it because they want to regain what they lost in the process and weren't prepared to lose? I think it is mostly outside influences causing the regret and desire to return to the before.
This site and articles from it have been previously discussed in the News Forum. I don't know who runs the site, however Walt Heyer, an author prominently featured there, is hawking a book, and presumably his services as a consultant, to other ex-trans people.
Z
I think regret comes from having unrealistic expectations. Having a sex change can help with your gender dysphoria but growing up transgendered can contribute to other psychological issues. Speaking for myself, in order to survive growing up transgendered I learned to hide my feelings, avoid close relationships and trust no one. Throughout my youth I created a false persona in order get by and stay safe.
The end result is that as an adult I have an avoidant personality disorder, PTSD and social anxiety. Top all of that off with all lingering doubts about sin and shame that I learned at church... and that's still not the least of what's wrong with me.
Transition can change many things, but it won't magically change everything about who I am or what I've been taught to feel and believe. Having a sex change is just one step among many that may be required to become whole again.
Naturally there are going to be some who are going to regret having a sex change because it did not solve all of their issues or it was not how they thought it would be.
Regrets are normal and I think I will always have regrets about my life. I'll always have regrets and a sense of despair over not being born female. Of missing out on so much of my childhood and youth and life and experiences and friendships and so many more things that so many people take for granted. I will always regret the depths of depression and hopelessness I've sometimes been driven to and the level of isolation that being transgendered has sometimes made me feel.
Transition won't change the lingering regrets I may still have for the past... but it may still save me from living an entire lifetime of regret.
Ka Ora,
::) The moral of these tales of woe, is simple "Look before you leap-for after 'take-off' there's no going/'getting' back !"
It's possible, some of those who now regret it, prior to surgery they too were in 'no doubt' that surgery was right for them...
Metta Zenda :)
Regarding regret. I'm nearly pre-everything (one laser treatment for facial hair done) and still waiting for a first appointment for a transgender research group, which should be somewhere between April to August this year. I have been looking at some of the regret documents and I cannot really feel the connection to those people or to their feeling.
However I've been questioning myself a lot in the past months. I have no doubt about myself, but I am a bit worried about the fact that I'm a very demanding personality. That goes especially for myself. I'm really worried what will happen to me, how will I react, if the hormones doesn't manage to change this body so, that I'm identified clearly as a female. Could a regret hit me then? But I'm not quite sure what to regret then? Mainly perhaps the regret would be, that I didn't try to do this when I was twenty and the hormones might have still do their magic, but now being close to forty, it's too late.
I don't know, I'm just really worried about that and what will happen in that case.
Sorry to vent like this...
I personally know one who regret
But it is effeminate gay who performed as drag queen and never live full time and go trough it even when therapist not recommended it
And now live as andro-male
It is everyone choice and responsibility, no one force you to do it
Quote from: Snickerdoodle on January 16, 2013, 11:22:16 AM
The two times I backed out was because I didn't want to screw anything up with my family.
Dito. Not so much my family, but my second wife. She knew I was transsexual when we got married and I invested a lot of time and love assuming she would move along. Only to figure out a couple of years later that she assumed that I would "do my thing" only in the confines of our house...
That's the only real regret.
Quote from: SunKat on January 16, 2013, 10:59:18 PM
The end result is that as an adult I have an avoidant personality disorder, PTSD and social anxiety. Top all of that off with all lingering doubts about sin and shame that I learned at church... and that's still not the least of what's wrong with me.
One thing that worked for me was seeking freedom "from" religion. It's really quite a nice feeling and very liberating well for me anyways. Nothing can be a sin if I don't believe, it's just bad people doing bad things. The reward part is simply being a decent person and that doesn't require a magic book just a simple philosophy of humanity and kindness. I can still be remembered the same way and there is no difference between that and being religious except freedom.
The thing about regret and detransition is that it can be part of the process of transitioning. The guy who runs our trans center is firmly convinced of this by lots of experience. And there are actually people who transition, then detransition for years and years. And then transition AGAIN.
Maybe they all started too fast etc. But then again... So he could even have cases of folks that have already transitioned back. This guy believes that in some cases this is their process and it is valid.
I'm ftm. And there are guys who stop and start T. It looks like regret. And then they go ahead and keep going. A lot of these regretters actually end up transitioning fully.
It's all a slice in time. And you have to see the whole life history to see what really happens. I m sure they don't bother with this on the website, which I don't plan to look up.
--Jay
Quote from: Emmanuelle on January 17, 2013, 03:52:23 AM
Dito. Not so much my family, but my second wife. She knew I was transsexual when we got married and I invested a lot of time and love assuming she would move along. Only to figure out a couple of years later that she assumed that I would "do my thing" only in the confines of our house...
That's the only real regret.
I've never had a spouse so I never had to deal with that issue. The first time I was 10 and could have come out to my mom because she asked me if I wanted to live my live as a girl (after getting busted crossdressing for the 100th time) but I chickened out solely because of my dad.
The second time I was 19 and I REALLY wanted to say something but she was going through the process of divorcing him and I thought it would be selfish to bring it up at that point so I just retreated back to music, drugs and alcohol so I could keep from losing my mind.
Some people do have serious regrets even if they are the gender they changed their bodies to. Everyone deals with loss differently, and some people who were ok with loosing everything before might have regret for loosing it later.
But usually those sites concentrate on the reason they want to push forward rather than the reality of the situation.
End of the day Transition is not for everyone but I would'nt call someone stupid if they regret the sacrifices.
Quote from: Rita on January 17, 2013, 01:57:30 PM
End of the day Transition is not for everyone but I would'nt call someone stupid if they regret the sacrifices.
What about people who regret it and then use that as a basis for going on and on about how it should be banned just because they didn't think things through and don't have the guts to admit it?
Like Charles (formerly Samantha) Kane
Quote from: Snickerdoodle on January 17, 2013, 02:42:54 PM
What about people who regret it and then use that as a basis for going on and on about how it should be banned just because they didn't think things through and don't have the guts to admit it?
To blanket everyone who regrets as stupid is silly.
But I would agree, its not our fault they made a mistake. It is solely their own, thus going after a community at large for the mistake of a small percentage is stupid. It is also human nature, and makes for good news so their stories get more publicity than the rest of us who a re genuinely happy.
Quote from: big kim on January 17, 2013, 02:46:14 PM
Like Charles (formerly Samantha) Kane
Lynn Conway has a great web page dedicated to this subject:
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html)
The conversation is still relevant today. There are more of us now, more public and I would be willing to bet that before I breathe my last breath on this planet there will be a longer list of regrets. That's why the wait is such a good thing. The people who really want it will get it no matter what.
When I was transitioning I know a few people who rushed to get Srs like it was some kind of award. A lot of the Thai doctors back then would do the surgery with no letters nothing. All anyone needed was $4000 and a plane ticket. They came back to the states with their surgery letters and beards and figured they would be accepted and then reality sank in. I would love to see how those people are fitting in today. My guess is they went backwards.
Quote from: Rita on January 17, 2013, 03:21:38 PM
To blanket everyone who regrets as stupid is silly.
But I would agree, its not our fault they made a mistake. It is solely their own, thus going after a community at large for the mistake of a small percentage is stupid. It is also human nature, and makes for good news so their stories get more publicity than the rest of us who a re genuinely happy.
Why is that "silly"?
People that end up in that situation are usually quite vocal afterwards and then they blab to whomever will listen about how they regret it. If they talk to someone in the media about it, it will be passed off as an example of how "trannies are all delusional" blah, blah, blah.
So if it is anyone that is making blanket statements it is them. I never once implied that I was referring "the community at large". I was only referring to the idiots that have more money than brains.
I have found out a tad more about the guy who runs sex change regrets since I started this topic. According to trans Christians.org he was misdiagnosis-ed as having gender identity disorder when he had some thing else and now is against anyone who tries to transition. Also when you Google his name it turns out he may have worked with the anti-gay group mass resistance.
I did say that his website put me in mind of an ex-gay group.
Thanks for the update Slow Music.
I could take naysayers a bit more seriously if they would just come out with some honesty now and again.
But when they can only produce distortions of down right nonsense such as Charles Kane, then we have to ask our selves if they exist because there is a need for explaination?
Whatever, I think it is important that we bear in mind that there are quite a number of these. Then treat them accordingly.
Early in my journey, I read a couple "regret" sites, found by myself doing searches to see if anyone had regrets...
I wanted to know what they went thru, to give myself a base of knowledge to help guide myself towards (or away from) transitioning..."Could this be me in 5-10 years?"
When in doubt, LEARN MORE. Take more time to think about things, to consider if one is doing this impulsively or deliberately. I doubt a website could persuade, or dissuade, a rational adult to do something so necessary (or UNnecessary, if you're not trans) as transitioning).
If you do it right, you'll either transition or not...and the responsibility for either is yours alone.
Quote from: Venus-Castina on January 19, 2013, 08:41:12 AM
I don't know what is better: Life as an unpassable woman with a fair bit of genderdysphoria and discrimination, or life as a man with a lot of genderdysphoria.
My thoughts exactly. Without an answer unfortunately...
Quote from: Snickerdoodle on January 17, 2013, 07:03:10 PM
Why is that "silly"?
People that end up in that situation are usually quite vocal afterwards and then they blab to whomever will listen about how they regret it. If they talk to someone in the media about it, it will be passed off as an example of how "trannies are all delusional" blah, blah, blah.
So if it is anyone that is making blanket statements it is them. I never once implied that I was referring "the community at large". I was only referring to the idiots that have more money than brains.
They are misguided, and may be grieving their decision. People become stupid~ but I feel bad for them more than I want to jump at their throats. I am more upset at the sites and media that exploit their pain for their own political or ideological gain.
Our real "condition" as to the medical world cannot be invalidated by a few vocal individuals.
I understand your feelings as well >.< not trying to be argumentative.
Quote from: Venus-Castina on January 19, 2013, 08:41:12 AM
I feel some form of regret which is mainly because I didn't start sooner. Because of that I can't pass completely and frankly life has become a whole lot more difficult because of that. I catch my self on looking for reasons to continue and thinking this transition may create more trouble than it solves.
I don't know what is better: Life as an unpassable woman with a fair bit of genderdysphoria and discrimination, or life as a man with a lot of genderdysphoria.
I believe passing is not by looks, but by believing in yourself! A little confidence goes a long way in presenting a female aura ;D I know its harder than just saying it.
Also, loosing all that facial hair tends to work magic regardless of age and looks. (even without HRT)
I wonder how many reside on the other side of the coin.
I regret never under going a complete transition.
Although I've had the desire to be female for years, and have felt female for years prior to acknowledging the desire something always stopped me from taking the plunge.
Family, finances, & fear combined with inertia to make me hesitate fully committing.
I satisfied my desire, or so I told myself, with half measures such as CD, HRT on an on again off again basis, and a fair measure of fantasy.
Regret is, or should be, an integral part of growing old if an examined life is worth anything.
Still the regret of roads not taken is real as is its accompanying sadness.
Not everyone wants to transition or wants to have srs, or is confused about it so much and later regret it. It is within the realm of reality.
I seem to be suffering from Post- op regret. Please don't insinuate we are losers.
I was ok growing up, did boy stuff and also played with a dolly once in a while. Then at fifteen out of the blue the dreaded cross dressing started. It was devastating but I had a knack for it. But how I hated it. My male side tried fighting this for many years. Looking back I was so lucky that I was free of this terrible curse for the first 15 years of my life.
To all my trans sisters and brothers I know It really is awful to be trans. People
don't know what we go through.
What are the best solutions to this do nothing or get treatment. I don't know.
I knew at 18 I was a true transsexual. I was diagnosed with gid at age 45. I finally had SRS 16 months ago at age 50 and I hate what I have done to myself. When I look down there it is seems so wrong. Maybe it is because I am still a genetic male and I was not born with a woman's brain. (form the Stochholm Brain institute )
Walt Heyer has the web site post op regret.
SRS did not cure my GID. even though I followed the Wpath soc.
what causes Post op regret ?
In case my shrink did not give me un biased therapy. he pushed the sex change. I listened to this with a jaundiced eye.
Another problem is the electrologists , some who have transpeople for clients, will encourage SRS. They are not shrinks ! Just women who think they know everything.
Wpath states everyone is happy post op and that regrets are too few to mention. However the American Psychiatric Asso. has dumped the WpathSOC stating the SOC was never based on real research. (from article APA dumps Wpath )They are coming out with different ideas about treating transgenders. No they didn't say ban SRS.
The trangender You Tube videos always show transitioning in a positive lite.
The people who advocate that SRS is the best treatment for GID including Wpath and my shrink are also a problem. I am not saying that SRS is bad for everyone. If people get SRS and are happy good for them. But don't
ram this stuff down people's throats.
I also felt I had to transition even though I did not get a good feeling about it.
To avoid regret : get therapy from an un biased source. So many gender therapist are not unbiased. I am not talking conversion therapy. Though in my case it probably would of been the way to go.
Avoid drinking the Kool_Aid from the transgender empire. Just because it seems almost all post op trans people are happy this doesn't mean you will be.
Think for yourself before you change your outer appearance. If you believe SRS will make your life so much better than it is now you are sorely mistaken.
If SRS improves your life good.
It has gotten a little better for me but in my case SRS probably ruined my life. The real problem is I let being transgendered rule my life.
Quote from: victoria n on March 19, 2013, 02:25:54 PM
what causes Post op regret ?
In case my shrink did not give me un biased therapy. he pushed the sex change. I listened to this with a jaundiced eye.
Another problem is the electrologists , some who have transpeople for clients, will encourage SRS. They are not shrinks ! Just women who think they know everything.
Wpath states everyone is happy post op and that regrets are too few to mention. However the American Psychiatric Asso. has dumped the WpathSOC stating the SOC was never based on real research. (from article APA dumps Wpath )They are coming out with different ideas about treating transgenders. No they didn't say ban SRS.
The trangender You Tube videos always show transitioning in a positive lite.
The people who advocate that SRS is the best treatment for GID including Wpath and my shrink are also a problem. I am not saying that SRS is bad for everyone. If people get SRS and are happy good for them. But don't
ram this stuff down people's throats.
I also felt I had to transition even though I did not get a good feeling about it.
With respect and sympathy, I suggest the problem is your expectation.
Quote from: victoria n on March 19, 2013, 02:25:54 PM
It has gotten a little better for me but in my case SRS probably ruined my life.
Oh, sweetie, that sounds devastating. I hope you don't give up and keep finding ways to pick up the pieces. Perhaps treat it like anyone else who's sustained an injury that left their body in a way they don't want it. Can you work with a counselor who has experience with people who lost a limb, or were disfigured in some way? There are very helpful treatments and maybe what you're facing is similar to theirs.
Quote from: victoria n on March 19, 2013, 02:25:54 PM
Avoid drinking the Kool_Aid from the transgender empire.
Alas, I don't feel I can relate personally to your experience. Professionals I've met have not at all tried to push me into surgery. My gender therapist made a point to inform me that there are many non-op transgender people who are content with their bodies and only I'll know whether surgery is right for me.
Quote from: Zumbagirl on January 17, 2013, 04:55:17 AM
One thing that worked for me was seeking freedom "from" religion. It's really quite a nice feeling and very liberating well for me anyways. Nothing can be a sin if I don't believe, it's just bad people doing bad things. The reward part is simply being a decent person and that doesn't require a magic book just a simple philosophy of humanity and kindness. I can still be remembered the same way and there is no difference between that and being religious except freedom.
I couldn't of said it any better. When I left religion it was very liberating for me as well. I found My fundamental values did not change and in many ways I became a much better person, no longer having a jaded perspective on the world, life, and humanity which religion so easily tried to force on me. I have absolutely no regrets. I lost friends and family because of my transition, but the happiness I have had living more completely surpasses the losses and in the end it is those who cast me off who have suffered.
This is a most interesting topic. I went and perused that website a bit. Anyone who reads that should take it all with a grain of salt. Way to many red flags for me to trust that many of the testimonials were actually written by post-op trans folk or by people who actually understand anything at all about transgendered people.
I kind of feel that while the restrictions and the mandated therapy in order to get the surgery are well intentioned I think it all boils down to doing what you want to do. Freedom to choose and the freedom to act on your desires is essential. Personally, I would love to have the surgery. Don't think it would fix ANY of my problems except the gender dysphoria. But then again, even at 44 I still have a hard time passing as my "birth" gender. So whether or not I "pass" for a woman is irrelevant because I can't even pass as a man and I sure as hell am not going to get invited to any social functions any time soon. And why do they think height is a discriminating factor? Heck, my stepmother is 6'2 like the guy in the story and she has huge feet and no real breasts. She doesn't have problems. Last time I checked women come in different shapes, sizes, different colors and oh, their isn't one thing that women are about as the website implied. All women have different ideas, different needs and different feelings.
I want to change my gender for a variety of reasons. Passing isn't really that high on the list. I'd just like my external appearance to represent who I really am. It really isn't all that complicated unless I allow it to be. I try not to care what others think since I don't know what they think anyway & I haven't exactly had loads of success with other people to start with. I've known lots of people who literally hated me with a passion until they got to know me and then had a change of heart. Many, who have taken an irrational dislike to me never gave me the chance; however, what can I do about that? It wasn't like I was glammed up or anything like that. Not being accepted into any social group is very common. People find all kinds of reasons to discriminate against others and we can all be victims. There is just simply no reason to allow any of the kind of thinking presented on that website to dissuade us from making any decision. That's just my opinion.
i have heard about woman getting the "snip" and psychologically ending up depressed and i have heard about many being happier after, all in all i would say, if it doesn't bother you dont change it, if you obviously hate it and its not you, well you should be fine
i guess what that boils down to is if your going to get any surgery's make sure its for you and not for someone else like a boyfriend or something..
Broadly, the long waits and the required letters associated with sex changes are intended to hedge against the risk of a "false positive." It is not a perfect process, but the system has a great deal of measures to protect against this type of error.
The problem with any process of timely operating on the correct set of individuals is that it relies on people having a high-level of intelligence, understanding, and integrity on issues concerning sex and gender. Society's proficiency on issues of sex and gender leave much to be desired, and this problem makes it difficult for people to understand SRS. When a conservative ideologue rails against TGs, GLBs, or even women wearing pants or holding positions of power, this misinforms susceptible individuals who hear the person's message (who will in kind misinform, bully, or otherwise cause problems for others) and diminishes society's grasp on how sex and gender operate. When cliques dictate behavior on the basis of sex or gender, or anything, regardless of their cis/trans numbers, they diminish society's grasp on how sex and gender operate. Doctors, psychologists, therapists, and psychiatrists all have varying professional levels of comprehension of how sex/gender work and have their own morality, personal beliefs, prejudices, and self-interests, and the extent these matters corrupt their work can interfere with properly referring, diagnosing, and informing patients. Media, family, friends, schools, churches, businesses, these all propagate flawed information. In total, people in society are bombarded with information -- much of it is (broadly) destructive, much of it is (broadly) constructive, and a good deal of it has to be untangled from the context it comes from. Even among allies, they are typically not exposed to the robust variety of individuals like we have on these boards to polish their understanding, and not even all of us can represent the entire set of possibilities or experiences.
The battle we have is to get to high-quality information, and to have that available to the masses. If the dominant narratives (just as an example) are "SRS is immoral and should never be done" and "anyone who wants SRS should be able to get it right away," then we're going to have trouble because we have to reject *both* viewpoints. Granted, one of these ideas is worse than the other, but neither is a real solution. Furthermore, we have to *replace* these narratives with one of our own. Doing so is complicated, because we may not know precisely what we think is right, and it is tricky to find other individuals who recognize that the issue of SRS cannot viewed through a duality. SRS must be available, but candidates for it must go through an educational process to make sure that SRS is right for them (rather than some elusive third/fourth/etc option that may not be obvious at first). Because as most of us know, in a world that still perpetuates the idea of pink for baby girls and blue for baby boys, a genetic boy liking pink does not translate to this person being gay, a girl (for whom SRS may or may not be appropriate), a "sissy," a crossdresser, genderqueer, third/alternate gender, or a "tough guy" -- it just means the kid likes pink. But it's not just enough for us to know every little bit like this so we can cut through the noise and understand what is true about ourselves -- we need the whole world to have access to this piece of useful information (sadly, this *does* to qualify as "useful" given present circumstances), and to every other relevant bit we can come up with. Because when you get down to it, we want precisely the right group of people to get SRS, keeping away those who would not benefit (and especially those who would be harmed), and granting it to those for whom it is part of an ideal solution. It is a difficult task, it will be riddled with mistakes (probably more often on the side of caution), and everyone involved will have to work to improve the system, but it is a worthwhile effort.
Quite relevantly, Susan's is an excellent resource for helping people settle in to the right identity and goals (if possible), making it less likely they make a decision they regret. Between the Wiki and the variety of identity-based message boards, lots of relevant information and testimony is available, people can see a great variety of what is possible, and curious individuals can interact with other users for more information. A person who first identifies as a TS and seeks SRS can see the possibility of being a non-op TS or an androgyne (and consider if such a plan/identity is better for them) -- we won't (better not) try to talk someone out of being a SRS-seeking TS, but we show many things that are possible (in case something else is a better fit), and we won't (better not) railroad a questioning person into a certain identity (like a TS who needs SRS). We are not professionals on the matter (although there are some exceptions), and we definitely are not perfect, but using this website or a comparable high-level resource is a great way to help make better assessments about one's identity and to help us better understand the identities of others (including not rushing to conclusions/stereotypes). It seems kind of cheap to say "this site is awesome and helps solve trans-related problems," but that is what Susan's does. We rock. :D
Nice summary Kaelin