Author Topic: Being Christian and Transsexual  (Read 13828 times)

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Offline suzifrommd

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2016, 08:29:52 am »
The Christian bible says nothing about trans* people.

Actually, it does. In Matthew 19:12, Jesus demands that Eunuchs (male-bodied people who have given up their masculinity) be accepted. In Isaiah 56:4-5, we are promised "an everlasting name better than sons and daughters."
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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2016, 11:53:59 am »
Nothing bad about* kinda what I meant lol

Offline Marlee

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2016, 12:02:48 pm »
The Christian bible says nothing about trans* people. There's one place that says cross dressing is a sin, but cross dressing and being trans* is so very much different

I've never bought into that interpretation, being that when it was written, "everybody" was wearing robes

Offline Deborah

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2016, 03:35:45 am »
I've never bought into that interpretation, being that when it was written, "everybody" was wearing robes
The only other credible interpretation of that verse that I  have come across is indirectly very hostile to the idea of trans.  It essentially says that men and women will not assume the role of the other sex.


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Offline jossam

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2016, 06:44:12 pm »
I say the real way to read and study the bible is to do it in the original languages: Hebrew for the old testament and Greek for the new testament.
I try to learn the Hebrew words but I don't have much time in my life right now to focus on Hebrew bible study, but I can tell you that the Hebrew bible is one thing and the English translations are different and might alter the meaning of passages or words. Hearing someone read the creation in ancient bible Hebrew and the rhymes and sounds was a great experience for me....but if the same passages are read in English they don't have the same effect or even the same meaning.

Hebrew is a very unique language. It works in different ways. Not surprised if translations alter meanings. Besides, I feel like literal interpretation of the bible is wrong and should never be done by a serious believer. It's what fundie Christians do but they have their own messed up views on the bible (especially on the ot) that contradicts every other interpretation, Jewish or Christian and makes no sensecon a theological level. I say some Christians tend to be too literal and that's not the way to do theology and the bible is mysterious, too complex to just be interpreted literally. And when they use it against groups of people then it's really disgusting and offensive.

The bible also shows the culture of ancient Israelites. I doubt it was a lgbt friendly culture. 3000 years ago. No modern science or medicine. Many accuse the bible of things, like being homophobic, but the bible isn't things. It's a book that describes things and not all of them are nice because the world wasn't nice back then and never was. People who wrote it reported things and what do we expect from ancient populations? Progressive ideas? Also the bible, like other books, can be interpreted in various ways. It's the people who interpret it that use it as an anti-lgbt weapon because they hide behind religion but their hatred is within their minds and comes from something else. Religion is just a mask they wear. But I read the same bible as them and I don't use it against people, I use it for my own personal spiritual growth and I don't think we should live like the ancient Israelites because humanity evolved and as some types of Judaism teach, the Torah is alive and humans understanding of it can change over the centuries and society changes and there's rabbis discussing ideas, and Judaism encourages discussing and even questioning things. It's not a static religion. We can't be like we were 3000 years ago. It's 2016. I can't understand people who want to take us back to that ancient era, and it's mostly fundie Christians in America and it scares me because we all know how hostile they are against lgbt people.

Fundie Christians like mentioning certain quotes from the Torah but why is it that they cherry pick and only choose to follow "anti gay" verses and then they ignore all the other verses? Using books amd laws specifically for Jews, cherry picking, twisting things, spreading lies, all of this to justify their hatred.

In the NT, an eununch gets blessed. It's Paul (or St. Paul for Catholics) the one who wrote stuff about women not being allowed to teach or speak in churches and a list of people going to hell. Not Jesus. It was Paul. I like how homophobes focus on Paul's homophobia and ignore the words of Jesus their Lord.

I know there are so many nice Christian brothers and sisters out there. I was one myself. I don't think religion should be used to control others. It should be a positive personal experience, and not a way to control other people.

Offline RobynD

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2016, 07:08:29 pm »
I'm a Christian. i don't see the bible as either literal or inerrant. I was taught and I believe that it is a collection of books/writings that is useful in showing man's relationship to the creator and also to show the story of how man is redeemed by Christ.

I don't cherry pick because i believe it is very much about the culture of the time and the context to whom it was written ( such as the Kingdom of Israel and Early Christian Churches). I don't pick and choose because i get  the general spirit of it and the metaphor that exists in it. There is much i don't know and are not likely to ever know about it this side of hereafter. I don't understand hell for instance and that whole concept or whether it is a literal thing, or a historic thing etc. Are we saved from that? or is everyone saved in some form, or is that not at all what saving means. I just don't know and it is hard to form hard opinions on it.

With regard to trans people, can anyone even imagine a god that would be so imperfect and unloving as to disregard us? I can't. The god of many people that claim Christianity as their own sounds very human and very much like themselves to me. That was the whole point about the story of the Garden, man wanted to be God and form him/her in his image.





Offline gennee

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2016, 11:10:20 pm »
I am also a Christian. The bible is a guideline for us, not to be used as a weapon. Eunuchs have always been part of civilization. God accepts us as we are because he/she created us. We are to love both our friends and our enemies. Jesus did.

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Offline jossam

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2016, 08:34:11 pm »
I'm a Christian. i don't see the bible as either literal or inerrant. I was taught and I believe that it is a collection of books/writings that is useful in showing man's relationship to the creator and also to show the story of how man is redeemed by Christ.

I don't cherry pick because i believe it is very much about the culture of the time and the context to whom it was written ( such as the Kingdom of Israel and Early Christian Churches). I don't pick and choose because i get  the general spirit of it and the metaphor that exists in it. There is much i don't know and are not likely to ever know about it this side of hereafter. I don't understand hell for instance and that whole concept or whether it is a literal thing, or a historic thing etc. Are we saved from that? or is everyone saved in some form, or is that not at all what saving means. I just don't know and it is hard to form hard opinions on it.

With regard to trans people, can anyone even imagine a god that would be so imperfect and unloving as to disregard us? I can't. The god of many people that claim Christianity as their own sounds very human and very much like themselves to me. That was the whole point about the story of the Garden, man wanted to be God and form him/her in his image.

Jewish here, raised Christian. Similar views, but I don't believe in hell :)  also, very interesting interpretation of the story of the Garden, it added a new perspective :)

Offline Deborah

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2016, 08:39:57 pm »
With regard to trans people, can anyone even imagine a god that would be so imperfect and unloving as to disregard us? I can't.
i can't imagine it either.  So that leaves two alternatives.  The first is as you stated.  The second is to conclude that none of it, God, is real at all. 

I chose the second alternative after a very long period of soul searching and dread of going to hell. 

If I made a mistake and chose wrong at least I'll be in good company.  But there's no going back.



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Offline Karlie Ann

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2016, 11:22:37 pm »
This is one of the biggest things I have struggled with, and the hardest part of my transition.  I was a very conservative Christian who was trans (trigger warning) and I felt that it was a sin and I had to resist it.  Sinners in the hands of an angry God, and all that.

But 9 months ago my marriage broke up (nothing to do with my transsexuality) and I found myself adrift.  I'm still working it out.  I'm trying to see the loving side of God, the side that loves me no matter what.  I'm trying to explore whether the Bible is inerrant / infallible, etc.  I believe very firmly in the Apostle's Creed - beyond that, things are nowadays a bit on the table for discussion.

The big problem is, that all of my friends are conservative Christians too, and they are absolutely going to freak when they find out I am transitioning, most especially my estranged and eventually-to-be-ex-wife.  But that's a worry for the future.

For now, as Paul said, I am working out my salvation with fear and trembling, yet depending on the grace and peace of Jesus Christ.
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Offline stephaniec

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2016, 02:29:33 am »
I base my faith on what Jesus said.

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2016, 10:30:52 am »
People who were sick in "The Bible" were thrown out of the city and discarded. It may have seemed like a good idea at the time. And that's the thing. This is a text of questionable origin and concerns the daily lives of a pre-industrial country. Much of "the law" is political, power plays, health, and sacrifice. Most of that has no bearing on our lives today. We should remember that the holy texts were used to govern as well as prop up a belief system. If we were to implement "the law" as laid out in "The Bible," we'd have a fundamentalist theocracy not unlike the Taliban or ISIL.

So, believe what you will from the faith of "The Bible" but please don't torture yourself over old laws concerning governance.

Offline Deborah

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2016, 10:35:17 am »
This is a text of questionable origin and concerns the daily lives of a pre-industrial country.
For a fundamentalist God spoke these laws through the scripture so they apply to all people in all times in all societies.



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Offline ChasingAlice

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2016, 02:22:24 pm »
it is hard to quantify trans individuals. a trans female lesbian can and often does manifest as a straight man. now, a straight trans female would appear gay. people just do not know what to do.

i asked my former priest if i should continue living as a lesbian or be a 'gay' male. i then asked which is the lesser sin? his response was that it did not matter because i am an abomination to the lord.

he also refused communion. i want to note that the assembly said that i should take it anyway. this is after my ex-wife outed me publicly. i was shamed publicly in church on that day.  :'(

Del

Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2016, 05:03:42 pm »
ChasingAlice,
That's pretty low outing you and calling you an abomination. Rather heartless I would say.

The truth in scripture is that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Only Jesus was without sin.

One scripture used frequently is Deuteronomy 22:5. Many who use that do not even stop to think in a spiritual sense they do the same thing.

To start it does not say a woman who wears men's clothing. It says "that which pertaineth unto a man." There is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. He is the "man" or "Husband" to the church his bride or "woman."

Therefore when a church judges a person "she" has taken on the "breastplate of judgment" her Husband alone is allowed to wear since he is a High Priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. It goes way farther but this is just a simple example.

It says the man shall not wear a woman's garment. Isaiah said our righteousness is as filthy rags. When a church becomes self righteous they sin because they think that the Lord accepts their self righteous attitude. Or, in a sense they think he will wear their covering of filthy rags and honor their twisted belief and high and mighty attitude. Once again, this goes way farther but I'll keep that simple.

The bottom line is that many straight and cisgender Christians throw stones while doing what they accuse others of. Sort of like the old saying the pot calling the kettle black. None of us are without sin. We may not agree or condone something but it's not our place to judge or condemn.

The words that you are an abomination appear condemning. Had he of said he believes what you do is an abomination it would have been different. Sadly many will damn themselves with a judgmental attitude. With the same measure it will be measured back to them. The merciless shall be shown no mercy, etc....



Offline Deborah

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2016, 05:12:56 pm »
A few years ago when I was still going to Church I was teaching bible classes for adults.  I was at the time trying to reconcile myself with what the Church teaches.  After the class one day I was having a conversation with a man and I said something to the effect that there was no sin in having homosexual attraction if it was not acted on.  He replied that "all homosexuals should be killed."  I asked him if that included the ones who had never done anything and he replied, "yes."

He didn't know what I was but I'll never forget the vehemence in his desire to see people killed for nothing more than what they thought.


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Del

Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2016, 06:04:48 pm »
Deborah,
I'm sorry to see that. That's sick, judgmental and hateful.
Maybe he has never read that the heart of man is deceitfully wicked, who can know it, the spirit of man lusteth to envy and the carnal mind is enmity with God.
We all have felt things at different levels, for a lack of better words. Some of our thoughts and feelings cannot be helped and to say a person should be killed because they have them is terrible.
I would venture to say the most upright people have had some very bad thoughts. They just haven't shared them.
There is an old saying, "there but by the grace of God go I." The word of God even says we should consider ourselves lest we be tempted. I wonder how he would like to wake up and feel gay or transgender after saying that?
That man's lack of mercy may come back to haunt him.

Michelle_P

Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2016, 08:08:32 pm »
Ah, Deuteronomy 22:5... Del is looking at the King James translation or one of it's derivatives.  It may surprise some to learn that the original text is not in English, but an old dialect of Hebrew.  The correct translation makes a little more sense, when one considers what clothing looked like for nomadic tribes of that period.  Men wore what were effectively robes, fastened and arranged with cord.  Women also wore robes, fastened and arranged with cord.  Atop the robes, men in the warrior class wore 'armor', leather or heavy fabric pads.

The actual Hebrew translation makes more sense knowing this:
Quote
Never cause or force a warriors weapon to be used by a woman or weak person; neither dress warriors armor on a woman or weak person for to Yahweh, God of Host, disgusting is such that do so.

Yup.  Don't use non-warriors as decoys.  That is cheating.

I'm not disgusting.  I'm pretty.  ;D
(12 years of Jesuit education, Latin, and other such dreck rattling about in my skull...)

Offline Deborah

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2016, 08:38:13 pm »
Anyway, none of it matters anymore.  After 45 years of unanswered prayer I concluded that either God hates me or God doesn't care or God doesn't exist.  In all three cases that means that none of it matters.  I opened the door and nobody was on the other side.


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Offline Lady Sarah

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Re: Being Christian and Transsexual
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2016, 11:28:47 pm »
I cannot help but believe that, God made us who we are. Whatever the reason, we will likely never know, while on this Earth. I was raised Catholic, and became Christian in my late teens. This does not mean I attend services, as I find most congregations to be full of hypocrites, as well as those who judge others.

Such congregations may be enough to make many lose their faith, especially with ministers that do not discuss even a whole paragraph. Twisting the meanings to fit their whims scares me away as well.
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