Author Topic: It's not multiple choice!  (Read 8972 times)

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elleane

It's not multiple choice!
« on: December 06, 2005, 12:25:30 pm »
What do you do when:

* you don't know whether you're mentally/psychologically male or female or both
* you don't know  what it means to be 'male' or 'female' - what does that mean? is it a socio-cultural notion, is it physical/biological?
* you didn't know from the age of 3 you were 'born in the wrong body'
* you did find crossdressing a turn-on in the past - in fact you still do sometimes.  but at the same time you can't
help feeling that it's 'right'.
* you've spent so long living in one gender that it's hard to think how life could be in transition
* you're acutely aware of the pressures to conform to a gender stereotype once and if you make a decision re: transition (or not)
 ("OK so I know I'm a (wo)man - so that must mean that I should look like this and act like that...but hang on - actually I don't want to act like that...")
* you feel like a fake - but you're not sure what 'genuine' might be - if indeed genuine exists at all
* you feel you need to live up to a particular image (gender & personality) for friends and family - and admittedly it does feel satisfying when you are respected in that role.
* you constantly question your motivations for anything you do or feel - a complete lack of self-trust on your 'feelings' about gender
* you ask yourselves all these questions but regardless of how you look at it, 'search yourself', - no answers are forthcoming.
* you are completely frustrated by all of this and it's driving you insane and has landed you in hospital in the past.

* you just don't see yourself ever fitting the dictionary definitions of 'gender type/condition' (it's not multiple choice, is it?....is it?!)

 ???

Terri-Gene

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2005, 03:52:25 pm »
elleane, from your post you don't sound much different from a great many tG peoples.  You can only go by what feels "right" to you.  All the negative feelings in a full transsexual are due to the environment around them teaching that such things are wrong and that they have responsibilities and commitments that must be met and to transition is not only immoral, but selfish in regards to family and friends who must also deal with it and thier relationship to the TG and other people in regards to it.

It is perfectly normal and also because of invironment and interest due not necessarily consider themselves of the opposite sex from early age, after all, cross sex behavior may be considered "cute" at very early ages, but there is always a consistant negativity about it which increases througout life, which tends to make one avoid such thoughts and actions, but the feelings increase with age, thats why so many come out around middle age, when they become more prone to examine thier own interests.

Confusion about these issues and the desire to do what is right in regards to your family and friends is Noble and honerable, but if one has true GID, it can be extreamly dangerous to ones self if not treated, so yes, a therapyst is a necessity to help sort if out if the confusion is taking any personal toll on your life, activities and general peace of mind.

At the stage you discribe, any good, reputable therapyst can help you to focus and look realistically at your feelings, most therapyst, regardless of familiarity with TG or TS are perfectly qualified and able to determine a gender disorder and refer you to a more experienced person in this field.  If you can easily find a specialist in Gender disorders, use them, but if you can't, or need to use insurance which doesn't recognize TG or TS problems specifically, then do not let all the advice from others about absolutly needing a specialsit slow you down from getting help.  After all, Gender disorders are generally a combination of many conditions aside from Gender Dysphoria, the most prominant being depression and low self esteem, as society tells you that you are crazy or perverted, which natureally makes you resistant to admitting such a condition even to yourself.

The longer you wait to deal with the problem, the harder it is to address, even if you fully accept yourself for what you are because of the responsibilities you have and fear of lossing jobs and respect of others.  While some manage to come through and keep all they had at the beginning, many or most end up losing virtually all they had or can ever expect to aquire again.  To go on you have to realize that from the beginning and achieving your Gender goals must be most important to your goals in life or you will not be able to go into transition, or if you do, complete it.  It is one of those things that you must within yourself be fully convinced of and actually need in order to live to make it through If you are truely TS.  If you are one of the derivitives of TG you may find it possible to find a middle ground that is satisphying to you without actually coming out to anyone, quite unlike a true TS person.  If you decide that there is no actual need to come completly out to all and any and actually live in the female role, you can not hide your condition from any one at all for any reason or fear of possible losses, but if you are TG, you may hide this fact from any and all except those that that have a RIGHT to know by virtue of thier association with you, such as a wife or someone you live with.  Witholding this information will make things extreamly complicated if discovered, and in a live-in relationship, that is all to possible and they will believe you have Lied to them even if was by ommisision and will complicate the relationship.  It is true that to tell may possibly mean the end of the relationship, but if not told, it will only be harder to save the relationship when and if they discover it down the road,  and they generally will one way or another.

Find the best therapyst you can and just work on your feelings about yourself and those feelings and deal with whatever the therapyst can properly address to get more in touch with yourself before making any decisions about what you are, or what you need to do about it and if they therapyst determines you do have any kind of gender dysorder, then do what you can about a specialist who understands how Gender Dysphoria relates to almost every other aspect of your life.

Good luck and consider that you are perfectly free to create threads her to describe your feelings and talk them out with others here.  Information that is given to you may be solid gold, or worthless depending on the actual condition and experience of the source, but it is all useful for giving you things to think about and clarify your own thoughts about yourself.

Good luck and consider every thing you do and say carefully, thoughtfully, cautiously and truthfully.

Terri

Leigh

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2005, 06:58:51 pm »
Quote
* you just don't see yourself ever fitting the dictionary definitions of 'gender type/condition' (it's not multiple choice, is it?....is it?!)

Just because almost everything you see in the movies, television and documentaries show the sterotypical transitioner:  June Cleaver in the dress and apron does not mean that is the norm.    How many women spend their day in a dress unless it is work related?

Its June or the unsavory image cast out by the jerry springers that people expect to see.  If a person is neither then why conform to those images.  Make your own destiny by being who you are.

Women come in more flavors than Baskin Robbins.

Leigh

DawnL

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2005, 05:30:25 am »
Women come in more flavors than Baskin Robbins.

Amen!

Dawn


Sophie

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2005, 12:21:41 pm »
I agree with many of the points you made...

* you don't know whether you're mentally/psychologically male or female or both
* you don't know  what it means to be 'male' or 'female' - what does that mean? is it a socio-cultural notion, is it physical/biological?
* you didn't know from the age of 3 you were 'born in the wrong body'
* you feel like a fake - but you're not sure what 'genuine' might be - if indeed genuine exists at all
* you feel you need to live up to a particular image (gender & personality) for friends and family - and admittedly it does feel satisfying when you are respected in that role.
* you constantly question your motivations for anything you do or feel - a complete lack of self-trust on your 'feelings' about gender
* you ask yourselves all these questions but regardless of how you look at it, 'search yourself', - no answers are forthcoming.

Yeah, we both need to see therapists.

Northern Jane

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2005, 01:27:16 pm »
Quote
Make your own destiny by being who you are ....
Women come in more flavors than Baskin Robbins.


*** Jane licks back of hand ***

Rather have ice cream. . . .
« Last Edit: December 07, 2005, 09:48:43 pm by Cassandra »

Debtv

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2005, 10:11:36 am »
Hi elleane,

I have felt all the things you talk about here. I know its hard and confussing.

But in my view...it not just either/or and it is multiple choice, at least for me. I am both genders, or at least somwhere inbetween. For me to overcome all those bad feelings, I came out and live mostly enfemme, but dress endrab to make my life easier (ya know at work and around most family)

Is it that I'm a fake women...or man? No it is not. It is that was born a man with a strong femme side too. Rather than being neither...I am both!

Good just to you hon, and just realize that nothing is just black or white.

Love
DebTV

Shelley

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2005, 01:01:30 pm »
Quote
Is it that I'm a fake women...or man? No it is not. It is that was born a man with a strong femme side too. Rather than being neither...I am both!

I have to agree with Deb here especially for the CD's this a very good description of our lives.

Shelley

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Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2005, 03:30:27 pm »
If we try to fit into categories that others define, then we will never be ourselves.  In her seminal feminist work, "The Second Sex", Simone de Beauvoir argued that one of the great sources of frustration for women was that they were forced to fit into a definition of "femininity" that was largely defined by men.  She and other feminists have been very successful in redefining our cultural expectations for women.  "Liberation" is first of all a liberation from the self-imposed limitations that come from fitting our individuality into a cultural stereotype.  I think that we who are TG can learn a lot from the feminist movement.  There are many different ways of being masculine or feminine.  Might I add that there are many different ways of being TG.  Just look at the variety of individuals who visit this site.  :)

[edit] fixed messed up quote tag[/edit]
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 11:13:35 pm by elleane »

alleigh

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2005, 07:03:10 pm »
Ignore everything out there, you can be anything!  We assume we have to fit into common molds, buy a dumb house in the suburbs and whittle away our lives at nothing--don't listen!!

DawnL

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2005, 05:39:17 am »
...you would go through the same process as a transsexual including starting by going to a therapist.  By seeing a therapist first, you can work out what you want to do.  They can help you decide if transition is right for you.  After all, they are there to help you with your problems, whether that means transition or just sorting out stuff in your life.

Unable to avoid a label here, if she is transsexual, she will transition, there won't much in the way of a decision.  The therapist will try and help her do it in an intelligent and measured way.  If she isn't, I hope she decides not to transition because it ain't easy and will certainly exact a toll in the process as you yourself are now finding, Melissa. 

I have a fear that trans may become trendy sometime in the near future and will draw in all sorts of misguided people and the result will not be good.  Elleane, therapy is a good thing, take your time, do what you must even if it is fighting conventional wisdom so long as you do it intelligently and well informed of the risks.

Dawn

kristina

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2005, 10:19:19 am »
hi Elleane-

I'd like to share my thoughts with you and hope they help you feel better.
Trying to figure this out on your own is just too big a task for most of us.
I lived with those feelings- like yours, bottled up inside me for years trying to figure them out and ended up having a major breakdown and spending 10 precious years in the medicated world of the dead. After recovering- I ended up here. Finally after taking everyones advice i found professional help- it might take you a few times to find a good therapist you connect with, but its well worth it. It was the best thing i ever did. Finally now at at 54 things are just starting to look up and i can move on with my life after years of feeling trapped & confused.

~Kristina~



Terri-Gene

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2005, 02:20:17 pm »
Quote
it much harder to go through therapy with them weeding out fakes
 

And this hasn't been a major problem from the beginning of HRT/SRS Transitons and the negative publicity that has caused after such proceedures by those with FADS and Fakes who simply misunderstood themselves and what such proceedures were really about?

Terri


Sophie

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2005, 04:39:06 am »
I have a fear that trans may become trendy sometime in the near future and will draw in all sorts of misguided people and the result will not be good. 

I think that's true... you know, it's alread a weird sort of "fashion" among the Scene Kids (Look it up on Wiki...) to be bisexual, so it's not at all unlikely. Just the nature of those people, it's something they would do... I'm not looking forward to it. :-\

DawnL

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2005, 07:53:26 am »
It's not a fashion trend and I don't mean to suggest that people will actually do all those things but you'll have people who think they want to.  Trans is still largely regarded as a freak show and the number of trendy role models is essentially zero.  Should "Transamerica" become a hit or Felicity Huffman win the Oscar, it could gain an odd sort of cool.  In the long run, trans will see wider acceptance and that certainly won't be a 100% positive thing. Actually, I hope I'm wrong.

Dawn



« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 11:14:50 pm by elleane »

Shelley

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2005, 03:55:06 pm »
I believe that there is 'class trend' creaping into this thread. The question I would ask is if the only ones who need therapy and access to sites like this are the 'true trans' and the rest can be dismissed as fakes then why have therapy.

The point of therapy I believe is to help the individual discover where in the spectrum that they reside and to provide help in gaining self understanding and direction from there. If an individual is 100% sure and ready to go through transition why would they need support groups to deal with confusion? Good luck I say but don't look down on your sisters and brothers trying to find their path in life.

I know that some don't hold that CD's belong to the TG spectrum and the discrimination I have faced in the past has rammed that home. I can live with that outside and even here but when we start to create second class citizens who do not yet know whether they are TG or not and those who do are we not discriminating ourselves. Is this not what we choose to damn the outside world for.

The danger that I see is not that we will have 'non believers' or 'unwashed' amongst but that an individual reaching out for help will be turned away to what could be dire consequences.

Maybe rightly or wrongly I have espoused to new members here that this is a place where you can try on the experiences of others to see if they fit and that you can do this in a non-threatening safe environment without judgement. This is my belief. Am I wrong, are we worried that some misguided individuals may invade our domain and cause people to misunderstand us more? Firstly is this possible, secondly should we be judging others as to whether they are truly TG or just misguided. Is that not their journey and do we not profess to help them on that journey through the sharing of our own experiences.   

This post may seem more forceful than my usual but I have to say the moment that I see someone trying to put themselves above another or stating categorically that they know what another is thinking or that they reinterpret what another has said or profess to know all and dismiss others I find my temperature rising.

You want to know what I think? I think we are all individuals and we are all passing through one point to get to another. Where we are going is dependent on us. We have shared some points in the past and may share more in the future. Right now however we are at one point here at Susan's.

Susan provided a haven for us on our individual journeys. She has created a site that makes us feel safe an allows us to interchange information in a friendly atmosphere. For this I am greatful beyond her imagining.

Many of you don't see what transpires in the background to ensure the safety of the individuals who visit this site. I am priviledged to do so. I mean priviledged, I am one who is allowed to participate in that part of the managent of this site. I feel therefore that the insite that I have provided is with a little experience. Not as much as some here but none the less with some experience.

I would ask then that in the spirit of this site that we all sit back and consider why we are here and what we like about being here. I would also ask that we accept that we share a point in time and that who we would like that point to be with. For me I would like to share it with others who come here seeking help and guidance and with my friends here at Susan's who I have grown to love very deeply and who are a very important part of my life. My friends who I have come to know as accepting of me because I'm me.

Shelley

Sorry this messsage was so long it's just been busting to get out for a little while.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 11:15:45 pm by elleane »

DawnL

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2005, 12:59:56 am »
I am not espousing elitism. Any suggestion about trans becoming trendy was to suggest that people outside the transgender community might be drawn to it, thinking being trans is cool.  Misguided is way different than trend-following.  If people want to crossdress and gender bend because it's cool, I don't care but if too many people decide they need surgery on a whim or to be cool--that is a problem.

Dawn



Posted at: December 11, 2005, 12:50:50 AM

I believe that there is 'class trend' creaping into this thread. The question I would ask is if the only ones who need therapy and access to sites like this are the 'true trans' and the rest can be dismissed as fakes then why have therapy.

There was no class trend, it was an observation, and wasn't meant to denigrate anyone.  I think you read way too much into a couple of comments on trans being trendy or cool.  I don't see that anyone said anything about who might or might not need treatment besides you.  Fakes and the misguided have always been an issue and will continue to be.  Stating that isn't an elitist statement, it's just another observation.  In your statement above, you make a huge assumption about the intent of this discussion to establish something like a "true trans".  Nobody said anything like that.  Therapy is for everyone, nobody said otherwise.  SRS is not for everyone, mistakes there can have wide repercussions.

For all we know, trans becoming trendy might just be a good thing. I doubt it, but who knows.

Dawn

« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 11:17:54 pm by elleane »

Shelley

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2005, 01:43:12 am »
Hi Dawn,

None of what I said was directed at you personally but more at the direction the conversation was going. It was a compilation of things that had been said of late that I thought was being encapsulated in that conversation. In fact I found what you were saying was fairly even handed.

Shelley

Terri-Gene

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2005, 03:21:36 am »
Quote
if too many people decide they need surgery on a whim or to be cool--that is a problem.  Please don't read something into my posts that wasn't there.  I was only making an observation

Good statement Dawn, but for those who do not understand the bottom line TS outlook on life, it's hard to understand them ever understanding the outlook.  They can't really, even if they think they do.  You just have to be awfully careful how you state the truths a full Dysphoric feels in life so when you can, you have to think about how you say things in a mixed environment, as since they have no way to really understand, most will all to often take it wrong or Elietist.

Careful with your words when you can be and think it out before posting it when you can, and I know how hard that can be at times, but it is a must that a lot of TS peoples have a hard time learning, myself a lot to much also.

Terri

Terri-Gene

Re: It's not multiple choice!
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2005, 03:11:09 am »
There are some highly specific needs and consiquences between a surgically bound TS and other gender forms that do not seek such full time conversion with no chance of returning to where they came from at the beginning.

The labels we use, as stated and discussed often enough in these forums, is nothing more then our own beliefs in what type of Gender form we really are inside of ourselves, and to most all I have ever met consider themselves to be woman in mans body or man in womens body to those that require the full extent, including hair reduction or increasement, HRT and SRS (of course Females may not need much more then breast reduction to achieve malehood due to the much higher cost of surgery in thier case which at present is no where near as good as is available for males)  The term as used in general though, to the greatest many of mainstream public isn't as specific as it is to a Cd or TS.  The public sees us as all the same, just some with different needs, but we can all see the falsehood of such statements.  We simply are what we are and we are all different in our specific thinking and actions depending on our moods and life trials.

I know that at past times I was solely in favor of all the way TS's, but for some time now have reconsidered much or all of my feelings, emotions and way of thinking, making me much more inquisitive and accepting of others who will never share some of my basic beliefs in life and trials.  But at least in more recent times I stop and listen a little and by doing so understand more of things which are not and can not make real sense to me, but I meet enough people who share those beliefs, even though I never completely will.

There is no All of us in how transition works.  What is "transition for some out there makes no sense what so ever to others and that is simply how it is in real world time and events.  We each work  by and through our own methods.  Each to his/her own, even if actual outcome is virtually the same in each case, just arrived at by different means and stress.

Pay enough attention to the various theads around here and for the most part you will see that type of thinking very self evident.  Many here have been through all this, CD or TS that we have come to a kind of agreement about it.  We may not fully understand it all, even in our own cases, but we do our best to at least try, even if we will never really understand it all ourselves, but for the most part we do try, as best we can.

As to not wanting to impose any gender on anyone ish to impose any sort of gender categorisation on them.  I would beg to differ no that completely.  For me, I am what I am.  There are both good and bad parts of that, I can only do my best to eliminate the bad parts with more understanding and compenation of the good parts, thereby eliminating the bad as much as possible within the most reasonable time.  I can't think of anything better to say about that, it's just the way it is to me at least.

Agree, Disagree or be Indifferent.  It matters little to me other then the fact that the more I can talk to others, the better I understand myself, my motives and my failures for whatever reasons.

terri
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 11:21:58 pm by elleane »

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