Author Topic: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"  (Read 6686 times)

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Offline Anatta

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UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« on: March 08, 2013, 12:30:01 pm »
Kia Ora,

Just something to ponder...

What is 'unconditional love' ?

 And how does one express it ?

In other words, have you ever experienced or expressed it ?

When I think of my children, family and friends mutual  'unconditional' love comes to mind...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:

Brooke777

Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2013, 12:34:08 pm »
I have it, experience it, and express it everyday with my son. All other forms of love in my life are conditional. My son is the one exception. I express it by being the best parent I can possibly be. He expresses it to me, by being the best son he could possibly be. Everything we do for one another is a way to express our love. There need not be any extravagant expression or gesture, it is us being us.

Offline spring0721

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2013, 12:39:00 pm »
I agree with Brooke, my son is just about the only one I've ever had 'unconditional love' for. No matter what he did he could NEVER change my love for him.  However people, even a spouse or best friend can do things that change your feelings for them no matter how much you loved them. If they hit you, cheat on you, lie to you etc. It's hard to keep loving someone that would hurt you badly.
People are people, treat everyone with the same respect and courtesy that you want to receive.

Offline Anatta

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2013, 12:50:30 pm »
I have it, experience it, and express it everyday with my son. All other forms of love in my life are conditional. My son is the one exception. I express it by being the best parent I can possibly be. He expresses it to me, by being the best son he could possibly be. Everything we do for one another is a way to express our love. There need not be any extravagant expression or gesture, it is us being us.

Kia Ora Brooke,

That's so true, which reminds me of a poem about acceptance of what 'is' :

"Whether the weather is cold-whether the weather is hot-We'll weather the weather whatever the weather-Whether we like it or not !"


I agree with Brooke, my son is just about the only one I've ever had 'unconditional love' for. No matter what he did he could NEVER change my love for him.  However people, even a spouse or best friend can do things that change your feelings for them no matter how much you loved them. If they hit you, cheat on you, lie to you etc. It's hard to keep loving someone that would hurt you badly.

Kia Ora Spring,

I have dear friends whom I have known for over forty years [one I went to primary school with so 50 years] they have shown their unconditional love and acceptance towards me...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:

Offline spring0721

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2013, 12:58:11 pm »
Kuan yin,

I am happy you have such amazing friends! I too have an amazing best friend, I just meant as a hypothetical...a friend (to me anyway) could sever the way I feel about them....for example if I were married and my best friend slept with my hypothetical husband....I don't know that I would still feel the same about either of them. But my child it wouldn't matter who he was/what he did, my love just would not change. But I do understand your deep love for your friends:)
People are people, treat everyone with the same respect and courtesy that you want to receive.

Ms. OBrien

Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2013, 01:00:58 pm »
Anyone can experience unconditional love, even if you never had a child.  Adopt or foster an animal.  Dogs and cats can show love.  Even small pocket pets can show it.

And as always spay or neuter.

Offline Anatta

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2013, 01:04:52 pm »
Anyone can experience unconditional love, even if you never had a child.  Adopt or foster an animal.  Dogs and cats can show love.  Even small pocket pets can show it.

And as always spay or neuter.

Kia Ora Ms O,

One can't really find anything more unconditional than a dog's love of its human companion !

Metta Zenda
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:

Brooke777

Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2013, 01:05:58 pm »
And as always spay or neuter.

Thanks Bob.  ;D

Ms. OBrien

Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2013, 01:13:37 pm »

Offline Anatta

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2013, 01:16:13 pm »
Kuan yin,

I am happy you have such amazing friends! I too have an amazing best friend, I just meant as a hypothetical...a friend (to me anyway) could sever the way I feel about them....for example if I were married and my best friend slept with my hypothetical husband....I don't know that I would still feel the same about either of them. But my child it wouldn't matter who he was/what he did, my love just would not change. But I do understand your deep love for your friends:)

Kia Ora Spring,

That's true, it's like the old saying "Blood is thicker than water" there's a special bond between parent and child, but sadly it would seem for some young [and not so young] members this bond has been severed, or perhaps it never was there in the first place...


Even though my ex and I are not what one would call 'friends' unconditional love[in one form or another] still prevails, perhaps it's because of the unconditional love we both share for our children-we still care about each other...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:

Offline spring0721

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2013, 01:20:18 pm »
Kia Ora Spring,

That's true, it's like the old saying "Blood is thicker than water" there's a special bond between parent and child, but sadly it would seem for some young [and not so young] members this bond has been severed, or perhaps it never was there in the first place...


Even though my ex and I are not what one would call 'friends' unconditional love[in one form or another] still prevails, perhaps it's because of the unconditional love we both share for our children-we still care about each other...

Metta Zenda :)

Kuan yin,

I really like that sentiment :) good for you and your children, children deserve their parents to get along well together and coparent whether they're in a romantic relationship or not.  I will try to take my cues from you as someone who has probably been a parent for longer than I! :)
People are people, treat everyone with the same respect and courtesy that you want to receive.

~RoadToTrista~

Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2013, 01:39:00 pm »
It means you'll always try to love them even if you don't agree with what they've done. Whether they're gay, trans, in a relationship you don't agree with, a pregnant teen, any type of felon, or just an <jerk>.

Offline Angela???

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2013, 04:49:05 pm »
At this point I have 5 children 19,18,17,9 and 6 months.

No matter what they do it will never change that I love my children with all my heart. This I tell my children all the time, so they know I love them. If I don't say then how will they know?

As far as some parents go, they should be shot!!!!!!! I see it in my own town, were parents put themselves first. My oldest son has been through this with his mother, when he was younger. He lived with me and had to travel 3 hours one way to see his mum. She would spend the weekend reading a book and taking no notice of her son! My son became very upset and refused to go to his mums place. I didn't push him, but I did ring his mother 3 times and asked her to spend time with our son and still nothing happened!
So I was the big nasty prick and rang his mum and cut sick, I did not hold back with the abuse I gave her, I really let her have it! She was destroying my son and I would not allow this to happen! Plus I had asked nicely 3 times!
He was not wanting to see his mother ever again, he was that upset!
My daughter came up the following weekend and asked what I had said to her mother? I asked why was that? Her responce was "Well mum hung the phone up and threw it across the room and burst into tears!". So i explained what was going on, seeing she is my oldest.
This was the best thing that I could have done for my son, cause he now has a really good relationship with his mother!

For me as a single dad and now as a married father/mother, my children come first. I have gone without food and worn, wornout clothes to make sure my children have what they need. Going without is what any good parent should do. I can now no longer sacrifice the things I want to do I need to be me!  I stay home and look after our 6 month old,  my wife works and is willing to work to pay for anything that I require for my transition, I love my wife! My wife wants nothing more that to see me truly happy, this would be a real big first for me! I have never been truly happy through my life, but that is going to change! I personally can no longer hide the true me, IT'S KILLING ME TO DO SO! I want to live, I want to be happy and I want to be the the real me!
Coming out to my GP was a big thing for me, I have only ever spoken freely to my wife about how I am trapped. I now have an appointment for counseling!
Straight after going to the GP, my wife dragged me into Victoria's cosmetic's to speak to the staff about removing my beard (YES I say, I hate shaving, itchy if I shave and itchy if I don't, can't win but I will!).
So having wife's like we have is sooooooo great! My wife talks about all the things that she can do to help with my transition. She wants to can me Angela and call me her etc. but I have not talked to my family yet, so she is holding back at the moment.

My life is in a spin at this point, things are happening so the tunnel is not so dark. I have a very very very supportive wife who is my best friend. My  wife loves the idea of me having breasts ( wish I had them already!) and turning into a women. She is happy to spend what ever it takes to make me passable as a woman. Lucky I wont need too much surgery on my face. I don't have a big brow, just a big nose that will be sorted. My jaw is not overly male , lucky me I say. And my Adams apple is not very big at all!

We are lucky girls to have wife's that want us happy.

To me this is unconditional love, for my wife love's the real me not the cover on the outside, just as I love her for the person I see on the inside. We are going to stay together through my transition and beyond, we love each other and are there for each other through thick or thin, we will be together for the rest of our lives!

We are lucky people to have accepting and loving people in our life's. For me, even if the only person that supports me in my transition is my wife, it wont matter, I will still transition. We will start the transition and then move to a different state, as I want to start living as a woman full time when we move, not to have people remember her as he!

Angela
I'm a girl, I always knew!
Now it's time to stop hidding and show the world who I really am!

Offline Anatta

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2013, 06:33:53 pm »
Kia Ora,

One[of many] ways to look at it, is unconditional love is when one does not 'give up' on a person when they no longer fit neatly into the box of their somewhat pre-conceived expectations, instead they adapt to the changes as the person's character and personality changes and evolves ...They go with the flow of the situation, so to speak...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:

Offline Anatta

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2013, 06:57:15 pm »
From the average human, all love is conditional. Very few people are capable of unconditional love. Many think they show unconditional love, but they don't.

Unconditional love seems more like indifference to those who have not experienced it personally.

Kia Ora Bailey,

I would agree that very few can express 'open' unconditional love for 'all' sentient beings...However for many parents and their children  unconditional love is the only love they express and receive...Perhaps it's built-in, that is, we are pre-programmed with this 'emotional' bond/connection, which is reinforce as time goes on...

But I guess for some unfortunate people, they might never really know nor begin to understand what unconditional love is all about...

Sadly there are some people who have never experienced what it really feels like to 'love' or be loved, which has lead to many becoming highly suspicious when someone shows kindness and or affection towards them...It can take many years to break through this emotional protective barrier... 

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:

Offline Anatta

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2013, 07:15:37 pm »
Love is unconditional. You put conditions on other things, not love.

Kia Ora Kkut,

It would be nice if love was unconditional but as one knows through past experience, love quite often and easily can turn to hate...

Sadly there's a thin line which separates love/hate...And many people in relationships go back and forth across this line on a daily bases...Some decide to spend more time on one side than the other...Some once across[to the hate side] might never return...This is when 'conditional love' is involved...

Hatred can not find a home when 'Unconditional' love is involved...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:

Offline Anatta

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2013, 07:39:03 pm »
Kia Ora Bailey

Defining what 'love' is is not an easy task ,but here's the basics

 Quote :
Love = An emotion of a strong affection and personal attachment. which is also said to be a virtue representing all of human kindness, compassion and affection—the unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another".[2] Love may describe compassionate and affectionate actions towards other humans, one's self or animals...

Unconditional=No 'conditions/strings' attached to the above...In other words one can never 'fall "out" of "unconditional" love'

“You come to love not by finding the perfect person, but by seeing an imperfect person perfectly.”

To reiterate the contents of the first post-so we are all on track : [bearing in mind it is the individual's personal take on it]

"Just something to ponder...

What is 'unconditional love' ?

 And how does one express it ?

In other words, have you ever experienced or expressed it ?

When I think of my children, family and friends mutual  'unconditional' love comes to mind!
"

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:

Offline Anatta

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2013, 01:09:08 am »
Kia Ora,

Sorry Bailey I was not quite sure what it was you were after, perhaps this is more of what you were looking for :
 
This definition is my personal take on what it means for me…So I'm not asking anyone to agree with this definition…


"Unconditional love is in a sense the unbreakable/unshakable bond of loyalty one has towards other people and or one another-normally some blood relative parent/child…But not necessarily so...

Examples of this are :

It is a well known fact that some parents will stand by their child/ren even when they know that the child has done something terrible/despicable, such as murdered someone in cold blood or raped someone…

Also that some parents have and are willing to sacrifice their life in order to save their child/ren"

I could never envisage not loving my children...

Sadly it would seem for some parents their love and loyalties lie elsewhere, like with their church and or religious community, where their unconditional love [based upon 'blind faith'] seems to lie. and if one of their children were to displays signs of "non-conforming" behaviour , they would rather disown their own flesh and blood than to go against the community or church doctrine ...Their love for their children is 'conditional' "Conform or else !"

* Susan's has been down for a couple of hours... I did post another comment but it must be still floating in cyber space...*

Metta Zenda :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 02:46:07 am by Kuan Yin »
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:

Offline Anatta

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2013, 01:22:43 am »
That definition is severely flawed besides the fact that is has about eight separate definitions mashed into one.

  • Emotions are fleeting and subject to change, therefore "love" changes.
But a positive emotional thinking pattern can be constant
  • Affection and personal attachment are fleeting and subject to change.
True... but this too relates to how a person 'thinks'
  • Virtue is a social construct and subject change.
True
  • Unselfishness does not exist. Everyone is selfish, all the time, without exception. The majority will argue otherwise, but cannot back it.
This would depend on what 'self' is-does a permanent unchanging self really exist ?

That definition of love doesn't stand. There is one definition. Let us find it.

Kia Ora Bailey,

If you 'think' about it, emotions are just that... 'emotions' - Love is an emotion - hate is an emotion and the only difference between them are the "thoughts" generated to feed the feelings...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:

Offline MadelineB

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Re: UNCONDITIONAL "LOVE"
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2013, 04:56:28 am »
I've had a bit of experience with unconditional love, since I am one of those odd human beings for whom it is their default way of relating to people. (I wouldn't recommend it, by the way, unless you have a very high tolerance for pain).
I won't argue semantics, however fun that may be, but will just offer something I learned from a long life of loving living (and formerly living) beings. I will summarize with the mantra I wrote 22 years ago to remind myself of the lesson:

Love can be unconditional; relationships must never be.

What this means to me is that I can love another creature with my whole heart holding nothing back, and this can be a blessing in my life as well as theirs- a complete and irrevocable dedication to their health, well being, freedom from suffering, freedom to choose, and a life filled with meaning and purpose. However, true love to me must always be tempered, not in its feeling, but in its expression (how it affects our actions) by considerations of what is right, what is appropriate, what is fitting, what is fair, what leads to long term growth and well being for all involved vs what creates an imbalanced, parasitic, or exploitive relationship.

True love is always adapting to circumstance and to the changing of the hearts/minds/souls/bodies/lives of the beings involved. (When love becomes rigid/frozen/unbending it becomes destructive, and morphs into something that no longer acts like love at all.)

Unconditional love requires that our relationships change as the people in the relationship, and their circumstances, change.

If I love you, I only want a relationship between us that is healthy for us both, and conducive to both our long term well-beings.

There are times when true, unconditional love requires one to withhold their affection, encouragement, approval, or support because to continue it would do harm to the person loved. I have been on both ends of this, and it isn't pleasant, but can attest that it can be necessary.

There are even times when true, unconditional love REQUIRES that a relationship with the one you love be severed.

In my experience, unconditional relationships are always doomed to hurt the lover and the loved, and in the end to destroy the love that was there.
History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again.
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