Topic: Does Society Tend to Negatively Judge Transgender People?

[crazy old bat]

Catherine, I think this should be viewed as how society judges those that people know are transgendered. Of course, the better you pass, the less risk of being judged as a transgender person. So not everyone's personal experience will go along with it.  I have little problems unless someone knows I'm trans, with those there have been issues. I pass for the most part and so most people don't tend to judge me as a trans person simply because they don't know. If they knew, I have every confidence(based on experience with those that did find out) that most of them will view me differently and have a different perception of who I am and what I am.

[Catherine Sarah]

Catherine, I think this should be viewed as how society judges those that people know are transgendered.

On that basis, I would completely agree. You'd expect marginally different results under such circumstances.

Pleased you are not too hassled by your daily activities, as i would see you (from your avatar) being very passable, and very confident in your abilities.

Huggs
Catherine

[crazy old bat]

On that basis, I would completely agree. You'd expect marginally different results under such circumstances.

Pleased you are not too hassled by your daily activities, as i would see you (from your avatar) being very passable, and very confident in your abilities.

Huggs
Catherine

I'm lucky and I even work at the only convenience store in my little town, second shift, so I deal with a lot of people with a lot of different backgrounds, including a lot of rednecks and military guys. I've seen how some have interacted with me before they knew and then how they were after some "good samaritan" felt a need to tell them about me. Its usually a big difference.

[wendy]

WOW!!!!

With something like 95% of respondants reporting between "mostly and highly" agree, I must be the redneck in the group. You guessed it. Mine is the only "slightly disagree" vote to date.

A recent US investigation into discrimination and abuse suffered by the TG community, reported figures in excess of 50% in a majority of the subsections the report covered. However the result of this poll has my head spinning.

In my daily travels, I certainly couldn't see "most to highly agree" result happening to me, with the people I come in contact with. I would have to say, that roughly between 4 to 8% max. of the people I come directly in contact with on a daily basis, may, have some level of suspicion as to my authenticity, with, what I perceive to vary between very mild to perhaps, I'm not authentic.

Mine you, I have no idea on the perception of those that I don't come directly in contact with, who may be able to spot a TG from 50 paces.

Now moving my head closer to the chopping block, I'm tending to think such a high result from this poll may constitute a perception abberation or an attitudinal position from those that engaged in the poll. (You may now bring down the axe)

Would anyone care to comment before I lose consciousness and bleed to death. I'd hate this to be all in vain. You have to remember, you are dealing with a "glass overflowing" girl here. None of this half full half empty nonsense.   

With love and respect
Huggs
Catherine

Catherine thank you very much on sharing your thoughts.  We have a nice sample of people and I use weighted averages to give composite scores.

Problem with surveys is there are many variables; however your reality is your reality and it is a pleasure to read your comments.

I blended genders and lost public high school math teacher position for an inner city.  I wanted to be prettier which ended my marriage of thirty years.  I told church that I am TG not TS and removed my membership.  I taught Sunday school for 12 years with my wife and their only concern was could my former spouse get credit for my donations.  I have tried to obtain some low end retail building  business jobs with no success.  I had a mentor write me he is not my friend after I shared my secret.

There are several friends in neighborhood that will not talk to me but many are very nice.

I have no place to live but back part of my home and family said I am an embarrassment and need to present man around neighborhood.  That is what I now do.

Then I know many in community that have suffered more; however, they have moved on and I continue to swim upstream.

Since many people have paved way for me I do not consider condition totally negative but rather negative.

[suzifrommd]

There are several friends in neighborhood that will not talk to me but many are very nice.

I have no place to live but back part of my home and family said I am an embarrassment and need to present man around neighborhood.  That is what I now do.

Then I know many in community that have suffered more; however, they have moved on and I continue to swim upstream.

Oh, Wendy, how awful. This sounds like a bad situation. Hope you can stay in touch with how special and beautiful you are in the face of such negativity.

You do NOT deserve this!

I hope you can find another job teaching math. There is such a shortage of good teachers. There are many people who would appreciate you.

Good luck and *Hugs*.

[wendy]

Oh, Wendy, how awful. This sounds like a bad situation. Hope you can stay in touch with how special and beautiful you are in the face of such negativity.

You do NOT deserve this!

I hope you can find another job teaching math. There is such a shortage of good teachers. There are many people who would appreciate you.

Thank you for your kindness but I am no saint.  Only my wife and children have a right to be angry at my inability to suppress my gender expression.  Rest of folks are just clueless.

[wendy]

With 40 replies it is time for a weighted average.  A score of 0 is totally neutral.  A score of 3 is everyone voted Highly Agree with statement.  A score of -3 means everyone voted Highly Disagree.

Weighted average was 2.3 which means that people were closer to Mostly Agree than Highly Agree for this sample.  Over half of sample voted Mostly Agree.  I predict that these numbers will remain relatively stable even if sample tripled.

[suzifrommd]

Only my wife and children have a right to be angry at my inability to suppress my gender expression.

Inability?

Oh, sweetie, that makes my heart hurt.

People weren't meant to live in an eternal state of denying who they are. True, your family may have a beef with fate, since they didn't sign up for a parent/husband with identity issues. But you have a basic human right to let your outsides express your insides. Before your insides eat you up.

None of this is your fault, either your identity issues or your need to address them.

[Ansley Ender]

It seems to me that the elderly generations and the now-in-their 20s generations seem to be the coolest with trans people. It's that 'middle age' people who give me the most grief... but maybe that's just where I live? I put mostly agree, because the media-reflection on the community is terrible. It's getting better, but it's still not good. Most of the younger are either open enough to be cool with it, or against their parent enough to be cool with it; and most of the older folks have seen so much nothing really bothers them anymore... Well, from what I've seen.

[Not-so Fat Admin]

I watch girls eat french fries and they eat one at a time.  I watch guys eat french fries and they grab handfuls and shovel them into mouth.  I watch girls load their fork about 1/3 of way up.  I watch guys load their fork and food is hanging over sides.  Women take a sip of water and guys guzzle it.

Swallowing a hot dog whole or licking platter clean might be of use one day.

............................

Survey says society judges Trans people in a negative manner.

True, lots of girls eat carefully and slowly. I think this has a lot more to do with fears over weight gain than manners though.


I voted 'mostly agree'. I don't think it's all bad.

[MariaMx]

It's a bit hard to say really. I pass pretty well so I really don't know how the majority would react but I would assume location would make a huge difference in how we are judged.

I feel fortunate for living in a very tolerant and liberal country (Norway). For example being openly homophobic here where I live is pretty much put you in the same boat as skinhead-nazis and racists. Also, being fired for being gay or transgender in this country is a sure win and cash settlement in a wrongful termination lawsuit.

As for transsexualism most people here just don't seem to care one way or another. The general view seems to be that transsexualism is just another medical condition some people are born with. If I talk to someone and they somehow should know or find out they just find it fascintating. It has not been sensationalized in the media and there is no Jerry Springer-ism surrounding transsexualism. Beyond the occasional mis-gendering and/or other common trans-faux pas committed by some random person ignorant on the matter I haven't had a single bad experience since I went full-time just under 9 years ago.

Judging by my own experiences I voted Mostly Disagree. I do however have mtf friends in other countries that have had tremendous difficulties on nearly a daily basis through out their transition.

[wendy]

Weighted average is 2.2 which still remains mostly agree.
.....................................

It seems to me that the elderly generations and the now-in-their 20s generations seem to be the coolest with trans people. It's that 'middle age' people who give me the most grief... but maybe that's just where I live? I put mostly agree, because the media-reflection on the community is terrible. It's getting better, but it's still not good. Most of the younger are either open enough to be cool with it, or against their parent enough to be cool with it; and most of the older folks have seen so much nothing really bothers them anymore... Well, from what I've seen.

Actually I have had biggest issues with middle age folks but I am middle aged.  Old people are most accepting and young people do not care.  However it is middle aged people that are in positions to hire or fire.

[wendy]

It's a bit hard to say really. I pass pretty well so I really don't know how the majority would react but I would assume location would make a huge difference in how we are judged.

I feel fortunate for living in a very tolerant and liberal country (Norway). For example being openly homophobic here where I live is pretty much put you in the same boat as skinhead-nazis and racists. Also, being fired for being gay or transgender in this country is a sure win and cash settlement in a wrongful termination lawsuit.

As for transsexualism most people here just don't seem to care one way or another. The general view seems to be that transsexualism is just another medical condition some people are born with. If I talk to someone and they somehow should know or find out they just find it fascintating. It has not been sensationalized in the media and there is no Jerry Springer-ism surrounding transsexualism. Beyond the occasional mis-gendering and/or other common trans-faux pas committed by some random person ignorant on the matter I haven't had a single bad experience since I went full-time just under 9 years ago.

Judging by my own experiences I voted Mostly Disagree. I do however have mtf friends in other countries that have had tremendous difficulties on nearly a daily basis through out their transition.

Passing does have big influence on how you are treated; however, you still know how other people treat TG folks in Norway.  TG is just a condition of life.  I have a Swedish name and I wonder if Scandinavia has more TG folks than general population or they are just more liberal.

[MariaMx]

Passing does have big influence on how you are treated; however, you still know how other people treat TG folks in Norway.  TG is just a condition of life. I have a Swedish name and I wonder if Scandinavia has more TG folks than general population or they are just more liberal.

I can't say for other Scandinavian countries but to me there seem to be few TG folk in Norway. While I was still under the care for the Norwegian GID clinic I never saw another patient there when I went to my appointments. As a matter of a fact I've never spoken to another  trans person in person here in Norway (at least that I'm aware of) and I can only remember having spotted two while out and about in the city the past 9 years. If the figure of 1 in 12000 is correct that would be about 400 trans people in the nation, although I've heard figures as high as 800. There's no real community that I'm aware of here, no trans clubs/bars and most certainly no parades. Maybe it's just me being ignorant or uninterested in this matter, I don't know.

I think it has more to do with Norway being a very liberal country than anything else. Also most people are atheists and those that believe mostly do so in a very moderate way. Personally I can't think of a single person I know that believes in God 

There seemingly being so few TG folk here and the rest of the population either being totally ignorant or uninterested in this aspect of life is great actually. People just aren't looking for us, don't know what to look for and/or never expect they will ever run into someone trans, so it makes life very easy. At least it does for me.

[wendy]

I can't say for other Scandinavian countries but to me there seem to be few TG folk in Norway. While I was still under the care for the Norwegian GID clinic I never saw another patient there when I went to my appointments. As a matter of a fact I've never spoken to another  trans person in person here in Norway (at least that I'm aware of) and I can only remember having spotted two while out and about in the city the past 9 years. If the figure of 1 in 12000 is correct that would be about 400 trans people in the nation, although I've heard figures as high as 800. There's no real community that I'm aware of here, no trans clubs/bars and most certainly no parades. Maybe it's just me being ignorant or uninterested in this matter, I don't know.

I think it has more to do with Norway being a very liberal country than anything else. Also most people are atheists and those that believe mostly do so in a very moderate way. Personally I can't think of a single person I know that believes in God 

There seemingly being so few TG folk here and the rest of the population either being totally ignorant or uninterested in this aspect of life is great actually. People just aren't looking for us, don't know what to look for and/or never expect they will ever run into someone trans, so it makes life very easy. At least it does for me.

Wow that's like no trans people in Norway if that is correct.

Our parades in United States are almost all gay/lesbian.  Trans people just hook onto parade because if they marched alone then it would be several people.  Atlanta sometimes leads country in gay/lesbian and has a rather large underground of trans.  A trans man walked up to me during march and introduced himself clearly indicating he could pick me out.  I am out but still present marginally boy mode in my neighborhood.  Trans people are tolerated and if you pass many trans move to friendly areas and become stealth.

I happen to believe in God but many trans friends have abandoned God.  I see some humans condemning trans folks but bible does not.  Christians can not follow 10 commandments yet some condemn others with their 11th commandment to not be trans.  I did not know that most of Norway does not believe in God.  Atheists are more accepting of variations in nature than people that claim to be God's children? 

[Sephirah]

Atheists are more accepting of variations in nature than people that claim to be God's children? 

I wouldn't say that. I think it's dependent on the individual and how they assimilate information they've been given. I know about as many so-called 'God's children' who are warm, friendly and very accepting of trans people as those who... aren't. I don't really want to get into the religious angle of it here because that's been mulled over many many times previously. What I would say though, is that there are some people who refuse to think for themselves, and use a set of rules written down in a very different time in order to judge people based on their own prejudices, using said rules as written authority to justify it. That isn't a reflection on everyone.

All things are shone like beams of light through the prism of one's mind, and split into many colours of differing perceptions through which we see the world.

It does, however, lead me onto what I think about the question in the subject line. I think that those who see something in a negative light, tend to be more forceful in their views and more prominent in their public exposure - maybe because of a subconscious need to get others to share those views in order for them to feel justified. If you accept something, you rarely feel the need to shout about it. It's just sort of a given. You get on with your life and let others get on with theirs. This might tip the balance and give the impression that something is viewed more negatively than it actually is, by virtue of the silent majority staying, well, silent.

If you walk down the street and get abuse by one ignorant butt-barnacle... do you notice that more than the several hundred people you may have walked by who never said a word or even gave you a second glance?

[suzifrommd]

I think that those who see something in a negative light, tend to be more forceful in their views and more prominent in their public exposure - maybe because of a subconscious need to get others to share those views in order for them to feel justified.

I've attributed it to fear. That kind of intolerance is often rooted in fear that their way of life is threatened. A lot of them see their outspokenness is a "the British are coming!" kind of warning to the rest of us who are sitting still in the face of such "threats".

[wendy]

If you walk down the street and get abuse by one ignorant butt-barnacle... do you notice that more than the several hundred people you may have walked by who never said a word or even gave you a second glance?

Sephirah very true indeed.  Yes I do know of religious people that are most accepting of me.  In fact some of nicest people have had significant adversity in life.

However employment seems to be issue.  An employer may feel a gender variant may make their workers or customers uncomfortable so that they would pick a non gender variant for position.

[Hippolover25]

I voted for slightly agree. I think that it depends on region and social climate of that region. All of the friends I've come out to are uber supportive of me; but my family, especially my dad, hates me now. So I also think that age and generation gaps play a role in the acceptance and tolerance. That's another concept that is important, acceptance vs. tolerance. One can accept that a person is transgendered or one can merely tolerate a transgendered person. And then of course on the other end of the spectrum we have rejection and hatred. In the middle of the scale sits apathy which may be the worst of all.

acceptance---tolerance---apathy---rejection---hatred

[MariaMx]

I did not know that most of Norway does not believe in God.

Norway is a very strange place when comes to religion, Christianity especially. On the surface there are lots of traditions and rituals here rooted in Christianity, but they seem mostly devoid of any religious content. An example would be Christian confirmation. Off the top of my head I would guess 8 out of 10 teens go through this. I didn't but most of my friends did, but non of them believe in God as far as I know. My friends get married in church in front of a priest, but they don't believe in God. My parents had both my brother and I baptized, but neither of them believe in God. It's all about tradition. The God part of the equation simply plays little or no part in peoples day to day lives.

Most of the people that I meet that do believe in God do so more in a deistic or pantheistic way. Often God is simply a symbol of the seeming divine nature of life and the universe, and Jesus was merely a philosopher of life or something. That said there certainly are people that believe in God in the more traditional sense here too, just not so many.

Atheists are more accepting of variations in nature than people that claim to be God's children?

I don't know. I think "atheism" is to broad a term to really make such a claim. It does however seem to me that homophobia, and transphobia for that matter, has a tendency to come from people with holy books in hand. I guess it's just easier to rationalize and perpetuate the hatred if you think it is being dictated by the creator of the universe. A few years ago same-sex marriage became legal in Norway and there was quiet a bit of public debate beforehand. The common denominator for those that opposed were that they were all religious, even those that didn't argue their case from a religious standpoint.