Author Topic: Seven years in psychotherapy for non-GD issues...  (Read 2027 times)

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Offline AbraCadabra

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Seven years in psychotherapy for non-GD issues...
« on: September 25, 2012, 09:07:44 am »
I just learned that sad truth by yet another acquaintance of mine... it sounds like some of those Woody Allen items... like the perpetually therapy seeking neurotic.

Isn't that proof that the present state of psychotherapy has somehow lost it's worth, it's healing impact?

More than once I've now come across this sort of thing which sounds more like "Kaffeklatsch" than anything to move a patient along a path of recovery and greater well-being.

It strikes me as a capped system of money-making under the umbrella of health-improvement.

Am I just seeing the "psychotherapy doesn't work sign" flashing to brightly?

Axélle
PS: even when I went through numerous such therapies… I would say with the exception of “Primal Therapy” they were as useful as talking thing over with a friend,-  at best…
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Offline suzifrommd

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Re: Seven years in psychotherapy for non-GD issues...
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2012, 10:18:47 am »
I think there can be a dependence that happens when an unhappy person sees a therapist and sees some improvement. It becomes hard to cut ties. Therapists, as you point out, have no economic incentive to discourage this.

I've had therapists who have offered me wise insights that have literally changed my life. I've had equally many therapists who've done nothing for me, and quite a few who've left me worse than when I started.
 
That's one of the reasons it bothers me that medical rules encode requirements that TG people get "permission" from therapists before proceeding with certain aspects of their transition. We should be given some option to forego contacts with therapists altogether.
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Offline Beth Andrea

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Re: Seven years in psychotherapy for non-GD issues...
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2012, 10:59:59 am »
I used to think of therapy as nothing more than having a "paid ear" to listen to my problems. (I'd gone to a few--3 or 4--when I was much younger, teens and early 20's).

Now I'm grateful that there are people who are willing to be such a thing. I've noticed a big difference in me, not only in improvement but also by a willingness to open myself up and to hear what the therapist has asked, rather than trying to guess "why did he ask that? What sort of answer does he want from me?"

But, I can see the potential for self-interest on the part of the therapist as well. They have no incentive to see their patient healed...other than pride in a job well done. As for lack of patients to replace the healed, there's no shortage of them, either.

The length of time in therapy depends on the condition, and how quickly the person allows himself to be healed. Mental health is different than physical health...one cannot simply change bandages and apply ointments to prevent infections. Sometimes the particular aspect that one needs in order to be healed (such as trust, forgiveness for self, etc) is simply not there. I've found a couple things (such as trust) that I needed to have learned as a child...but never did, due to family/social circumstances.  Can I learn it as an adult? Perhaps the mechanics of it, but it will always be as an adult, without the emotional innocence of a child.

Some things are simply lost, or shattered beyond recognition. It takes time to learn a skill, then shoe-horn into a damaged mind.

My apologies...I have rambled.
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Offline spacial

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Re: Seven years in psychotherapy for non-GD issues...
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2012, 06:23:27 am »
It will do, what it is designed to do. But sadly, many users and a lot therapists delude themselves into thinking it can ever be a cure.

Life is <poo>. It's the same <poo> for everyone. There is no cure since there is nothing wrong. It's <poo> because it's meant to be.

At the end of the day, it's how you deal with your life. Sicne everyone has the same <poo>, it's not very likely anyone is ever going to be in the least sympathetic to yours.

Sorry, it sounds really blunt. The different terms and tricks are just that and  no more.

It's a bit like stopping smoking. You never forget cigarettes. You never stop wanting one. You just don't do it and kinda wish you never had.

Offline spacial

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Re: Seven years in psychotherapy for non-GD issues...
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2012, 06:54:14 am »
Understand and your point about learning then using what you've learnt is well made.

Offline peky

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Re: Seven years in psychotherapy for non-GD issues...
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2012, 12:59:24 pm »
I just learned that sad truth by yet another acquaintance of mine... it sounds like some of those Woody Allen items... like the perpetually therapy seeking neurotic.

Axélle
PS: even when I went through numerous such therapies… I would say with the exception of “Primal Therapy” they were as useful as talking thing over with a friend,-  at best…

Just a couple of anecdotal second -hand experiences do not make a "TRUTH"

It takes a body of data and the concurrence from a body of qualified psychiatrist backed by a psychiatric organization to disqualify a therapy

Offline sigmafan

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Re: Seven years in psychotherapy for non-GD issues...
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 02:10:45 pm »
I've been in and out of counseling and various other therapies since I was 5 when I went to family counseling, anger management throughout elementary and middle school, and even today when I go see a counselor to talk about my depression, which I still suffer from.  It does help me get through the month and my belief is that it'll make me a better person.

But I think the answer to your question is that it does help you heal, it is also a "Your Mileage of healing Varies" situation.  Sometimes going to a counselor or psychologist or psychiatrist helps a lot, but then again sometimes it doesn't work at all.  I have a friend who runs his own counseling service in Seattle.  He does say that some people do heal wonderfully through services, whereas others don't.

Offline peky

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Re: Seven years in psychotherapy for non-GD issues...
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 03:29:36 pm »
Yes, my life as a database... the expression "sad truth" is just that, an expression based on one’s own experiences.

Maybe English has not the same meaning in different parts of the world...

If EVERYTHING we'd wish to talk about needed "a body of data and the concurrence from a body of qualified psychiatrist..." as you suggest…

We would have a VERY quiet time around here. Very quiet in deed, as we be constantly trying to verify our experiences against "verifiable scientific data".

I do NOT think that my experiences are THAT extraordinary and special, for that reason I feel comfortable to speak about them without the need of science at every turn.

Just my opinion, my perception, because that... is all I can say really happened for me.

Scientific data is just that DATA.
Once interpreted, it is the interpreter that enters the stage and the results... well, they tend to depend AT LOT on the interpreter.

Food for thought,
Axélle
PS: you may have noticed that science is not quite the all-knowing all rational perfection to me - I have simply seen to may “scientific re-evaluations" in interpreting data to make this my ultimate believe system.
Do you honestly expect to obtain data from the parties interested to “look good” – that would refute this “looking good”?
THAT… takes more innocent scientific believe, than what I have on offer.
Maybe I worked just too long in the consulting industry…

Oh, Honey, I did not mean to hurt your feelings. Do you remember the thread about "lying"? You seem so adamant about how we should tell the truth no matter what, tell it like it is, even when others including me, told you about the altruistic lies, white lies, etc. You dismissed all of our opinions. You insisted that the truth shall be spoken even without regard to the other person feelings! 

Well, I just told you like it is: you cannot make a dismissive  blanket statement about psychiatric therapy just because of your personal experience, especially considering that there are a lot of people in this forum who need that therapy. Not good advice in my humble opinion.

Offline peky

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Re: Seven years in psychotherapy for non-GD issues...
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2012, 02:24:20 pm »
I agree in that LIFE happens to be WHAT IT IS, call what you wish.
If one makes it all bad and twisted because one was taught the 'wrong' things... and it results in 'wrong' expectations, opposing values, getting all neurotic about that - some insight therapy is not a bad thing to “set one’s head straight”.

But HOW SLOW a learner is one to be, going on for YEARS... and STILL in need to be told over and again, where it’s at?!
“Games people play?”

I was there after about two or so years. The next therapist I went to said: "You done with therapy... now go out and use what you learned..."
I think he was right, as much as I was not all with him at the time.

So, again... seven (7) years and still treading water and no tangible improvement...
That was my enquiry, not whether therapy can have benefits...

Axélle

So, Yeah, the language can be a problem, we speak American here.  :laugh:

So may be it is a German problem, see below

Psychotherapy Research
Volume 13, Issue 2, 2003
Effectiveness of Psychotherapy in Germany: A Replication of the Consumer Report Study
DOI: 10.1080/713869642
S. Hartmann & S. Zepf
pages 235-242
Version of record first published: 23 Apr 2010
Abstract
The authors performed a systematic replication of the 1994 American Consumer Report (CR) study in the Federal Republic of Germany. The German study aimed at assessing the effectiveness of several kinds of psychotherapeutic treatment of psychological disturbances from the patients' viewpoint. The original CR study questionnaire was distributed to patients with the support of Stiftung Warentest. The data analysis followed the same patterns of the CR study using its multivariate outcome scale. Essentially, the results of the CR study were reproduced. However, there were the several deviations: In the German study, patients assessed treatment given by family physicians as more negative, and male patients viewed their treatment as less effective. Because of this near replication of results in Germany, the authors observed that the CR study data are not specific for the United States but can have more global applications.

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