Author Topic: Trans acceptance among devout Muslims.  (Read 4791 times)

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Offline Ltl89

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Trans acceptance among devout Muslims.
« on: August 07, 2013, 03:31:15 pm »
I wanted to ask a question to those of you who are Muslim or familiar with the teachings of Islam.  While I am not religious myself, someone important to me is considering converting to Islam, and I feel concerned about how I may be viewed in their eyes.  As of now, they are accepting of me and are okay with it.  I have no problem with them converting if that is what they feel is for the best, but I don't want this to tear our relationship apart.  Because they will be following things to the letter, I am concerned about the possibility of them having children and them being forbid to see me.  So does anyone know how it is viewed?  In particular, does anyone have knowledge on how Muslims from North African countries typically view transgender individuals.  I know it probably isn't favorable, judging from my limited research, but I'm desperate as it's important to me in case this person decides to convert and spend their life practicing a new lifestyle. 

P.S.  I know it is sort of a vague post, but I don't want to disclose too much information for privacy reasons and the sake of anonymity.  It's sort of a sensitive topic for the public forum, so I can't divulge too much.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 03:59:51 pm by Jamie D »

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Re: Trans acceptance amoung devout Muslims.
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2013, 03:41:38 pm »
Go to the Wiki and type "Islam" in the search box.  (I just did)  There are pages for many countries with the laws for each nation.
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Offline King Malachite

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Re: Trans acceptance amoung devout Muslims.
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2013, 03:52:02 pm »
Please take this with a grain of salt, as I am not a Muslim so I'm pretty ignorant on a lot of their teachings, but from what I've read about certain laws in countries that practice Islam, is that some of them pay for a person to transition in order to avoid homosexuality so in that sense, it seems like they might be a tad more leniant to you if you now consider yourself a straight female.

Again, I'm pretty ignorant on the topic but it would be interesting for those here who practice Islam to chime in.
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Offline Ltl89

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Re: Trans acceptance amoung devout Muslims.
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2013, 03:54:45 pm »
Go to the Wiki and type "Islam" in the search box.  (I just did)  There are pages for many countries with the laws for each nation.

I've done that.  Let's say that things are not good for LGBT individuals in this area.  I know for a fact that being gay is seen to be an abomination in this particular interpretation which strikes me as odd because this person is very supportive of gays.  However, I am holding out hope that there may be some informal acceptance or tolerance of transgender individuals that doesn't reflect in the laws or the general perception of the culture.  Though in this particular case, it's unlikely. 

I know it's all vague, but I can only say so much in case without possibility outing myself in case it's read by some who are familiar with the situation. 

Please take this with a grain of salt, as I am not a Muslim so I'm pretty ignorant on a lot of their teachings, but from what I've read about certain laws in countries that practice Islam, is that some of them pay for a person to transition in order to avoid homosexuality so in that sense, it seems like they might be a tad more leniant to you if you now consider yourself a straight female.

Again, I'm pretty ignorant on the topic but it would be interesting for those here who practice Islam to chime in.

Yeah, that's not the case in this country or culture from what I have read. 

Offline MariaMx

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Re: Trans acceptance among devout Muslims.
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2013, 04:18:49 pm »
It all depends really. I was a member on a muslim forum for about 5 years and in a heated discussion about gay rights I blurted it out (I was totally anonymous so it made little difference). Some were okay with it but generally they reacted pretty much the same way conservative Christians tend to do.

I will say though that a lot of them supported medical transition and srs, but their definition of who were "true transsexuals" was extremely narrow that no-one would ever qualify for treatment. Sounded like doublespeak to me.
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Offline Ltl89

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Re: Trans acceptance among devout Muslims.
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2013, 11:09:01 pm »
It all depends really. I was a member on a muslim forum for about 5 years and in a heated discussion about gay rights I blurted it out (I was totally anonymous so it made little difference). Some were okay with it but generally they reacted pretty much the same way conservative Christians tend to do.

I will say though that a lot of them supported medical transition and srs, but their definition of who were "true transsexuals" was extremely narrow that no-one would ever qualify for treatment. Sounded like doublespeak to me.

Yeah, that's what I find.  They accept SRS and transsexualism for a very small minority of people.  Essentially, they expect you to be a stereotypical flamboyant caricature in order to qualify.  Still, I know there are possibly more liberal interpretations and open individuals even in the devout communities.  Nonetheless, this is worrying me.

Offline Catalina

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Re: Trans acceptance among devout Muslims.
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2013, 07:02:20 pm »
As far as I know, Muslims in general seem to be better with people who are transitioned and are straight, rather than any form of homosexuality in general. I went to a queer Muslim conference once and met a lovely Arab couple who were Muslim: the man being a transman, with his girlfriend. They were really cute together! They were with each other before, and also with each other after. As far as I know, it just looks so much better for heterosexuality, whether trans or cis, than it is with homosexuality.

Plus, my friend is a wonderful not-so-dedicated Muslimah (female Muslim) and she is pretty accepting of me.  :P Time to time we go to the bathroom together for safety and a chat!

Now as a person quite familiar with Islamic teachings, there is nothing really in the Qur'an or hadith (even though I don't believe in hadith) concerning <transgender> or transsexualism at all. While homosexuality has been classically considered a choice, transsexualism is considered something akin to a birth defect. There are a few classical Islamic scholars regarding being a 'mukhannath' or 'khuntha'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhannathun)

The Prophet Muhammad himself (peace be upon him) protected these mukhannathun.

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 41, Number 4910:
"Narrated Abu Hurayrah: A mukhannath who had dyed his hands and feet with henna was brought to the Prophet (peace be upon him).
He asked: What is the matter with this man?
He was told: Apostle of God! He affects women's get-up.

So the Prophet ordered regarding him and he was banished to an-Naqi'.
The people said: Apostle of God! Should we not kill him?
He said: I have been prohibited from killing people who pray.

[Abu Usamah said: Naqi' is a region near Medina and not a Baqi (in other words not referring to Jannat al-Baqi cemetery. Indicating they were not punished.)']"

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Offline Salman67

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Re: Trans acceptance among devout Muslims.
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2013, 02:28:46 am »
I am muslim and to be honest in the quran it doesnt mention anything about transsexuality so after i did some research i found out that it is not haram. In countries like Iran the government actually has the srs  program for people who need to transition because they say homosexuality is forbidden but not transsexuality.

This is my personal opinion; when i read the quran i felt like god is just testing me in a different way and if i am true to him then i dont have to worry what a sheikh in a mosque says. God is the only one who will judge you and according to the quran he is the most kind and most merciful, so if you put allah first in your life then you will never be last in anything.
Transsexuality is not forbidden in islam and i think it is time for most of the muslims to wake up.

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Offline Natkat

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Re: Trans acceptance among devout Muslims.
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2013, 03:34:15 pm »
I know nothing about people in north africa. I haven't found forbidding transexualiety in islam, I live in a muslim area and I haven't experience trouble for that, some mtf friends of mine have had some staring and so while for me I felt way more worse in the typical white-men areas.

for me its not what you belive but how you belive, you can be accepting christian muslim or whatever, and you can be very unaccepting.



 

Offline Ltl89

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Re: Trans acceptance among devout Muslims.
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2013, 03:45:39 pm »
Yeah, it's nothing to do with the religion itself, but the individual interpretation of a particular region and/or division of Islam.  I'm pretty sure this will become an issue if this person converts and decides to amalgamate two very different families into one.  I have no issue with the religion (other than the same complaints that I have with most organized religions), but I do fear this will make problems between this person and me in the future.  We may very well be separated permanently in the future and I fear that I may not be allowed near their kids if this occurs.  It's just not knowing the impact this other family will have on my loved one and our relationship.  They are already forcing a conversion on my loved one, so who knows what other standards come next. 

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