Author Topic: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction  (Read 2576 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jossam

  • ****
  • Posts: 170
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
When people don't recognize what I really am despite living my life as a guy, with men's clothes and doing nothing remotely womanly (I'm still pre-transition cause I still live with my family), or when they misgender me, when they show me a women's short haircut (no, it's not the same as a men's short haircut and they know it, and they know and see I get men's haircuts only), when they point out masculine women, I'm like "they really have no idea". I'm not a masculine girl, I'm not anything they think I am. I'm a trans man. A man, just like every other man, but just trans, waiting the right moment in life to transition and change legal gender and name. A man, simply born with a female body, but a man nonetheless.

If society wasn't so inherently cissexist and transphobic, I could already transition, and I wouldn't face confused looks and misgendering. The physical part hurts a lot, but the social parts hurts as much.

I don't know what to do. I'm out to friends. My family, on the other hand, doesn't exactly know. I obviously fear reactions. If society wasn't like this, then I wouldn't have to fear anyone's reaction.

I always wonder why it isn't so obvious that I'm a trans man. There is no sign of me doing anything womanly, I don't even refer to myself as a woman, EVER, not even in front of family (I don't refer to myself as a man either in front of them, I just keep myself vague and neutral...this should already be a strong sign, but they don't get it).
I don't know what would offend me more....being called/considered a masculine girl or a lesbian? I don't know, but no jokes here, I get pretty violent when people imply things that are absolutely not true.
Also, I really hate the trans woman = extremely gay man and trans man = extremely gay woman narrative. I blame it on total lack of education on the subject. Everytime progressive people in a country try to educate people on these issues, the conservative ones freak out and stop everything. I see a lot of ignorance in LGB groups too, which means even gay and bi cis people are often very ignorant about trans issues. But I don't want to get political here, sorry.

It just makes me sick. This issue and other issues I have are slowly turning me into a drug addict (pills). The worst part is....I don't care, I'm like ok, I'd rather pop pills than deal with pain.

My therapist didn't even come back, I had opened up to her and she was really accepting. I don't even have psychological support right now.

My semi-addiction is not just related to trans issues though, it has a lot to do with mental illness and anxiety, too, but I can say trans issues play a role.

I don't know what to do at this point, since I'm not independent so I can't transition yet. And the thought of family opposing my transition someday and reacting badly scares me to death.

Emileeeee

Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2016, 03:50:18 pm »
Confidence. That's the key ingredient that you seem to be missing. There are always going to be people misgendering you. It happens to cis people too. It happened to me about an hour ago. You have to learn to not dwell on it. Society is always looking for a reason to complain, right now trans people seem to be their primary target unfortunately. Over time, the frequency of misgendering will diminish.

Unless you're one of the few lucky ones that didn't have their confidence stomped out of them in childhood, you have to learn confidence. It won't come naturally. And it takes time. Lots of time. I started by faking it. I would focus on standing up straight for a change when I walk into a crowded public location (I hate people and crowds, so this wasn't easy as a guy either). I don't make eye contact with anybody unless I'm addressing them directly. I act like nobody else in the location exists as I walk past them. People will still look, but they're less likely to give you a hard time if you don't look scared. Eventually that confidence will become normal.

I know going from MtF, I had to learn how to smile when I look at people. That's very unnatural for me. In your case, you probably need to make sure you're not smiling at people, especially other guys. That'll draw attention to you every bit as much as walking with your head pointed at the ground.


Faking confidence is one thing, but you do need someone to talk to in person. Even if you can't find a therapist with trans experience, finding a good one that's not transphobic can really help with that confidence too. They can help you learn to zone out other peoples opinions. They can help you experience what total acceptance feels like. I had the same issues with therapists. I would find several that had no trans experience, several more that said they did and had no idea what I was talking about, and a few more that I'd see for a few sessions then they'd leave the state.





Offline DawnOday

  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3,015
  • Reputation: +33/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Links Administrator
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2016, 04:37:51 pm »
Please don't get mad at me as I am making some off the wall claims. Think of me as Dawn Trump.
I went to the market yesterday and while standing in line a woman came up behind me. I saw her and thought to myself how hideous she looked. I wondered why doesn't she use a little lipstick, fix her hair, lose a few pounds. Then I realized. Hey I'm turning female. ;D
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:


If you have a a business or service that supports our community please submit for our Links Page.

First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17




Offline jossam

  • ****
  • Posts: 170
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2016, 07:45:58 am »
I don't really smile at random people. I don't smile much anyway. I'm autistic so I'm not great at social stuff. My facial expressions with strangers are pretty boring and awkward anyway. I don't find these things natural for me.

The misgendering, in my opinion, happens because I look like a very young guy. I have no facial hair so when people know I'm in my 20s they realize I'm physically female. I'm hating the lack of facial hair because it ruins everything. Plus, documents of course, with my birth name and all. As I said, I can't transition yet. I don't get misgendered often actually. It just happened lately in college, maybe because as I said, no facial hair. Males already have facial hair in their early 20s.

What pisses me off the most though is my family not realizing, after all these years, I'm actually a man. I've never dressed like a girl, except when I was a small child and my family dressed me. I have nothing feminine in me, and it's natural to me because I have never faked anything. I have never tried to dress feminine or anything like that...that thought has always made me disgusted, ever since I was a child. It's always made me cringe cause I've always known I wasn't a girl inside.
This is why I don't understand my parents. How are they so blind to the obvious? They have a son.
I don't act like a woman because I'm not one, simple as that (whatever acting like a woman means). If my friends tell me it's obvious I'm a man in the wrong body, why can't my family figure it out? Why can't they sit next to me and ask me how I feel, what my desires are?

In the USA, trans people and especially trans women are being targeted a lot recently. In my country, trans people are almost invisible, and most people still assume trans women are just sex workers.
They talk a lot about gays but zero words are spent on trans people. It doesn't help, because it seems like most people here don't even know trans people exist, especially trans men. So when people see me and then look at my ID I'm sure they just assume I'm a masculine woman. Cause my ID says female. It makes me sick and ashamed. If they don't look at my ID they think I'm a 16 year old guy, which is still bad cause I'm actually an adult man.
But with transition and documents change, misgendering will go away, unless someone knows my story and decides to be an asshole anyway.

I know I'll always hear transphobia and cissexism. I truly think I need to be stronger because this world is not going to stop being transphobic any soon. I'm sure about it.

I guess I just need to be comforted. I wish my family knew and was ok with it. But they wouldn't be. I just feel horribly lonely, stuck with mental illneess, a developmental disorder and being a pre-everything trans guy.

My therapist is not a gender therapist, but she sounds very trans friendly (she asked me if I wanted her to use male pronouns to feel comfortable). But I don't know where she is now, as she worked in a public mental health center.

I just feel miserable and I feel like I'm ok only when I escape reality through pills or weed or whatever.

Offline Kylo

  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,028
  • Reputation: +61/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2016, 11:39:38 am »
The problems is millions of years of evolution. People are hard-wired that if someone is presented to them as female, then that is what they are forever on, they will never make the connection you are trans from their own observations alone, you will have to tell them if you want them to know the reality of your situation.

Humans have survived because males and females took on different roles and their bodies changed over millennia to accommodate those roles - the extent to which people are so hard-headed about what gender means and how a woman or a man should be treated shows how deep it is. It's not just some social construct they've learned, but something deeper because it's present in all cultures even in the most "advanced". So you really can't expect people to understand or to know without your help.

If you remember the name of your former therapist you may be able to get in contact with her again. At this point any kind of company that is supportive or not condemning would be a good thing for you.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 09:01:15 pm by T.K.G.W. »
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

Offline LizK

  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5,705
  • Reputation: +24/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Beauty begins the moment you decide to be yourself
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2016, 05:21:44 pm »


It just makes me sick. This issue and other issues I have are slowly turning me into a drug addict (pills). The worst part is....I don't care, I'm like ok, I'd rather pop pills than deal with pain.



that is a tough road to take....always ends in tears...some Pain in life helps build character and coping skills...Pills simply tear down your life one dose at a time, until there in nothing left, except the awful need of addiction.

Hugs

Liz
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019

Offline jossam

  • ****
  • Posts: 170
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2016, 08:19:34 am »
It's a social issue that can only be fixed through re-education.
This explains why so many people who are very aware of transness now think twice before assuming someone's gender automatically. Like me.
Same with roles. It's all social. As someone who studies sociology I can safely confirm gender roles are deep rooted in societies because they have been institutionalized throughout centuries.
I encourage you to read The Social Construction of Reality by Berger and Luckmann. They explain exactly how these rules are perpetuated and institutionalized.
What does it mean? It means that in a few hundreds of years we could eradicate a certain mindset forever, as new institutionalized rules take the place of the old ones.

If you take person X and person Z, and they're from different cultures, you'll find how X and Z might have a  completely different view of things. There is no universal concept of man and woman.

Do people assume roles based on biology? Yes, they do, but it's still a social process. We weren't born with a manual of instructions telling us how to act socially, but the media, family, groups of peers etc tell us and show us all the time.

Does biology influence behavior? It does have a role, of course. Do we trans people act and feel like the identified gender and not the assigned gender because we have a different biological make up compared to cis people? I'm sure we do, I'm sure we're different biologically although it's still not very clear how exactly. Let's let science discover more. But let's not forget the role of society when we analyze our behavior. Society tells us skirts and heels are for women, not biology. Are we influenced by social norms? Yes, from birth to death, every single day.

.....Can we change perspectives and stop assuming things?

Of course we can. It's hard but with enough power of will we can. Do I think cooking is for women only? Not anymore, but I kinda used to. Why not anymore? Because I became a well educated person.

Can we stop assuming female body = woman, male body = man? Yes, we can. Do most people desire to work on this and stop assuming everyone is cisgender? No, they don't. They either don't care enough or they hate trans people so they'd refuse to anyway.
It's hard to implant this into people's brain that male and female (and well, intersex people) refers to the body (and not just genitalia or chromosomes, but a set of different things like hormone levels, which are the most visible anyway, and, except for chromosomes, everything else can change), while being a man or a woman is a matter of self identification and social rules and while it's aligned with the body most of the time, sometimes it's completely different.

It's a product of millions of years of evolution IN A SOCIAL world. It's a product of millions of years of INSTITUTIONS.

I encourage you to read that book. It explains stuff in a much better and complete way than I do.

The ONLY thing I'm doing wrong is to assume everyone sees the obvious (that I'm actually a trans man) and that they know what transsexual means. This is a very bad mistake because I'm always going to be disappointed.

The reason why I don't tell everyone is obvious. I'm aware most people don't know unless I tell them, but it's a dangerous area....

Offline jossam

  • ****
  • Posts: 170
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2016, 08:29:30 am »
that is a tough road to take....always ends in tears...some Pain in life helps build character and coping skills...Pills simply tear down your life one dose at a time, until there in nothing left, except the awful need of addiction.

Hugs

Liz

You're very right about this. Pain builds strength. It's just that sometimes I'm really tired of suffering and I want some peace. It's something I can't seem to find, and I blame it on my condition.

Pills erase your soul, but sometimes when we suffer a lot it's all we want....being "out of reality". I just can't escape problems forever though, someday I'll have to face them all. Yes, pills and drugs only make you care about them. I'm not at this tragic point and I hope I will never be.
It's a constant battle though when you're on benzodiazepines and also have an addictive personality. It's like playing Russian roulette.

Hugs back

Offline Janes Groove

  • Jane's Groove
  • *
  • Posts: 1,376
  • Reputation: +28/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2016, 09:51:53 am »


I always wonder why it isn't so obvious that I'm a trans man.

I think most people (gross over-generalization alert) see what they want to see. Since I'm in the community and have met and socialized with trans men since I came out I am way more sensitive to it.  Yesterday at Best Buy I saw a person  who was getting into their truck with their adolescent son accompanying them.  I could tell they were assigned female at birth by their hips and smooth face but everything else about them, the way they walked, dressed, just the general energy they put out made me think trans man.  Someone else might have seen a woman who appeared very masculine.

I was tempted to use male pronouns but since I wasn't sure about them I use 3rd person pronouns for my narrative.

Offline Kylo

  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,028
  • Reputation: +61/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2016, 11:41:55 am »
Gender recognition is beyond words and social constructs - you can argue the semantics of the identifying words all you want, but people don't experience - for example - sexual attraction to a gender because of social constructs or descriptive terms. That stuff is down in the biological hardware section of the human animal - culture is only the software that runs on it. I think you're going to have a very difficult time trying to implant these ideas in what is essentially still very much an instinctual species.

You won't be able to socialize that fully out of someone - things like recognition of what gender a person is on the outside, or the inside, or what they're supposed to feel sexually attracted to because of gender and appearance. The whole reason we recognize gender at all and try to do so immediately is tied to the biological imperative. Some societies have attempted to reverse the social emphasis on the genders by forcing men and women to call each other neutral names, make them dress in identically nondescript clothing, etc. but the hardware runs all the same underneath it.

Many trans people have the opportunity to personally "socialize" their straight spouses out of what you call social indoctrination about men and women, through many years of interaction and information exchange, and many of them find it cannot be done. What is male and what is female has a very visceral meaning for the majority of people, and they can be told or convinced any number of things from someone they trust and love, but you'll still not be able to mold their initial perceptions or instinctive responses to other human beings like some kind of social putty. If it were so I'd still have a relationship instead of a an extremely cerebral friendship instead. And many other trans people can attest to the same thing. Put any word you want to a man or a woman, say you are whatever you want... but the underlying causes of such frictions are more often than not purely biological, not social.

Regardless if you're convinced it's mostly social or that all people are just born blank slates and can be programmed to think/feel anything (except us of course) - this is why I think it's a waste of time expecting other people to treat you as a neutral being or to assume what you want them to. The closest we can get to that with strangers is to "read" male, and be assumed to be male. People are still going to approach the topic with far less care and consideration than you and go by assumptions. And that's to be expected because they are not trans people and probably haven't ever thought deeply about them at all. I think most people are going to attempt to fit in rather than try to change this society of ours. Maybe it can be changed to the extent people will be more polite to the likes of us. Or maybe they will assume less often.

Ultimately though, most of them will still be judging by appearance and assuming by appearance and having biological responses to appearance because that's how we operate. If you want society to change to the extent this is no longer any kind of issue to them, or that trans people will be truly accepted for one gender even if they choose to look the exact opposite or something in between, and for people to respond to it instinctively in ways they currently don't, you're going to need human beings to evolve significantly beyond the human.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

Offline jossam

  • ****
  • Posts: 170
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2016, 08:10:07 pm »
I'm not saying we are blank at birth, you misunderstood my words. I am aware we're biologically programmed to do certain things and be in a certain way. I do believe and it's proven by science that identity (like feeling male, female or something in between) is biologically hard wired, just like other things like parts of our behavior (some people tend to develop mental illness more easily, be more aggressive, etc.). I don't think everything is social. I'm sorry you thought this, but it's not the way I think. You either got the message wrong or I explained it the wrong way. I'll try to clarify here for you and everyone else.

What is entirely social, in my opinion is gender roles and assuming men always have a male body and women always have a female body.
Example of gener role: the fact women in our societies are expected to wear skirts while men should stay away from them is social. Would I wear a skirt? Never and I never have, because I associate it with women, so it's natural for me to refuse it. However, if I lived in a society where men wore skirts, maybe I'd wear one too. It happens with Scottish kilts. I don't like them very much, but I'd wear them during some Scottish event because it's socially acceptable for a man to wear it in that context.

Are men programmed to be more aggressive? I've come to the conclusion that yes, they tend to be. This might explain why I have this visceral need to attack them because of competition (about women, jealousy, power, etc.) What about trans men? I can't speak for other trans men, but I tend to be aggressive and desire to engage in physical fights with other men, no matter if cis or trans. After all, science is also proving trans brains are different and resemble the ones of the identified gender, and not the ones of the physical sex. I think this is one of those things that are both biological and social though. Does society encourage male violence and aggressivity? It certainly does. And does society encourage women to be passive, weak and defenseless? It does. Take a look around, how many commercials about muscular women do you see? Very few, right?

So we have things that are entirely biological (like anatomy, hormone levels, etc.), other things that are both biological and social (like aggression), and last but not least, things that are entirely social (dressing code, for example, and the overwhelming majority of gender roles).

I've never said we're tabula rasa, blank states at birth. We're not. A lot of things happen before birth too, as we know, and as science is investigating we're starting to see the possible causes of transsexualism, all pre-natal. Saying we're blank states would mean denying biology, and I'd never do anything like that.

I don't think it's always a waste of time to educate people. It's never a waste of time to educate people on what gender roles are, and to encourage them to make a distinction between biological factors (physical sex and sexual identity that, in the case of trans people are not aligned) and social factors (gender roles like saying women should only stay in the kitchen).

We're constantly evolving, both biologically and socially. It's not like evolution is over.

From your words, I assume you had a relationship gone wrong? I'm sorry to hear about it. I am aware many people (most people, really) are attracted to purely physical parts like genitalia, chest, etc. and base their sexual orientation on those things. However, other people don't. I don't exactly know why, but they're more attracted to other parts of the person, not just the sexual ones. They're more attracted to the general appearance and the personality.
I know about completely straight women who are in love and have sex with trans men, even pre-everything trans men. They exist. And gay men who think the same way exist too (although I find the mainstream cis gay male culture to be very phallocentric).

You're right that some people will never change their perception on what is male and what is female. For example, I can't really get myself to think breasts can be a male characteristic and a penis can be a female characteristic, like some other trans people think. It's not meant to be offensive, but I don't really want female body parts exactly because they're female body parts, no matter how much other people say they're not inherently female. To me, they are and I want  to get rid of those. I want to transition because I want a male body, because I'm aware a male body is what I want, however, having a male body doesn't make you a man automatically and all the amazing ladies here on the forum can confirm this. Women can have male bodies and men can have female bodies.It's what makes us transsexual: having a body that does not match our sexual identity.
Do I have this visceral need to have a male body? Yes, I do.

TL; DR
You find how I agree with you on this, there are visceral things we cannot erase because they're biologically programmed, like perceiving bodies as male or female, and wanting to keep them (cis people) or change them (binary transsexual people). But gender roles like "women should cook and men should not" seem to be entirely social.
And there are people who like other people's overall appearance and don't focus on things like genitalia or breasts only. I might be wrong, but you made it sound like someone can never be attracted to a trans person or really see us as our real, identified gender.

Offline jossam

  • ****
  • Posts: 170
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2016, 08:12:29 pm »
I think most people (gross over-generalization alert) see what they want to see. Since I'm in the community and have met and socialized with trans men since I came out I am way more sensitive to it.  Yesterday at Best Buy I saw a person  who was getting into their truck with their adolescent son accompanying them.  I could tell they were assigned female at birth by their hips and smooth face but everything else about them, the way they walked, dressed, just the general energy they put out made me think trans man.  Someone else might have seen a woman who appeared very masculine.

I was tempted to use male pronouns but since I wasn't sure about them I use 3rd person pronouns for my narrative.

I feel in a similar way, I would have assumed trans men too, but tried to use neutral pronouns to avoid being wrong and possibly offending anyone since it's a delicate matter, as we all know.

I agree most people see what they want to see. Short and simple thought, but I find it very true.

Offline jossam

  • ****
  • Posts: 170
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2016, 08:35:42 pm »
And it's not a waste of time to educate people that trans people exist and that a woman can have a male body because she's trans and a man can have a female body cause he's trans. Male and female are biological (and it's not black and white anyway, we know the rare but very real intersex condition), but man and woman and assuming every man has a male body and every woman has a female body is social. It's because we've been taught this since birth. People teach children that people with penises are men or boys and that people with vaginas are women or girls. This is how you get transphobia and denial of trans people. It's socially taught.


Offline Janes Groove

  • Jane's Groove
  • *
  • Posts: 1,376
  • Reputation: +28/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2016, 10:38:29 pm »
I also find that being misgendered can be a positive thing.  It has a silver lining. The way we relate to others.   For example, when I am obviously presenting female and accepted by another person as female I think "Fun. Somebody I wouldn't mind getting to know, have a conversation with, be around.  Somebody who notices things and is sensitive.'  But when someone deliberately misgenders me I think. 'Stuffy, closed-minded, judgmental, opinionated.  Not fun at all.  Problems. Stay away.'

A good way to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Offline Kylo

  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,028
  • Reputation: +61/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2016, 07:48:58 am »
Does society encourage male violence and aggressivity? It certainly does. And does society encourage women to be passive, weak and defenseless? It does. Take a look around, how many commercials about muscular women do you see? Very few, right?

Yes but why do you think society does that? Is it because someone somewhere made the arbitrary decision that women are passive, or is because women on the whole are less interested in being aggressive and competitive? Why aren't women en masse demanding equal representation in the military? Why aren't they signing up for martial arts and things like boxing in the same numbers as men? Do you think if they decided to make commercials for female products with women bodybuilders or martial artists in them instead this is actually going to appeal to the majority of women? Society is reflecting what it is that people have an interest in. If women want to stop buying feminine clothes and products tomorrow so they can go pilot drones instead or go become bodybuilders it's quite possible they could. But they haven't - despite all the "girl power" marketing aimed at them these days. If that kind of advertising actually worked all the time on women, they'd be doing it.

People like to blame society. For example when it comes to there "not being enough women" in the STEM fields, according to some, they blame society because they think it doesn't encourage women to be in STEM enough. Yet - if you take a look at the stats of men and women entering STEM - the actual evidence - in the most egalitarian societies, such as Sweden, where opportunity and encouragement for women is actually the best, you see that when women have more choice they seem to go into typically feminine careers more so than they so in places like Iran, where they're not encouraged to. Why would this be? Perhaps because as much as society can tell them they can do anything, they still choose on the whole NOT to go into these professions. You still don't see as many female boxers and bodybuilders there as men also. And in a place like Sweden you can hardly blame it on backwards gender roles. Evidently it's not society telling them they "can't do it" there, when there are many state-sponsored drives to get women interested in these things, and affirmative action policies, and female only scholarships and so on and so on.

And this idea that society is holding women back by the power of opinion reduces women down to little more than brainless sheep who do as they are told. Perhaps those who champion women should give them more credit than that for their own choices. They are autonomous beings, and just maybe it is that most don't particularly want to engage in violent sports or weightlifting or in blurring the lines between masculine and feminine. But if there's going to be a culprit here I think once again it is biology, not the ideas of advertising companies, parents, education or the world at large that makes women less interested in beating the crap out of each other. Have you ever asked yourself why it is that men are so competitive anyway?

Well think about it - in the most crude social and biological terms a man is what he brings to the table. A woman is what her body can do. Or as someone once said "women are human beings, men are human doings". When a woman is shown in some pin-up poster displaying what makes her desirable to others, what do you see - her body. She doesn't have to be doing action poses to demonstrate her value. A man on the other hand - what is typically considered 'sexy' for men? A uniform, or an action pose, or a work pose - again showing what he does or can do to demonstrate his value to somebody other than himself. Or something demonstrating his wealth. He's not valuable in and of himself to society. And because men have to compete to get the resources or wealth in order to be seen as having any value, this is why both biology and society reinforces competition among men; muscularity being one aspect of it. Women don't have to do this to be valuable to society or to meet the biological imperative. It stands to reason then that women are neither encouraged to be competitive and muscular by society nor especially biologically interested in being so if there is no need. Being physically competitive is risky and resource costly as well. Why do it unless you are going to get some kind of benefit from it? Men do gain from it biologically because having gained resources through competition and appearing strong and able to protect can win them a mate. For women it's generally not required.

I'm sure you're thrilled about the biological aspects but it almost certainly does inform much of the average human animal's behavior, and that of society.

Quote
From your words, I assume you had a relationship gone wrong? I'm sorry to hear about it. I am aware many people (most people, really) are attracted to purely physical parts like genitalia, chest, etc. and base their sexual orientation on those things. However, other people don't. I don't exactly know why, but they're more attracted to other parts of the person, not just the sexual ones. They're more attracted to the general appearance and the personality.

No, my relationship didn't go wrong. It was going fine until I said that I am really male.

The gist is that is women on the whole tend to experience sexuality mentally and are more flexible when it comes to being faced with this situation. Even if they are straight. Men on the other hand, for them sexuality is more like a bodily function and far less flexible. This is why you'll find transmen have more difficulty convincing cis straight male partners to stick with it and give it a go. It's not that they might not want to, it's that biology is calling the shots here. Not cis male culture. If you've experienced a relationship with a cis straight male and gone through the details with him, you'll probably come down to the exact same answer. It's not that they have some need to pay respects to the penis or having one of their own, it's that male secondary sexual characteristics literally do not and cannot stimulate their brains sexually - unless they are gay/bi/pan. 

Quote
you made it sound like someone can never be attracted to a trans person or really see us as our real, identified gender.

Well that's certainly not what I said, nor could I ever back up such an idea.

But someone who visually registers completely female is very probably going to find it difficult to convince someone who is biologically attracted to males see them as a male and be attracted to them as a male. Unless they manage to do some accomplished mental gymnastics which most people are not good at. Or unless they are a person less turned on by appearances and physicality than ideas. If they take steps to appear more male - i.e. transition, that's going to help in that respect. I'm saying that if you think you can train people out of their visual gender bias you're probably going to fail, particularly if it's a man you're trying to convince, due to the biology of attraction. Even if the person accepts that a person who looks like a woman is a man inside, you aren't going to be able to undo what their brain wiring thinks about waist to hip ratios and more neotenous faces and so on. Even studies done on blind straight men have found they find female waist-to-hip ratios more attractive than male ones by touch alone. By all means, give it a try... but I think it's a waste of time with most people. To get the biological half of their brain in line with the rest you'd have to begin to register as more male than female visually.

Of course people can find a trans person attractive. It's not unheard of for them to have nice, fulfilling relationships with cis people. But the whole reason people have such a problem dealing with trans partners or trans people in general and why it's such a deep-seated issue isn't because it is social. There are countries that accept trans people, cross dressers or eunuchs as part of their societies, or even designated castes. It's because if you ask the average person to "call an apple an orange" they're going to find it difficult unless the apple does kind of look a bit like an orange. That's just how it appears to work with many people. Some people will never be able to call the apple the orange. Some will be able to off the bat. But I would expect a bell curve with this one in which most people would be happier to see you as whatever you like more often, if you more closely resemble what you are asking them to see you as.
 
Social attitudes may get to the point where whatever a person looks like doesn't matter with the identifier they use. But since it is apparent humans have all sorts of unconscious biases to do with things like race, sex, size, etc. I'm suspecting it's going to be a difficult task.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 08:51:49 am by T.K.G.W. »
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

Offline AnxietyDisord3r

  • Transit[ion] Operator
  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Reputation: +10/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2016, 05:45:03 pm »
Jossam, I am really sorry to hear that you have gotten to this place. You are a very intelligent and insightful person. I think from what you've described your feeling of despair centers around your fears that your family will never accept you. I think you need a plan to come out to your family. I think a lot of folks on here have some good advice as to how to do that. You are probably right that you need a supportive therapist or some sort of support system when you go through with this. Losing yourself in drugs is only postponing the inevitable. That you're using benzos really scares me because they're addictive, people act stupid on them, and they basically mess up people's lives and become the problem instead of the escape.

You are going to have to face your fears eventually. Have you tried awareness meditation? I found it really scary at first but it's much more effective than drugs/alcohol in the long run.

Offline jossam

  • ****
  • Posts: 170
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2016, 10:29:35 pm »
Jossam, I am really sorry to hear that you have gotten to this place. You are a very intelligent and insightful person. I think from what you've described your feeling of despair centers around your fears that your family will never accept you. I think you need a plan to come out to your family. I think a lot of folks on here have some good advice as to how to do that. You are probably right that you need a supportive therapist or some sort of support system when you go through with this. Losing yourself in drugs is only postponing the inevitable. That you're using benzos really scares me because they're addictive, people act stupid on them, and they basically mess up people's lives and become the problem instead of the escape.

You are going to have to face your fears eventually. Have you tried awareness meditation? I found it really scary at first but it's much more effective than drugs/alcohol in the long run.

Sorry for the late reply. I don't come here very often but thank you very much for the kind words and compliments.
Drugs and alcohol NEVER represent a solution to anything. Unfortunately, some people seem to be wired to be more prone to substance abuse. I'm not justifying myself though. It's entirely my own responsibility.
Benzos are safe and useful when you take them in a responsible way and when the doctors prescribing this to you actually know how they work and will monitor your use. I suffer from terrible anxiety so I need them, but taking more than prescribed or taking them to get a "high" is irresponsible behavior and I only blame myself for this. There's no one else to blame for this. I'm doing fine though, so no worries.

Believe me, I try talk therapies and stuff but they don't help with everything and they're not enough for me. It's just my case though. I definitely improved over the years but I feel like my life is made of pretty drastic ups and downs. Also, therapy gives you the tools to help yourself but in the end, it's up to you. Sometimes I use them, sometimes they don't work.

I know it's time for me to transition. I periodically discuss it with my sister whom I'm out to. She said she will help with parents. I'm still in college and it takes time for this stuff. I'd rather finish college and take steps towards physical transition when I'm done with studying.

It feels like it's the right time and the only thing that scares me is parents. Maybe they'll be ok with it and I'm being too scared for no reason, but you know.....I always assume the worst to be prepared just in case.
I have a supportive family member, my sister and supportive friends so I don't feel alone. I just fear parental reactions. After all, I still live with them and financially depend on them.

Offline WolfNightV4X1

  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
  • Reputation: +4/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Veni Vidi Vici
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2016, 07:16:09 pm »
Hugs man, take a deep breath and dont worry about it, one step at a time, once you make your way to independance you wont have to worry as much anymore, stay strong



Offline AnxietyDisord3r

  • Transit[ion] Operator
  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Reputation: +10/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Misgendering, hiding....it's making me sick and I'm on my way to addiction
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2016, 08:35:47 am »
If your parents aren't likely to cut you off while you're in college, have you considered transitioning while in school? That way you can segue right into a job with no problems. If you think you have emotional problems now, I can tell you from experience that graduating without a job lined up is no picnic. Trying to transition while unemployed or while marginally employed in that first job out of college is a tough climb. At school may be the simplest, easiest, and most supportive environment (unless you're at an evangelical Christian school or something).