Author Topic: MtF Young Transition - Problems and Questions  (Read 2386 times)

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Offline TransGirlBarbie

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MtF Young Transition - Problems and Questions
« on: October 05, 2014, 01:35:36 pm »
So I will give a synopsis of my transition so you can get a better idea. And yes, I'm far older so I don't think I'm breaking any of the rules. I will not discuss exact dosages on the public forum. This is a long post giving you an insight of what I experienced during HRT, and questions will follow just to give you an overall outlook on why I feel frustrated and to help you in giving me an accurate answer to questions.

I started transitioning in my Sophomore year when my adam's apple started coming in. At that time, it was about a year after I came out to my parents. They weren't making efforts to see a doctor about blockers until I started having panic attacks and pushed them to let me see an endo because I could feel my adams apple coming in. It wasn't apparent unless I extended my neck back or if you touched my neck you could feel a little bump. She started me on a really low dosage of blockers (aldactone) from March 2013 until November 2013.

Effects were apparent within the next few days of starting them. I noticed I would wake up with less oil on my face, significantly less than before and i used to wake up every morning with a lot of oil. 3 days into taking them, it was 95% gone. Within the first month, my breasts started getting painful and tender. I had giant breast buds on such a low dosage, and I wasn't on anything else at that time so effects were very apparent and I would think my body would react perfectly. They were in a lot of pain for a long period of time, about 3-4 months but the pain subsided. My adam's apple also decreased in size. My skin got smoother somewhat. My voice kind of got higher for some reason. And yes, for those people who say voices don't change, they can. My endocrinologist is known for transgender care and told me. She also tells me shoe sizes won't change, but I used to wear a men's 9 & woman's 10 in heeels, and now I'm a men's 7 1/2 & women's 8 1/2 to 9 1/2 for heels, so thats debatable.

In November 2013, she started me on a very low dose of oral estradiol and doubled my blocker to a somewhat normal dose. I started taking these and in June of 2014, I went in for a follow-up, she took my blood and doubled the dose of my estrogen. Still, it's extremely low and I voiced to her how nothing has changed since I began. A month after my appointment, she told me my results were really good. She said my T levels were lower than expected and my estrogen levels were in the 60s range. Probably higher because of the higher dose since then. And that was shocking to me, because sometimes I forgot to take my hormones. In fact I do have a horrible tendency to forget taking them.

However, my face doesn't look much different than when I started, infact I think it looks a little manlier than before, and I wasn't really manly looking to begin with. I have male-like structure, but I have really feminine features. Some people say I look a little bit more feminine than I Did before, but I don't see it. I never had a problem with facial hair, but now my facial hair is full on beard, grows back fast, and darker and thicker. Again, I barely had any facial hair to start with and i barely shaved. I'm 5'8", 144 lbs now, I started at 5'7" at 110-115 lbs. You'd think that all the weight I've gained would go to my face or something but it hasn't. I don't even think my breasts have grown the slightest bit bigger and they aren't as tender as they were when I started blockers. I dont think they're a full cup size yet and it's almost been a year. No nipple development at all, they look the same size to me, although the areola is a little bit bigger than before. I do feel the fat in them and I can pull them together to make cleavage, but they aren't round and if I don't pull them together, they look like a males chest kind of. Facial hair is still a bigger problem too like I said. My thighs, arms, butt, and legs have definitely lost muscle and filled with fat, but my thighs look skinnier and feel slimmer. I didnt have steroid muscled legs either as I didn't workout much. I gain weight in my stomach too mostly.

But anyway, the biggest concerns/questions I have are listed below;
1. Since I'm on a low dose, will it take me longer to transition than those you see on youtube over 2 years of transition?
2. My breasts aren't developing much on a low dose. I told this to my doctor and asked her if I could start on a dose 4x the dose she originally started me on and she said no. (I asked her when I was on that original dose.) Will they develop with a higher dose? They feel sensitive at times, but not constantly like they did with my blockers and buds.
3. Does breast pain stop after the buds? Like is there any sort of developing pain to signify they're still growing?
4. My family is known for perky, full and big chests, and thick bodies (not fat, but curvy). My sister's 5'4" and shes a 34C, my mom is a 40DD. I'm 5'8, I wear 34C (but I dont have the tissue to fill it, I just stuff them for a bigger chest. Don't really know what bra size I am, don't really think I am a size tbh). Would it be safe to say that my genetics will rule in favor for a bigger chest? within a cup size of my sister?
5. Will adding Progesterone help my body develop faster or better? Will it help my breasts fill out?
6. I'm not moody much, estrogen never really made me more emotional. I do feel more emotions at sad parts of movies and stuff, but it doesn't make me cry. Is that normal?
7. What facial changes can I expect? I think my cheek bones are bigger, but I don't really see a significant change to my face. In fact, I think it's definitely skinnier than before and it was noticeable to my teachers at school (they didnt know I was transitioning and went to my school psych to address concerns about my face "caving" in. That was when I wasn't eating right and I was losing weight.) I want bigger cheeks. My face is still very skinny. And I still have acne problems even though my endo said estrogen and spiro would help with it.
8. Do you think changes will be better or more apparent and drastic when I get up to the more therapeutic dosages like most girls take?
9. How can I get my endo to increase the dosage more than just double the dose I'm currently taking? It's still low and would still be low when she doubles it the next follow-up. I think that 6 month increments are very slow and that I should be able to take a normal therapeutic dose. I mean seriously, it's a really low dose. PM me if you want to know more about it.

PS I know the YMMV rule, but I'd think that if my body reacted so quickly and reacted really well to it initially, that I'd have really drastic results at the end like most older MtFs did. I've seen really manly, older MTFs transition to really passable girls, and my genetics, and age is more of an advantage then them, especially with a less manly face.

Anyway, thank you for reading this long, long, very boring post but I've got so many concerns and I thought the more information I provided, the better the feedback and the better you could gauge me with your answers. 

I know this isn't advice from a medical professional, I just want to hear other's views based on their experiences.

Much Love,
-A
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 01:47:55 pm by V M »

Emily1996

Re: MtF Young Transition - Problems and Questions
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2014, 01:54:45 pm »
Hello! I don't know if I'm kinda in your situations because too I guess), but I kinda had a late puberty I guess, and I"m and 8 1/2 shoes too and 5'5'' tall and somewhat feminine I guess. I'm at a low dose of HRT too, but not with doctor because of my family (yas I know it's bad). I guess a doctor doesn't want you to get sick or something by upping your dosage too early because your body might not be used to it. Changes are really slow...

1) I think so, since most of those girls on youtube have a higher dosage and might take more meds like finasteride, or androcure, which I heard that androcure is stronger than spiro or it was cyproterone or something... And they might take Progesterone as well, or had srs or orchi which feminizes you as well...
2) It's kinda a personal thing it doesnt work the same to every girls. Some girls get Cs or Ds others are stuck with As (which is not really bad). They will probably grow more with a higher dose though.
3) Mine didn't have a lot of pain right now but again I'm just a month in (I mean I have changes on nipples and areola but no pain or really slinght), but I have a very high tolerance for pain so maybe it's that too, and that's why I don't feel it a lot. Maybe you are in the same situation.
4) I guess so :3 but it all depends as I told you. BTW there are some older women with Ds and Gs too (I don't even know if that size exist LOL), so don't really age plays a role in this, but it's not a lot. Of course it's better to transition earlier, but only for the changes on HRT, for the social changes,and you and me are able to live your life as a woman earlier than usual it was for other girls.
7) Me too, I have the same problems besides the skinny part, I'm 145 and 5'5'' I'm still in the normal range but not really super skinny like you xD well maybe try to get on some weight and hope it goes on the right places...
6) I forgot this before, I'm not really moody or maybe I've always been moody LOL. Not really, but lately I'm more emotional but maybe it's because of the whole situations I'm in which makes my transition harder and stuff... I'm usually not emotional just for no reason... This might change with progesterone I heard it makes you really moody, etc...
8) well yes of course! Good luck :)
9) I really don't know just let him/her know. Besides that your doctor knows about how much your body can take, etc... more than you do! Don't do anything stupid like increasing your dosage without letting him know. (I know it's weird coming from someone who doesn't see a doctor, but I wish I did, because it's not an easy situation).

AGAIN GOOD LUCK =) sorry for any typos.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 01:57:57 pm by V M »

Online V M

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Offline TransGirlBarbie

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Re: MtF Young Transition - Problems and Questions
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2014, 03:53:15 pm »
Hello! I don't know if I'm kinda in your situations because too I guess), but I kinda had a late puberty I guess, and I"m and 8 1/2 shoes too and 5'5'' tall and somewhat feminine I guess. I'm at a low dose of HRT too, but not with doctor because of my family (yas I know it's bad). I guess a doctor doesn't want you to get sick or something by upping your dosage too early because your body might not be used to it. Changes are really slow...

1) I think so, since most of those girls on youtube have a higher dosage and might take more meds like finasteride, or androcure, which I heard that androcure is stronger than spiro or it was cyproterone or something... And they might take Progesterone as well, or had srs or orchi which feminizes you as well...
2) It's kinda a personal thing it doesnt work the same to every girls. Some girls get Cs or Ds others are stuck with As (which is not really bad). They will probably grow more with a higher dose though.
3) Mine didn't have a lot of pain right now but again I'm just a month in (I mean I have changes on nipples and areola but no pain or really slinght), but I have a very high tolerance for pain so maybe it's that too, and that's why I don't feel it a lot. Maybe you are in the same situation.
4) I guess so :3 but it all depends as I told you. BTW there are some older women with Ds and Gs too (I don't even know if that size exist LOL), so don't really age plays a role in this, but it's not a lot. Of course it's better to transition earlier, but only for the changes on HRT, for the social changes,and you and me are able to live your life as a woman earlier than usual it was for other girls.
7) Me too, I have the same problems besides the skinny part, I'm 145 and 5'5'' I'm still in the normal range but not really super skinny like you xD well maybe try to get on some weight and hope it goes on the right places...
6) I forgot this before, I'm not really moody or maybe I've always been moody LOL. Not really, but lately I'm more emotional but maybe it's because of the whole situations I'm in which makes my transition harder and stuff... I'm usually not emotional just for no reason... This might change with progesterone I heard it makes you really moody, etc...
8) well yes of course! Good luck :)
9) I really don't know just let him/her know. Besides that your doctor knows about how much your body can take, etc... more than you do! Don't do anything stupid like increasing your dosage without letting him know. (I know it's weird coming from someone who doesn't see a doctor, but I wish I did, because it's not an easy situation).

AGAIN GOOD LUCK =) sorry for any typos.

I told her that I was concerned about it she said for me to come in to go up like the dose she was recommending I start next. I asked her if I could have a higher dose like what most girls start on, which would be double the amount she wants to put me on asap, and she said no because it's too high and I will get a blood clot so I guess I have to wait. :/

For the record I now see myself in the mirror a little different looking, depending on the lighting and hairstyle, and my friends say I look different, I do see a difference in facial structure, it is feminine, but the cheeks haven't filled out all the way yet and I havent gotten my bushy brows waxed in forever so thats probably why. I'm also very gender dysphoric at times and we are all our own worst critic. But yes, I do think I'm passable. I have the model look, which is apparently flattering and attractive. (A well-defined [but feminine] jawline and high cheek bones, a skinny-face, and feminine eye shape.) Its just the no makeup, bushy brows, and lack of facial fat that throws me off, but no one can really tell in public. Even if I'm dressed as a boy (well, a baggy sweatshirt, top-siders, and skinny jeans) or have my hair up with no makeup on (hardly wear it unless I'm fully going out as a girl due to family issues), many people can't tell, and if my mom addresses me as my male name or with male pronouns, they look awfully confused and stare. So I am passable for the most part, I'm blessed, but I don't see this passable, pretty girl that people see. It's mostly having to do with feeling low about the way I look as a whole, more of like manly features and not looking like Courtney Stodden (who, by the way is PERFECTION, despite the fact that shes a horrible person). Straight men that dont even know and see my pictures or in person think I'm 9 or a 10. I don't see that so I think it's mostly a self esteem issue, and I know that I have facial flaws like my nose isn't sloped its more straight and fat. But I am right about my body not developing. We all want to look like someone else, that's the morale of the story.

So I have high expectations from all the girls I've seen transition, which probably isn't good, but if my body reacts so well like it is now, then I probably will have a drastic transition later on. :) We'll see.

Offline KayXo

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Re: MtF Young Transition - Problems and Questions
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2014, 08:22:56 pm »
I told her that I was concerned about it she said for me to come in to go up like the dose she was recommending I start next. I asked her if I could have a higher dose like what most girls start on, which would be double the amount she wants to put me on asap, and she said no because it's too high and I will get a blood clot so I guess I have to wait. :/

Ask her if she can tell you what information she is basing herself on to state that increasing dose will produce blood clots. If she is referring to studies where non bio-identical forms of estrogen were used and you are taking bio-identical estradiol, then you need to tell her that the risks aren't the same, that non bio-identical forms increase clotting to a greater degree because of their longer half-lives and molecular structure; this has been shown again and again in several studies. It would be in your interest that she reads carefully those studies. You can also tell her that taken non-orally, bio-identical estradiol appears, according to SEVERAL studies, even in quite high dosages NOT to increase the risk of clotting (i.e. prostate cancer patients given transdermal or injectable estradiol).

I fear your doctor may not be as well-informed as she should be and it may be harming your feminization process. Do follow her recommendations though as long as you are under her care, don't EVER supplement on your own but it would be wise, I think (I'm not a doctor though) to go see other doctors specialized in the matter and see what they say for your own good.

Best of luck. :)
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005

Offline TransGirlBarbie

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Re: MtF Young Transition - Problems and Questions
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 10:24:39 pm »
Ask her if she can tell you what information she is basing herself on to state that increasing dose will produce blood clots. If she is referring to studies where non bio-identical forms of estrogen were used and you are taking bio-identical estradiol, then you need to tell her that the risks aren't the same, that non bio-identical forms increase clotting to a greater degree because of their longer half-lives and molecular structure; this has been shown again and again in several studies. It would be in your interest that she reads carefully those studies. You can also tell her that taken non-orally, bio-identical estradiol appears, according to SEVERAL studies, even in quite high dosages NOT to increase the risk of clotting (i.e. prostate cancer patients given transdermal or injectable estradiol).

I fear your doctor may not be as well-informed as she should be and it may be harming your feminization process. Do follow her recommendations though as long as you are under her care, don't EVER supplement on your own but it would be wise, I think (I'm not a doctor though) to go see other doctors specialized in the matter and see what they say for your own good.

Best of luck. :)

Thank you for this! :)
I'm on Estrace. I asked her from the start if I could do the injections and she said that's the old school method. I wanted to do the injections because many people recommended it and their results were really, really good.

Offline KayXo

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Re: MtF Young Transition - Problems and Questions
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2014, 07:07:08 am »
I'm on Estrace. I asked her from the start if I could do the injections and she said that's the old school method.

Plenty of girls are still injecting, just read this board. Certainly not old school. I went from Estrace to injections and it made a HUGE difference physically and in how I felt. I'm never going back to oral.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005

Offline TransGirlBarbie

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Re: MtF Young Transition - Problems and Questions
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2014, 11:02:24 pm »
Plenty of girls are still injecting, just read this board. Certainly not old school. I went from Estrace to injections and it made a HUGE difference physically and in how I felt. I'm never going back to oral.

I thought that was the case! I want injections so bad but I don't know how I'm going to get them if she won't give the Rx to me! haaha

Offline KayXo

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Re: MtF Young Transition - Problems and Questions
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2014, 11:52:23 am »
Have her explain the reasons why she refuses to prescribe them, find out if her reasons are justified by science and if not, share your concerns with her.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005

Offline Delsorou

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Re: MtF Young Transition - Problems and Questions
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2014, 01:02:04 am »
The danger of blood clots that she is so concerned with is significantly exacerbated by oral administration, as the hormones being digested into your body alter the way your liver functions, causing most of the risk.  Because injections (or transdermal patches, or gels, or even sublingual, ANYTHING but oral) place the hormone directly into your body to be absorbed into the blood, they do not produce this alteration of liver function.

In this sense, injections can be considered a far safer way to obtain reasonably efficacious levels of exogenous hormones for our purposes.  As long as you inject using proper methods so you don't get an infection or abscess from a contaminated needle.  I've been doing it for 1.5 years for these exact reasons, and have not had a problem yet.

I would definitely not consider injections to be "old school" in the slightest.

I would add my voice to those recommending that you obtain a second opinion from another doctor.