Author Topic: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?  (Read 20306 times)

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Offline Annah

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2011, 11:50:33 am »
I am going to remind you and everyone else who is posting here that this is a "POST-OP" Forum.   Then answers given should be reflected to be those of post-ops.

I know this. I am reflecting upon my own experiences. So my answers are valid.

Quote
The reaction of a potential partner and the reaction of a date with a straight guy depend a lot on what's in your panties.  If you are capable of normal male to female sexual intercourse, that's a completely difference issue than still having incorrect genitals for your outward appearance.

It can also have a lot to do with how the thing in your panties got there in the eyes of some potential partners.

Quote
I do not wish to portray anyone as better or worse than anyone else, I only want this Forum to be helpful to those seeking resolutions to post op issues. 

I agree; which is why I am giving my opinion on this matter. I think I am entitled to my opinion...unless my opinion doesn't count because Im post op whose opinions differ from yours.

Quote
Despite what many pre-ops will say, surgery does change the brain, it does change your life and it does change how you see sex.   A pre-op person simply cannot state how they will FEEL after surgery.    There is a reason that most of the post-ops have left this site and one of those reasons is that this truth is hooted down and those who communicate this truth are frequently attacked for saying it.

Post op may change the brain but it doesn't change the circumstances that some potential partners may feel about the subject. I am still here because I love the community and I enjoy giving advice. I am still me. One thing I promised myself was the fact that I would not become one of those girls who got the surgery and then feels that they need to have a crusade telling other trans they are not really girls yet until they had the surgery they just had. I am thankful I had not turned into that. Although, I believe it is a choice to be like that. Surgery has nothing to do with it. But that's for another topic.

Don't assume everyone here speaking contrary to your opinions are pre op. And this may sound very weird to some, but because I am post op doesn't mean I post only in the post op section or answer only post op questions. To me, the surgery and what happens after it is just a slice in the entire pie of the experience. I am still me post as i was prior to the surgery but my entire time here isn't talking purely about post op things; nor do I want it to be. Because there are two things I will never talk about here in great length: my physiological situation growing up and my surgery.

My family and boyfriend knows everything about me, I feel I don't have to extend that to everyone on the internet.

Offline Amazon D

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2011, 12:10:33 pm »
I am going to remind you and everyone else who is posting here that this is a "POST-OP" Forum.   Then answers given should be reflected to be those of post-ops.   

       The reaction of a potential partner and the reaction of a date with a straight guy depend a lot on what's in your panties.  If you are capable of normal male to female sexual intercourse, that's a completely difference issue than still having incorrect genitals for your outward appearance.

        I do not wish to portray anyone as better or worse than anyone else, I only want this Forum to be helpful to those seeking resolutions to post op issues.   

         Despite what many pre-ops will say, surgery does change the brain, it does change your life and it does change how you see sex.   A pre-op person simply cannot state how they will FEEL after surgery.    There is a reason that most of the post-ops have left this site and one of those reasons is that this truth is hooted down and those who communicate this truth are frequently attacked for saying it.

     

I'm in my 14th yr post op and have met many in real life who have dealt with this situation and first and foremost never tell and use another person as your way to find out if someone is trans friendly or else it might be your life that you lose..
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE


Offline JenJen2011

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2011, 12:15:15 pm »
I would take a page out of the book of women who were born infertile, who have had a hysterectomy, who have sustained an injury that caused them to be infertile, who have gone through menopause, etc.  I doubt any of them tell a some guy they are interested in all about their internal organs.

None of what you said is true for you though, so you'd be lying. Saying you were born infertile would just be a cover up for the actual truth, IMO.
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Offline Julie Marie

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2011, 12:25:33 pm »
Despite what many pre-ops will say, surgery does change the brain, it does change your life and it does change how you see sex.   A pre-op person simply cannot state how they will FEEL after surgery.

I certainly found this to be true.  Of all the things I did during my transition, nothing even came close to the effect GRS had on me as a person.  Pre-op I would have had a very different answer to the OP.  Today I see the need to disclose as a by-product of guilt, like I did something wrong so I have to confess.  I used to sort of feel that way but after living MY life for a while I realized I was carrying their stuff and I didn't need to.

I understand the real fear some nut case could cause you harm, but like any woman out there, we all have to choose our friends and partners carefully.  The dating process helps weed out the bad ones and that would include the phobes.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2011, 12:27:59 pm »
None of what you said is true for you though, so you'd be lying. Saying you were born infertile would just be a cover up for the actual truth, IMO.
I would have to agree. Such an answer is really only an option if you want to live an absolute Stealth-life in its fullest and not tell anyone, even your partner, but yet wants to give an 'explanation' for why you cannot become pregnant.

If someone however wants to give a"Trans-politically correct" although in many times true explanation, then they could always say that they were "born with TS", as a friend of mine put it.
Sounds a bit silly, I must admit, but technically, it is true for HBS-transsexuals that have had their feelings since childhood.

Some would probably not have a clue about what "TS" would mean anyway and just say; "Oh I'm so sorry". ::)

Offline Julie Marie

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2011, 12:34:23 pm »
None of what you said is true for you though, so you'd be lying. Saying you were born infertile would just be a cover up for the actual truth, IMO.

I had a misterectomy.   ::)  But really, I'm not suggesting lying.  What I am suggesting is simply saying, when the time comes, and that is usually only after the relationship starts to get serious, that you can't have children.  Let's face it, if you're on the first date with a guy and you even hint at anything related to having kids, for most guys that will be the last date.

For those who say, "I used to be a man" I feel compelled to ask, "Really?"
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2011, 12:52:05 pm »

For those who say, "I used to be a man" I feel compelled to ask, "Really?"

Like this? :laugh:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2flTCHU10ao#t=72s   

Re: Joyce

Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2011, 09:06:07 pm »
I know this. I am reflecting upon my own experiences. So my answers are valid.

It can also have a lot to do with how the thing in your panties got there in the eyes of some potential partners.

I agree; which is why I am giving my opinion on this matter. I think I am entitled to my opinion...unless my opinion doesn't count because Im post op whose opinions differ from yours.

Post op may change the brain but it doesn't change the circumstances that some potential partners may feel about the subject. I am still here because I love the community and I enjoy giving advice. I am still me. One thing I promised myself was the fact that I would not become one of those girls who got the surgery and then feels that they need to have a crusade telling other trans they are not really girls yet until they had the surgery they just had. I am thankful I had not turned into that. Although, I believe it is a choice to be like that. Surgery has nothing to do with it. But that's for another topic.

Don't assume everyone here speaking contrary to your opinions are pre op. And this may sound very weird to some, but because I am post op doesn't mean I post only in the post op section or answer only post op questions. To me, the surgery and what happens after it is just a slice in the entire pie of the experience. I am still me post as i was prior to the surgery but my entire time here isn't talking purely about post op things; nor do I want it to be. Because there are two things I will never talk about here in great length: my physiological situation growing up and my surgery.

My family and boyfriend knows everything about me, I feel I don't have to extend that to everyone on the internet.

Annah,

      I simply don't believe that you are post op.   You asked to be admitted to the private post op forum earlier in the year, stating that you only had X weeks to go until your surgery (I think it was 5 weeks).   You were turned down at that time.  I was not the only one who watched carefully as the time came and you continued posting every day and talking about attending your classes during this time.   You've not taken any breaks from school.   Strangely enough, that particular post of yours disappeared after you were called on it in a later discussion with another member.

       In short, your behavior is not consistent with someone who had major surgery during the time you said you were scheduled to have it. 

       It is of no consequence to me one way or the other.   It is also not my concern who disagrees with me or agrees with me, as I'm not here to win anyone over to my way of thinking.    I simply offer my perspective and my experience to those who may find something of value in it.

       Naturally, anyone here is apparently free to offer up opinions on any topic of their choosing.   It certainly does change the value of the post op forum when this happens. 

Offline Annah

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2011, 09:28:26 pm »
1. I deleted many posts that week because of two worthless trolls who decided to come back here and spouted out garbage and acted like asses whom decided to smite me and other people on every single post we made. Those posts were deleted because I refused to give them the childish enjoyment of finding other posts to attack. Trust me, it wasn't just in the post operative section. I deleted many that week.

2. As I stated before, it is no one's damn business here on the exact details, procedures, and dates to prove I had a surgery

3. I do not value nor do I take seriously the elite status on post op versus pre ops so I have nothing to gain or lose from stating I am post op in every post I make. Matter of fact, I avoid stating I am post op on Susans.org because of the negative outlook the post ops have here from the history of posts that some have made. Out of 1600+ posts I have made, I may have made about 10 references of my status. Both of my smites here have been made by post ops for defending pre ops against their bigotry.

4. Post op doesn't define me nor did pre op defined me. I define myself based upon who I am internally. So i don't go around making blogs and diary entries nor do I tell the world or these forums when I got a vagina. Nor will I lift up my skirt and pull down my panties or fax you a copy of my medical records to you or anyone else other than the State and Federal Government when I was required to show the records for my birth certificate.

5. If you have an issue with me then take it to me in PMs and don't hijack the thread with your conspiracy about my surgery.

6. If you do not believe me then that's fine. Trust me when I say this: I won't lose any sleep tonight because some forum member named Re:Joyce on the internet doesn't believe me.

Now, that's out of the way, the thread can continue and I will no longer hijack this thread to respond to this.

Offline Jennifer.L

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2011, 01:21:29 am »
*just started having sex*  Oh By The Way.....  Theres no way hes gonna pull out.

I'm joking lol  that could turn ugly.  but a few dates in, when hes mildly aroused.  That way the little boy friend will be thinking about your chest while his bigger brain is taking the T-girl stuff in.  Is that a horrible idea?  I honestly had my first strait guy try to pick me up last night.  I'm pre-op and well he wasn't my type.  So it was scary as hell.  So I'm kind of talking out my butt.
Live your life.


Offline Amazon D

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2011, 05:48:24 am »
1. I deleted many posts that week because of two worthless trolls who decided to come back here and spouted out garbage and acted like asses whom decided to smite me and other people on every single post we made. Those posts were deleted because I refused to give them the childish enjoyment of finding other posts to attack. Trust me, it wasn't just in the post operative section. I deleted many that week.

2. As I stated before, it is no one's damn business here on the exact details, procedures, and dates to prove I had a surgery

3. I do not value nor do I take seriously the elite status on post op versus pre ops so I have nothing to gain or lose from stating I am post op in every post I make. Matter of fact, I avoid stating I am post op on Susans.org because of the negative outlook the post ops have here from the history of posts that some have made. Out of 1600+ posts I have made, I may have made about 10 references of my status. Both of my smites here have been made by post ops for defending pre ops against their bigotry.

4. Post op doesn't define me nor did pre op defined me. I define myself based upon who I am internally. So i don't go around making blogs and diary entries nor do I tell the world or these forums when I got a vagina. Nor will I lift up my skirt and pull down my panties or fax you a copy of my medical records to you or anyone else other than the State and Federal Government when I was required to show the records for my birth certificate.

5. If you have an issue with me then take it to me in PMs and don't hijack the thread with your conspiracy about my surgery.

6. If you do not believe me then that's fine. Trust me when I say this: I won't lose any sleep tonight because some forum member named Re:Joyce on the internet doesn't believe me.

Now, that's out of the way, the thread can continue and I will no longer hijack this thread to respond to this.

I am sorry you are being harrassed. Many newly post ops think they have the total understanding of truth. (there are also a few long term post ops who have closed minds to changes in society) I know because i was one once. I am glad people today can be anything they want. I know i break post op stereotypes. Keep sharing and don't worry about the smites.. we all know you care and help.
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Offline AbraCadabra

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2011, 10:18:37 am »
It's how good you are, and comfortable you are, in maintaining a lie. A FAT lie.
Many ggs surpass me in that 'quality' to start with, I KNOW!
How on earth are you going to 'bend' all the things about your past without becoming some very, VERY accomplished liar?

If you can pull that off, and really think you will get away with it - for EVER... then go for it.
In my case I'm just too ‘simple’ to pull this of. So I would have to tell, more sooner - then later.

This is about REATIONSHIPS!  One-night-stands... ? You can become the Queen of Sheba for all that guy would care, you just a quick lay... - so long you fine by it, go with it :-)

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2011, 10:30:12 am »
It's how good you are, and comfortable you are, in maintaining a lie. A FAT lie.
Many ggs surpass me in that 'quality' to start with, I KNOW!
How on earth are you going to 'bend' all the things about your past without becoming some very, VERY accomplished liar?

If you can pull that off, and really think you will get away with it - for EVER... then go for it.
In my case I'm just too ‘simple’ to pull this of. So I would have to tell, more sooner - then later.

This is about REATIONSHIPS!  One-night-stands... ? You can become the Queen of Sheba for all that guy would care - so long you fine by it, go with it :-)

Axélle

I agree. It will be a heck of an re-invented back-history to a greater extent than most ts' thinking of it even realize.
Speaking of it, I knew a MTF once that had, after much back and forward-reasoning, descided to transition and not only that, but going super Stealth, too, by burning up exactly every picture from the life before as a male.
I acually adviced her not to do it as she one day would very likely risk regretting that she didn't have any pics whatsoever from her childhood, friends, family or anything, but she was totally adamant about it.

Anyway, I think the following clip gives the meaning of "Going Stealth" a very good description of what it actually means.
"Transproofed" starring Calpernia and Andrea James

Thriss

Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2011, 03:59:53 pm »
OK, hand up from everyone who responded to this thread who has *really been* in the situation the OP described.

Seriously, I've had one-night stands, minor relationships and longer relationships and if you are a few years post-op, your history will simply not be an issue in most situations unless you make it an issue. You are not living a lie because you can discuss pretty much every aspect of your present and your history without really giving away that you have had surgery. Most guys don't ask you about your period so you don't talk about it so to speak. All this while not lying.
If you disclose, you risk breaking stealth. This can be a huge problem for those of us who have gone to great extents to try to rid ourselves of the stigma of being a TS. It is a really, really, REALLY tough choice to decide whether the relationship is worth risking years of serenity knowing that you blend in. All that can be ruined if you disclose to a partner that decides to later out you. Is that relationship worth having to move, change jobs, friends, phone number and perhaps last name... AGAIN?
If you have not been in this situation then perhaps you can relate to a situation where someone disclose being gay to a close friend and said friend then goes on telling all of high-school about it. Or perhaps you yourselves have experienced when you first realized you were TS and had to "come out". You want to go through that again? As I read, that is a really tough situation (I never had to do that, different story...)
Life. As. You. Know. It. Ends.

My BF knows I can't have children. We never discussed why because I said I didn't want to talk about it. When we discuss childhood memories I never lie about them. They are mostly gender neutral anyway, aren't yours? We've been together a year and the only lie I ever told him that is even related to my past was that I had a period the night we met. And that lie I told because I didn't want to have sex that night.

It's true what someone wrote that some recent post-op act as know-it-alls but that feeling passes with time. After a few years you will simply stop caring about these issues for the most part. Some of us returns occasionally to forums like Susan's and when I read some of the replies to this thread I remember why... because post-op TOO need people to talk to in the same situation about certain experiences and problems. Key word there is "in the same situation" and not people with an opinion about a problem that is strictly hypothetical to them since they either are not post-op or either have not experienced the situation themselves.

Offline Annah

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2011, 04:05:06 pm »
Speaking of it, I knew a MTF once that had, after much back and forward-reasoning, descided to transition and not only that, but going super Stealth, too, by burning up exactly every picture from the life before as a male.
I acually adviced her not to do it as she one day would very likely risk regretting that she didn't have any pics whatsoever from her childhood, friends, family or anything, but she was totally adamant about it.

i agree with you about this point.

I knew a girl who did the same thing. She burnt photoalbums of herself in the fireplace ...pictures of her childhood years. Her mother pleaded with her to just give them to her but my friend wouldn't listen.

Some TS think that to go stealth you have to destroy any remnants of your life like a top secret spy. It doesn't have to be that complicated. However, if someone pursues a serious relationship then that's exactly what that person is doing: lying about their past, lying about their family, lying about why they can't do this or that, coming up with an excuse to not have their significant other (SO) visit them in the hospital for fear the doctors might "rat them out." 

I couldn't live like that. There has to be a balance between stealth where society and friends know you are a female through and through and going out on a limb and sharing your whole life with someone you could be romantically involved with. In my opinion, it's easier to tell your SO before any serious romance occurs than to keep secrets that would make a triple agent spy look like an amateur.

Axelle was also right that you have to be pretty damn good at lying if you plan on keeping important parts of your life from someone you love.

annette

Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2011, 04:11:39 pm »
I would not tell him straightaway as it might scare him off... First i would take the chance to get to know each other better. If we then still like each other I would tell him without feeling ashamed.
Sweetie is so right about this, especially the last part.....without feeling ashamed, that's very important, because you don't have anything to be ashamed for.
You're a woman and he felt in love with a woman, sure, a woman with an unique history and he can hear this history if you know eachother better.
What he gets is what he sees.
And it's true, after a few years you don't think about it anymore, why should you, you're a woman. living a womanly life.
If the guy can't handle it....he's not worth you.
To speak about my own experience, I have never been rejected by a partner, because of my history.
I'll hope this will give you some courage.

hugs
Annette

Offline ToriJo

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2011, 01:14:59 am »
As I'm an SO, my advice on this is not from the perspective of the girl, but from the man.  Feel free to discard what isn't good from it (even if that is all of it).

I think it depends on the type of relationship.  I can talk about mine.  My wife and I could be classified as "middle aged" when we met.  We were each other's first serious relationship.  Neither of us did the dating scene, neither of us wanted a quick fling.  We met at an event where we both shared a common interest.  I saw this very interesting person, and she likewise felt similarly about me.  So we arranged for a lunch after the event together.  We started corresponding and talking to each other, as friends.

Over a few weeks, it was clear to both of us that we were attracted to each other.  She told me about things she felt I needed to know, and I did the same.  This included a brief, non-detailed, explanation that she wasn't always seen as who she really was, but is now.  It was matter-of-fact and done confidently.  I won't say I was terribly surprised, nor will I say I ever considered dating anyone who didn't always have the right letter on her birth certificate.  But there was a real attraction there.

In addition, at this point, she knew enough about me to know how I respond to diversity.  I was glad she told me something she had no reason or need to tell me, but which is obviously something few would want to feel that they need to tell another person.  I felt it showed tremendous trust in who I am and how I would respond.  Since then, this trust has deepened our relationship - she can talk to me about her struggles, and I'm glad I can be a help to her when she's having a hard time in the world (just as I'm glad she can and does help me when I go through my own issues).  I feel that there would be a depth missing from our relationship without it - I might not know it, if she didn't tell me, but I'm glad she was willing to share.  Over time, we've both shared more about our past.  I know there is nothing I can tell her about my past which would change how she sees me, even the things I am not proud of.  Likewise, I believe she feels the same with me.

That said, it isn't my place to tell her or expect her to tell me anything she doesn't choose to.  That's part of my trust and respect for her - I trust my wife 100%.  If she doesn't tell me something, that's fine, I don't need to know.  I would be shocked if there was much she wouldn't be willing to tell me, but at the same time that comes from trust and respect, and cannot be demanded.

I would say for marriage and adoption in the USA, it's a good idea legally for the spouse to know.  It's also a good idea to remember that not all jurisdictions respect SRS or even changed birth certificates for purposes of marriage (so don't live or marry there if it would not be respected!).  That's something as a spouse that is important to me too, because I do not want to have our marriage placed at risk either.  I want to know my spouse will have no problem, for instance, claiming a life insurance policy if I die - even if the insurer doesn't want to pay up.

So...long post to say: you need to make your own decision, and you very well may do things differently - particularly if you aren't looking for a spouse!  I would say in closing to dump any guy that "needs" to know and to dump any guy that wouldn't be able to handle it.  You deserve what everyone does: a partner who loves and respects you.

missyzanta

Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2011, 10:53:35 am »
NEVER expose yourself to ANYONE.  Most of the men you will meet are just MEN.  They r they for the pleasure and thats it.  U will know when the time is right.  I have only revealed myself ONCE and that is the man I am with now.  I have had multiple partners and some have been suspicious but I will NEVA admit it.  No need 2.  You are a WOMAN TOTALLY and u r young.  You are still in child bearing yrs and a man might want children with you and that is the ONLY time u reveal yourself.  Why go through what u have gone through to relive the past and have a man LOOK at u differently.  The only way he WONT is if he sees the WOMAN you are internally and not view u as a street walking <not allowed> who thinks about nothing but performing oral sex on a man and moving on. 

It is a tricky subject BUT I told my man that i had a correction yrs ago and i was intersexed and it was something that did not define my womanhood.  He cried and was in shock but he loved the WOMAN i am, not what society says u might be.  But NEVER just run around telling men because if u do, the word will get out and you will be pushed right back to pre status and men will go into a relationship ie sexual, romantic etc, looking at u as being a man with a vagina INSTEAD of a WOMAN with a vagina..

U WILL KNOW IN YOUR HEART WHEN TO REVEAL YOUR PAST but just a fly by night romance, NO NEED.

Offline Annah

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Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2011, 02:53:18 pm »
You are a WOMAN TOTALLY and u r young.  You are still in child bearing yrs and a man might want children with you and that is the ONLY time u reveal yourself. 

If you're in a relationship to the point where your partner is talking about having children with you and you have never told him or her, it's going to make yourself look like a deceiver.

This isn't against you. Men or women who have been kept in the dark that long will have every right to walk away from the relationship because they would feel that they weren't worthy enough of your trust and they will feel that you were lying to them.

If stealth is that important to you then that's your path. With me, I get it out in the open so I don't have to worry about it down the road. And I have never run into someone blowing my stealth because of it.

It's a touch and go issue. But i personally will take my chances to let them know after they ask me out rather than making my family and friends lie to the one who loves me for years on end.

Mahsa Tezani

Re: How do you tell a man you're trans if you pass completely?
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2011, 03:05:04 pm »

It is a tricky subject BUT I told my man that i had a correction yrs ago and i was intersexed and it was something that did not define my womanhood.  He cried and was in shock but he loved the WOMAN i am, not what society says u might be.  But NEVER just run around telling men because if u do, the word will get out and you will be pushed right back to pre status and men will go into a relationship ie sexual, romantic etc, looking at u as being a man with a vagina INSTEAD of a WOMAN with a vagina..

The difference between a drag queen on hormones and a transgirl is perspective. One sees them mentally as a female, the other does not...no matter how convincing the appearance may be. Therefore realistically, we can hope for society to respect us despite the contrary.

Sorry hun, I can't ignore my past...and I don't expect a man to do so. I can't deny who I was once was and I don't expect anyone else to keep up the delusion that I was never was a whoring fag.

Getting any form of surgery can't change who I was raised as or lived as at one time. I'd rather be at peace with my own past...as opposed to completely denying I was "never that man". Therefore, I prefer a man who loves me be either gay or bisexual...

Plus men who kiss other men are hot. I know, because I used to be a man shoving his tongue down a throat of another man.

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