Author Topic: Transsexual Muslima  (Read 18792 times)

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Dryad

Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2010, 09:41:29 am »
"But if two lovers walk hand in hand, all their sins are forgiven." Muhammed.
The Quran teaches love and understanding, most of all. Even if that goes against some other verses in the Quran. It also states that no mortal is to judge the beliefs and behaviour of other people, unless they harm others with them.
Like the other holy books of Islam, namely: Torah, Tenach and the New Testament, it's not as easy as 'yes' or 'no.' It mostly depends on how you perceive God.
For instance: I know an Imam who, apart from getting people of all genders to pray in the same mosque hall, also tries to get homosexuality to be more accepted in his parish. He claims that both the Islamic ninety nine names and the hebrew JWHW can all be summed up as one single all-encompassing name: God is Love. And Love is God.

To sum it up: It really depends on the muslim you ask.

Fenrir

Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2010, 09:58:29 am »
Yes, I think that unfortunately in a lot of cases religion gets mixed up with culture and certain things (wearing of burkhas, arranged marriages, homophobia, transphobia etc.) become accepted as 'religious tradition' when in reality there isn't any religious backing for them.
Dryad, your Imam sounds cool.  ;D

confused

Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2010, 10:49:56 am »
to comment on the niqab and such , the niqab itself is not oppressive ,most countries (almost all) that have a majority of muslims dont force it to anyone , and even work against it trying to initiate laws that prohibit it in certain cases , the only country i know about that enforces the niqab is Saudi Arabia , and it's more of a traditional thing rather than religious , and enforcing anything without common sense or respect of freedom is indescribably wrong and a great deal of oppression and prosecution
on the other hand , there are some countries (with/without) muslims majority (e.g. Algeria ,France....) that prohibit or at least limit the waring of niqab , which also i think is wrong and also a great deal of oppression of freedom because in these countries it's clearly their choice and no one is forcing anyone to wear anything.  same as prohibiting a bio male/female to transition so thet they don't "fool" people , it's kinda funny and sad at the same time

so i agree that the real problem is with individuals and how they interpret their thoughts/believes . whether they were religious or not .

jaylasadorah

Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2011, 08:24:34 pm »
Can a convert transexual wear a  Hijab

mimpi

Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2011, 10:51:16 pm »
Can a convert transexual wear a  Hijab

Anyone can wear a hijab if they feel like it. :)

Do you mean to pray, do salat?

Offline Abstract

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Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2011, 01:17:22 am »
Asalaamu Alaikum.

I am now in a place where I am comfortable and happy in my womanhood. Then I found Islam. It feels right to me. The God I had prayed to all my life finally called to me one day and I realized that I had been Muslim all along. But does this religion accept someone like me? That is the struggle I find within myself now. I cannot back down from being female, and I cannot denounce my faith in Allah subhanu wa ta'ala!!! I will not do either. Where do I fit in this grand scheme of things as a Muslim transgender? What is God's plan for me? Why did He send me on these paths??

While I'm most blessed and happy that I have finally found the truth and right path... I cannot help but feel that being transgender is going to prove difficult in my relationships with other Muslims. I know mukhannathuns are referenced in the Qur'an, Hadith, and Surrah, but is there a place for us here?

I would not have become a follower of Islam had I not truly believed in the Shahada.  And I would not have transitioned had I not felt I was really a woman inside.  All of what I do is because I believe it to be so.  How do I handle the brothers and sisters who cannot accept?

I don't think that in the Qur'an that it makes any suggestion of negativity towards the <transgender>.
un fortunately those of any faith in trying to validify their dislike of a thing seek to find justification for that dislike in their faith.
however i am not aware of any negativity towards <transgender> in the qur'an, and so i would ask a person to point such out and justify their belief. And point out how Mohammad forbade the harm of the mukhannathun that he banished.

Though i imagine one looking hard might find some way to abstract that the qur'an says such and such and thus it follows that such and such is not good.... that is done all the time...
If you can think of a particular argument of how  one might say regarding islam that <transgender> is wrong I can do my best to provide a counter argument... i am decently versed in the qur'an... however I am not familier with all hadiths and not to a great extent any particular one (as of current)... personally i do not hold as much weight to them as I find that they are second source.

Off the top of my head I would start an argument by saying that "even if there are hints at it being bad, I would think that Mohammed would have pointed it out very explicitly if it was something we really needed to be that concerned about."

Or "Mohammad worked hard to give us clear signs, I would think the lack of clarity on this subject is sign that it is of no spiritual relevance."
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates
"Nature herself has imprinted on the minds of all the idea of God." -Cicero
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily believing it." -Aristotle

mimpi

Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2011, 08:34:28 pm »
There are hadith that hit hard on these issues, here's one:

Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) relates, that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) “Cursed those men who imitate women and those women who imitate men.”

(Sahih al-Bukhari, 7/205)

At the end of the day only Allah (swt) can judge us and that's where I myself put my hope and trust.

Of course if someone were to become a Muslim after having transitioned, or done anything at all for that matter, that's fine as all previous sins are forgiven. Unbeatable deal in my opinion but one not open to those of us who are already Muslim. Of course there are people out there who would attempt to refute this or perhaps say that one would have to detransition or whatever but can't see their argument holding from a strictly theological perspective.

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Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2011, 02:30:22 pm »
If you will accept a contribution from a non-Muslim who hold Islam in high regard.

I would read the Hadith in #26 as being those men who seek to imitate women for gain. Not people born with male parts yet who are clearly women in spirit. That's just a viewpoint and no insult is intended toward the scholars.

However, I will also point out that, in my fairly extensive look at Hadith, I found many that seem quite extreme, often out of keeping with the spirit of so much else. If I may suggest, Hadith need to be read in context and often is it quite difficult to find the context of something related through several previous people.

mimpi

Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2011, 05:53:02 am »
If you will accept a contribution from a non-Muslim who hold Islam in high regard.

I would read the Hadith in #26 as being those men who seek to imitate women for gain. Not people born with male parts yet who are clearly women in spirit. That's just a viewpoint and no insult is intended toward the scholars.

However, I will also point out that, in my fairly extensive look at Hadith, I found many that seem quite extreme, often out of keeping with the spirit of so much else. If I may suggest, Hadith need to be read in context and often is it quite difficult to find the context of something related through several previous people.

Heh, of course I accept the opinions of all :)

Not sure why you would read it that way, there's not really much to read it any way apart from what's there in my opinion.

Apart from looking up this particular hadith in the circumstances or others for specific reasons I haven't read a hadith for maybe 20 years and am not religious at all. To be perfectly frank my opinions around Islam are probably heretical and downright offensive to many. As I mentioned previously I still do Ramadan but that's about it.

If there was a model that we could hope to achieve it would be the one in Yogyakarta for me (see link below). On the other hand neither Indonesia nor Yogyakarta are representative of the Muslim world, try the same thing in Aceh Province and the s**t will hit the fan. Islam in Java is is really split into Santri and Abangan tendencies. Incidentally they represent the two colours of the national flag, white and red. Santri is traditional mosque based Sunni Islam and Abangan is heavily influenced by indonesian traditional beliefs and I don't really know that much about it. I was once married into an Indonesian family split down the middle on this and in the (way over the top) wedding photos one side of the family is lined up all hijabi and traditional while the other is lined up hair uncovered apart from jasmine flowers javanese style.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15137281,00.html

Offline spacial

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Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2011, 06:44:11 am »
Heh, of course I accept the opinions of all :)

Not sure why you would read it that way, there's not really much to read it any way apart from what's there in my opinion.


I understand your point. But I have noticed that many Muslims, recognised as devout, do indeed seem to be somewhat flexable with some hadith.

For example, there are numerous hadith referring to the necessity for a man to keep his beard, yet we know that many, accepted as devout and good Muslims do indeed appear clean shaven.

http://www.zikr.co.uk/content/view/54/94/

I'm only making this point to emphasise that many hadith are not necessarily take literally. It certainly isn't my place, nor intention, to question Islam.



mimpi

Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2011, 08:34:21 am »
Look, to give you an idea how things are my flatmate who is Muslim and a lesbian received just now a post on Facebook saying "Gays are not in the fold of Islam but it is for Allah (swt) to decide on them on the Day of Judgement".  That statement is is an oxymoron as it implies Takfir inherently.

As for the Sufi site you linked to I'm not into that kind of heavy stuff, there are more important things in this world than the length of people's beards. Allah (swt) knows what is our hearts, he is closer to us than our jugular vein (Quran) and only he can judge us.

I can accept condemnation for tattoos, sleeping around, dishonesty etc but not for being trans or for being not heterosexual in the conventional sense.

Offline spacial

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Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2011, 03:13:18 pm »
I apologise for the site. I appreciate that the approach of those groups is not necessarily shared by the majority.

However, I was simply attempting to demonstrate that most Muslims are quite flexable about how they interperate various hadith.

But I am not a Muslim. I have no wish to interfere. I was simply trying to offer some support in relation to #26.

Good luck.

mimpi

Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2011, 04:13:36 pm »
No worries, Spacial. Wasn't trying to upset you or contradict your point. I agree most of us are flexible on that issue-

Btw, I'm not getting post numbers here so am not to sure what you mean by #26. Are they activated by profile settings?

As far as I'm concerned you have every right as a non Muslim to ask or question anything you wish. Probably I'm not the best person to answer things but if there's anything you wish to know or ask I'll do my best to make sure I get an answer from someone more knowledgable than myself and get back to you.

Take care  :)

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Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2011, 07:51:54 pm »
Look, to give you an idea how things are my flatmate who is Muslim and a lesbian received just now a post on Facebook saying "Gays are not in the fold of Islam but it is for Allah (swt) to decide on them on the Day of Judgement".  That statement is is an oxymoron as it implies Takfir inherently.

As for the Sufi site you linked to I'm not into that kind of heavy stuff, there are more important things in this world than the length of people's beards. Allah (swt) knows what is our hearts, he is closer to us than our jugular vein (Quran) and only he can judge us.

I can accept condemnation for tattoos, sleeping around, dishonesty etc but not for being trans or for being not heterosexual in the conventional sense.

The fact that tattoos are banned may be a protection to prevent such things as the electronic RFID tattoos...
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates
"Nature herself has imprinted on the minds of all the idea of God." -Cicero
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily believing it." -Aristotle

mimpi

Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2011, 06:11:03 am »
Thankfully my tattoo predates RFID technology!

treeworshipper

Re: Transsexual Muslima
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2011, 11:49:55 pm »
"But if two lovers walk hand in hand, all their sins are forgiven." Muhammed.
The Quran teaches love and understanding, most of all. Even if that goes against some other verses in the Quran. It also states that no mortal is to judge the beliefs and behaviour of other people, unless they harm others with them.
Like the other holy books of Islam, namely: Torah, Tenach and the New Testament, it's not as easy as 'yes' or 'no.' It mostly depends on how you perceive God.
For instance: I know an Imam who, apart from getting people of all genders to pray in the same mosque hall, also tries to get homosexuality to be more accepted in his parish. He claims that both the Islamic ninety nine names and the hebrew JWHW can all be summed up as one single all-encompassing name: God is Love. And Love is God.

To sum it up: It really depends on the muslim you ask.

I LOVE YOU ALL!

Romeo Seeks Ophelia

Transsexual Muslima -
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2012, 09:55:33 pm »
Bisma'ALLAH Ir Rahmaan Raheem, As Salaam Alaikum
Sister this is so awesome ! Your not even gonna believe this, though I hope you do but I am a Shi'ite Muslim man and like you I pondered my own faith and I had questions and I'm Persian over who I am, and what "if's" all day. No I am NOT a TS girl I am a man who was worried as you are about "if's" too. Sister, you are no less of a woman, you are no less Muslim, and you are not bound for "Hellfire" I can assure you of this. What your going through is (please no one take offence) you see in America and all the Evangelistic thinking has created the idea that they know, they have the answers, everyone else has the real answers and no one knows and I mean no one. So how was I a German man of Persian decent finally close the book ? Easy as 1-2-3, Jesus (PBUH) said, “Judge Not, That Ye Be Not Judged” which means to man, "No man can Judge. Secondly, in the Al-Fâtiha it clearly states, "4.  Master of the Day of Judgment." note the word Sister MASTER So as Jesus (PBUH)  and the Al-Fâtiha should I hope bring you comfort it has to me. Look the world is full of lies, & Judges, this is mans greatest error, for not only Christians and Catholics, Mormons, and everyone else that has something to say we know as Muslims that there is only one G-D, ONE Judge, and this also was taken from Al-Fâtiha  "1.  In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful." and that is the key, well not the whole key the point is if you are worried don't be for it is only man on earth who continue the HATE Parade of Judgement and they have no place to reticule anyone. Sister I tell you as your brother, "Be true to oneself, yes fear ALLAH and his wrath but know he loves you as I do and to me and I don't know you but you stated, "Transsexual Muslima" the TS part isn't my point it's the word you used, "Muslima" so you are NOT my brother you ARE my Sister and I Love you and I am always going to have you in my prayers. Just don't let anyone tell you what G-D thinks or feels because no one living has ever laid eye's upon him and no man shall ever, I'm just so broken up about your feelings that I wish I could talk to you so you could hear my convictions and know I am not kidding. ALLAH loves you, he will always love you, and as sure as the sands of time are running out I know we together will enter Paradise side by side. Lastly something you should know, your flesh, skin and bone maybe at birth a boy but your soul is a woman 100% or else you wouldn't identify yourself as a woman. Email me Sister, no you can Yahoo me anytime my Yahoo ID is,  < ImSanFrancisco@yahoo.com > and my regular email that my mobile receives all day is -
< AShia4Life@gmail.com > know Sister I am always here for you. Usef Ali 313

This is for all who might have any questions as what the al-Fâtiha is, it is the OPENING or the KEY. The first inscription in the Holy Qur'an I didn't post it looking for a fight just wanted to so if anyone wanted to know.

al-Fâtiha

1.  In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
2.  Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the world;
3.  Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
4.  Master of the Day of Judgment.
5.  Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
6.  Show us the straight way,
7.  The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace,
     those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

Note I have no hate for anyone who Loves G-D so if your Jewish, Christian, Catholic or any other please don't think I am saying Islam is the only right faith, Islam is for those born to it and those like my Sister here was called to by G-D, ALLAH, Yahweh, Jehovah, Buddha or whatever name you have for G-D.

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