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Left-Hand Path Religions

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Ev:

--- Quote from: Jess42 on November 07, 2014, 12:59:09 pm ---I definately agree. But I also believe the same about praying too. It should be personal. It really isn't any different though. For example, if somone prays for a tornado not to hit their house then they are trying to consciously re direct it to possibly hit someone else's house. I guess what I am trying to say is the old saying of "be careful of what you wish for". If you wish to forego your suffering then you may indeed cause someone else to suffer that wasn't meant to. Does that make any sense? It did when I wrote it. ;)

--- End quote ---

Makes perfect sense.  I will, since we are here, discuss this as it is one of the many "grey areas" that Satanism is full of.

In Satanism, survival of self is the highest law.  This is it for me.  When I die, I am dead...and I love life with a passion.  I will do whatever I can to defend it and to carry guilt over "whatever it takes" will only turn to self-hate and loathing, diminishing the quality of life I have as I go the rest of my days moping about that someone else died because/instead of me.  I cannot do this to myself, so I cannot have any regrets if a "working" leads to someone else'sdemise. 

So, I will use your scenario of the tornado:

If I use magic to save myself from a tornado, I have saved my own life.  I never asked that it hit someone else's house, I merely asked that it MISS mine.  The more specific one gets in magic, the less likely it is to work.  So, I have to expend the bare minimal energy in diverting the tornado.  To do so, I just "wish" that the tornado not harm me...and it doesn't.  Mission accomplished.  If I demand too much of magic it means I am putting too much "brain" and not enough "heart" into it, which reduces its effectiveness.  Magic must be emotionally charged, not intellectually driven. 

If, however, my neighbor doesn't work his/her magic...or, using less energy, doesn't take refuge in their reinforced cellar/basement...and they die, well, I can't feel sorry for them.  If they were a friend, I could mourn over my loss of a friend, but I cannot feel sorry for saving my own life.  Regret and guilt is what would get me in this case, NOT a backfired working.

Survival is THE law.  It sounds cold to some, but people who feel as if they can't save their own skin because it may mean "hurting" someone else really has no place in Satanism.  Sometimes, the things we do have consequences we can never forsee...so to worry about that means one is only going to live a life of fear and pain, afraid to ever ask for anything fortunate to happen to them.  I refuse to rob myself of joy this way.

Jess42:

--- Quote from: Ev on November 07, 2014, 01:55:44 pm ---Makes perfect sense.  I will, since we are here, discuss this as it is one of the many "grey areas" that Satanism is full of.

In Satanism, survival of self is the highest law.  This is it for me.  When I die, I am dead...and I love life with a passion.  I will do whatever I can to defend it and to carry guilt over "whatever it takes" will only turn to self-hate and loathing, diminishing the quality of life I have as I go the rest of my days moping about that someone else died because/instead of me.  I cannot do this to myself, so I cannot have any regrets if a "working" leads to someone else'sdemise. 

So, I will use your scenario of the tornado:

If I use magic to save myself from a tornado, I have saved my own life.  I never asked that it hit someone else's house, I merely asked that it MISS mine.  The more specific one gets in magic, the less likely it is to work.  So, I have to expend the bare minimal energy in diverting the tornado.  To do so, I just "wish" that the tornado not harm me...and it doesn't.  Mission accomplished.  If I demand too much of magic it means I am putting too much "brain" and not enough "heart" into it, which reduces its effectiveness.  Magic must be emotionally charged, not intellectually driven. 

If, however, my neighbor doesn't work his/her magic...or, using less energy, doesn't take refuge in their reinforced cellar/basement...and they die, well, I can't feel sorry for them.  If they were a friend, I could mourn over my loss of a friend, but I cannot feel sorry for saving my own life.  Regret and guilt is what would get me in this case, NOT a backfired working.

Survival is THE law.  It sounds cold to some, but people who feel as if they can't save their own skin because it may mean "hurting" someone else really has no place in Satanism.  Sometimes, the things we do have consequences we can never forsee...so to worry about that means one is only going to live a life of fear and pain, afraid to ever ask for anything fortunate to happen to them.  I refuse to rob myself of joy this way.

--- End quote ---

Unfortunately Ev, there are so many grey areas in any belief systems. I won't say I am devine, any and everything but. But I will not save myself and put other's in harms way. If there is nothing then it will be sweet nothingess. If there is something then I really don't worry too much about it. But there is one thing LeVey mentioned. When the adults have a party and send the child to bed, the child usually will remain awake and watch in secrecy from the staircase. Hidden from all the oblivious adults. This stands out. To me it means that Anton Szandor LeVey believed in more than nothingness after death. How can you wathc a party after the adults put you to bed? How can you watch life go on after Death? But I don't mind watching the "party" from the top of the staircase hidden. ;) Just like the Holy Bible, The Satanic Bible hints at something. Oh yeah. My version was really blasphemous in the beginning. The Rejection of Christ and all. I bought this in the mid to late eighties. Now I really don't know how it is. But LeVey was a genius much like Swaggert and Baker. ::) But LeVey was way more true or to me he was. He held in regard the seven deadly sins, the Holy Bible don't even mention these animalistic instincts. And that is what they are. Instictual to any animal in the field and since humans are animals too. It is deep in our instinctual urges.

But yeah the strong shall survive. But I would hate it if I caused anyone else harm with what I tried to prevent. If I do die hon. No big deal. So? But I will survive if it comes down to it. I want to live but could I actually live if my the sake of my life caused someone theirs? If I didn't know any better, yeah, I could but the one big sin of LeVeyan Satanism is stupidity and ignorance. I accept whatever life holds for me. Whether there is sweet nothingness and I, the real Me, is snuffed out like a candle blown out. I accept it. Welcome it even. Non existance equals no pain. If my life is snuffed out and I have to watch the world from the "top of the stairs" then I will be happy for those that deserve it and resentful for those that don't. Maybe even hateful for those that are truly the band of society. But hon, if it comes down to kill or be killed then the fates will decide that.

No hon. It is not cold. Survival is a basic ultimate instinct. But what if you don't care to survive? What if a person were to sacrifice themselves for someone else? Even another member of the Curch of Satan or someone you loved and cherished?

No offense. I still have friends that are true Stanists. I have friends that think they are Satanists. I have friends that are Crhistian and I have friends that are Catholic. I differntiate Catholicism from Christianity because of the cermonious stuff. All give the same answer. they would but would they really if the <not allowed> hit the fan? The only way to know is when the <not allowed> gets splatterered

What would I do? Honestly? I don't know. I would like to think that I would give the ultimate sacrifice and more than once was prepared to. Even took the idiots hand with the gun and put it right between my eyes. So these little mean buttholes that are so callous can't kill you when you want them too? Did I really want to die? Not really. Would I have? Oh yeah. I am prepared. I don't care. Surviving with the pain isn't near as promising as non existance without. Even watching from the strairs, as long as I could have a little pink nightgown on, I would be happy. I don't care.

Have you really ever known a true Satanist? Other than card holding members? I will not pay tigthes to belong to any church. My money is mine and mine alone I will never pay for a belief. If I want to share then I will. I don't have a card. But what is in the heart is what the truth really is. I would never ask for money but I'm not Anton Szandor LeVey. I am not the Princess of Darkness or The Queen of Light but like everyone, somewhere in between.

Truthfully Ev. We may not 100% agree. It doesn't matter because like you said it is as personal as what is in the bedroom. But the dark I know really well. Thus why my warning. Anton was close. Alliester Crowly was too. But true dark? I won't say anymore but you can care and show compassion and empathy even when your Soul is black. If there is even such a thing as a Soul.

Wow. I must really be insane or evil. >:-) But I can still care about others though.

Do you mind if I PM you?

Ev:
By all means, PM if you have anything to say you don't feel comfortable saying out in the open.

Ev:
But on the issue of the red card, I address openly:

It is to show my support to an organization with people in it I have come to admire, nothing more.  It is not meant to validate my beliefs.

If you like Spider-Man comics, you buy them to keep them going.  You don't need to buy a comic to like Spider-Man as a character, though...but "likes" don't pay the bills.  That is about as well as I can explain it.

Ev:
And, if for whatever reason you cannot PM me here and you have a FB account, you can join me over there.

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