Author Topic: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"  (Read 2297 times)

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Offline michelle1983

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I was sexually abused by a peer and physically and mentally abused in my home. The sexual abuse occurred starting when I was 10 the other thing that started then was drug use. My therapist went through my history with me and all the way back to before kindergarten there are pictures of me only with other girls. Playing dolls and playing house and while again these can be stereotypes they can also be an indication. According to my therapy the signs were always there but the abuse and subsequent drug use I used to black out a huge portion of my life and puberty my transness was also blacked out and was not rediscovered untill my 30s. So nope being abused that way didn't make me anything. Except stronger you can't be anything but strong after being so broken and then putting yourself back together.

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Offline denajtuk

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I always thought i was wrong from the start. There was nothing improper in my childhood.

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Offline flytrap

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Re: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2017, 11:59:09 am »
(The only girl alter of a Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder System resulting from childhood sexual and psychological abuse chiming in)

Although childhood sexual abuse (CSA) will not "make" a person gay or transgender, it often leaves the victim with severe gender and sexual confusion that can easily be mistaken for being gay or transgender. With it being three times more likely that a person was sexually abused as a child than them being gay or transgender, it is the go to diagnosis until it can be proven otherwise (Approximately 10% of the population experience CSA, compared to 2.5% who self-identify as gay or bisexual and another 0.3% who are transgender).

It can take a significant amount of therapy for a CSA survivor to admit to themself that the sexual abuse they suffered as a child is the cause of their gender or sexual confusion. In my case my Primary (a guy) was in therapy for 2 1/2 years until the time loss and flashbacks began and the doctors realized he wasn't transsexual and had Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder because of childhood trauma. The confusion can begin at a early age if the abuse occurs at critical stages in a child's development of gender and sexuality. Primary (the dominant alter if my System; he as guy) had memories of cross dressing before he was even in grade school, but it was really just me being me. Neither of us is gay or transgender. It makes it really tough to sort out the extremely small number of CSA survivors who are actually gay or transgender.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 07:53:04 pm by flytrap »

Offline Tessa James

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Re: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2017, 12:35:33 pm »
And, of course, the topic begs the question, What are the proper sexual experiences for children??

It is perfectly obvious that we live in a sex saturated culture in terms of attention grabbers, sales promotions and the hyper-titilated world of social media.  Conversely absent from our culture are positive and naturalistic depictions of whatever might serve as loving and intimate relationships.  Family planning and sex education are under constant attack while ignorance and abstinence programs fail the test.  What tools does a parent have?  How do we prepare our youth for loving vs exploitive relationships?

Children are natural explorers and we leave them to the internet to find out????   Seems a recipe for exploitive behaviors is currently perpetuated?
Open, out and evolving queer trans woman with HRT support since March 13, 2013

Online Sarah.VanDistel

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Consistently crossdressing since 1976, when I was 4 1/2 years-old, with spontaneous evolution towards awareness of gender dysphoria and recent decision to transition. Absolutely no history of improper sexual situation with another person or any other form of abuse.
The claims you mention are baseless and simply a reflection of other hidden agendas. Best defense: undogmatic education.
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Offline kaitylynn

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Re: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2017, 09:15:59 am »
I am another case of "knew from 4 or 5" with no history of any untoward sexual causation.  I was not abused sexually, though I did suffer from mental and emotional abuse through my dad's behavior towards my propensity to be a bit feminine.

My experimentation in to gender role melding did not involve any sexual activity either, so nothing there.  Just started to examine and follow my own heart so that I could cope with being me.

I have heard the theory that we as trans folk are primarily created through our environmental situation, but that is a theory that was dispelled decades ago.  Those people that site it any longer are just agenda driven people who need the excuse to justify a much larger picture (usually religious in nature) that they believe in.
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Offline WolfNightV4X1

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Re: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2017, 11:12:29 am »
(The only girl alter of a Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder System resulting from childhood sexual and psychological abuse chiming in)

Although childhood sexual abuse (CSA) will not "make" a person gay or transgender, it often leaves the victim with severe gender and sexual confusion that can easily be mistaken for being gay or transgender. With it being three times more likely that a person was sexually abused as a child than them being gay or transgender, it is the go to diagnosis until it can be proven otherwise (Approximately 10% of the population experience CSA, compared to 2.5% who self-identify as gay or bisexual and another 0.3% who are transgender).

It can take a significant amount of therapy for a CSA survivor to admit to themself that the sexual abuse they suffered as a child is the cause of their gender or sexual confusion. In my case my Primary (a guy) was in therapy for 2 1/2 years until the time loss and flashbacks began and the doctors realized he wasn't transsexual and had Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder because of childhood trauma. The confusion can begin at a early age if the abuse occurs at critical stages in a child's development of gender and sexuality. Primary (the dominant alter if my System; he as guy) had memories of cross dressing before he was even in grade school, but it was really just me being me. Neither of us is gay or transgender. It makes it really tough to sort out the extremely small number of CSA survivors who are actually gay or transgender.

I'm sorry to hear that,

But hey, thank you for that input, I appreciate that side of it. Im curious if most therapists look to possible CSA as a possible determining factor in deciding whether the child's sexuality or gender is not just confusion based on trauma or if it's the child's nature, rather than using CSA as an excuse to waive off their feelings as just a traumatic event and shut their feelings down. I'm sure once they look into that factor both they and the patient can determine the best course of action.


Im definitely curious about those statistics, thats very interesting, do you have any source on it? If not thats fine but I will look into that myself



Offline flytrap

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Re: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2017, 01:14:58 pm »
With homosexuality and transgenderism being so rare compared to other conditions that cause sexuality/gender confusion, it seems like this would be one of the primary reasons for the WPATH requirements for therapy?!?

My experience has been exact opposite of your concerns. Of the five doctors and psychologists who have treated me over the last 8 years, only one did not accept my understanding of self as reality- my Gender Therapist. Despite my guy alter's refusal that transition was not right for him, she insisted he was a transsexual in denial. There are always exceptions, but therapy play a really important role in easing transition and in preventing a failed one.

For obvious reasons the percentages for these groups are probably low, but here are the most recent verifiable statistics I could find:

(Over CSA statistics of 20.9% of population)
"Research conducted by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that approximately 1 in 6 boys and 1 in 4 girls are sexually abused before the age of 18."
U.S. Department of Justice National Sex Offender Public Website
https://www.nsopw.gov/en-US/Education/FactsStatistics

(Overall gay/transgender statistics of 3.0% of population)
"Among U.S. adults aged 18 and over, 97.7% identified as straight, 1.6% as gay or lesbian, and 0.7% as bisexual"
Sexual Orientation and Health Among U.S Adults, National Health Statistics Reports, Number 77, Jul 15, 2014. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr077.pdf

 "0.6% of adults, about 1.4 million, identify as transgender in the United States."
"How many adults identity as Transgender in the United States?" Williams Institute, April 2016.
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/How-Many-Adults-Identify-as-Transgender-in-the-United-States.pdf

Using these statistics, it is seven times more likely a person is suffering from the results of childhood sexual abuse than they are gay/transgender.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 08:07:59 pm by flytrap »

Online Kylo

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Re: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2017, 08:29:50 pm »
Exactly, if abuse caused transsexuality the numbers of transsexuals recorded for treatment you would think would be much greater since child abuse isn't the rarest thing to happen to people.

Offline josie76

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Re: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2017, 04:30:27 am »
Well as far as the "mental illness" argument goes, that's pure horse hockey! Here are some scientific studies. The problem has been psychologists like to theorize about people's mental states. They often have no idea what real scientific research has done in the medical field.



General Male Female Brain Differences

Gorski, Gordon, Shrayne, Southham 1978
   Medial proptic nucleas (MPON)

Allen, Hines, Shrayne, Gorski 1989
   Hypothalamus regions
      INAH3       2.8 times larger  in men
      INAH2       2 times larger in men
      Regions known to influence:
          gonotropin secretion,
maternal behavior in females,
sexual behavior in mammals

Allen 1989:    associated area with sexual functions
LeVay 1991:   associated area with sexual orientation

Allen, Gorski 1991
   Shape of splenium of corpus callosum
   Massa intermedia    53% larger in women
   Anterior commissure    12% larger in women

Hoffman, Swaab
   Preoptic anterior region of hypothalamus different between male and female
volume,
number cells,
neural structure

Transgender Involved or Related Studies

Garcia, Falgueras, Swaab 2008      hypothalamus
   Region INAH3 volume and number of neurons in trans person matches the identified gender.

Zhou, Hoffman, Gooren, Swaab 1995   hypothalamus
   Region BSTc  volume and number cells in trans person matches the identified gender

Kruijver 2000            hypothalamus
   Region BSTc number neurons in trans person matches the identified gender

Yokota, Kawamura, Kameya 2005
   Corpus callosum: claim to be able to make clinical diagnosis based on size

Rametti, Carrillo, Gomez-Gil, Junque 2011
   White Matter microstructures in transwomen similar to cis women

Simon, Kozak, Simon 2013
   Grey Matter cerebellum, left angular gyrus, left inferior parietal lobe match identified gender

Zubiarre, Elorza 2013
   Transwomen: feminization regions of right hemisphere
   Transmen: substantial subcortal masculinization

Luders 2012
   Cortical thickness of transwomen similar to ciswomen and greater than cismen.
   Left hemisphere: frontal, orbitao-frontal lobe, central sulcus, perisylvian region, paracental cortex
   Right hemisphere: pre/post central gyrus, parietal cortex, temporal cortex, precuneus, fusiform
      Lingual, orbito-frontal gyrus



Other studies:

Govier, Diamond, Wolowiec, Slade 2010
   Hearing response to particular sounds, trans people reacted similar to identified gender

Berglund, Lindstrom, Dheine-Helmy, Savic 2008
   Smell: response to a particular scent, trans people reacted similar to identified gender (active brain scan)

Autoszewski, Zadzinski, Foczpanski 2009
   Teeth: transgender tooth pattern difference (has something to do with the front teeth but one study of dentists could only identify male, female teeth accurately 50% of the time. The other 50% of the samples were ambiguous and no correct ID trend was found)

Behavioral Studies:

Bao, Swaab 2011
   Showed rearing could not override inborn gender identity

Mathews, Fane, Conway, Brook, Hines 2009
Nordenstrm, Servin, Bohlin, Larsson, Wedell 2002

   Both studies found prenatal androgen levels significantly effects play behavior and personality characteristics
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Offline flytrap

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Re: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2017, 09:20:44 am »
if abuse caused transsexuality the numbers of transsexuals recorded for treatment you would think would be much greater since child abuse isn't the rarest thing to happen to people.

Exactly!!!

Offline Daniellekai

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Re: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2017, 12:54:21 pm »
I had a very happy childhood, with fond memories of being kicked out of my sister's bedroom while trying to play with her Barbies...

Offline SailorMars1994

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Re: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2017, 01:13:15 pm »

Some people still cling to the mythos, as it provides a comforting rationale, a way to assign 'blame' for what they perceive as a sinful or imperfect state in a person, rather than having to accept that this is simply the way some of us are wired.  That perpetuates the social damage associated with being transgender, unfortunately, allowing us to be viewed as 'damaged goods' rather than human beings.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2004/06/the_cutting_edge.html
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/12935/title/Reevaluating-Sex-Reassignment/
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1998-pediatric-ethics.html

There is in fact more to us than a Phall-O-Meter reading.  (An actual thing!)


Yup you got that right Michelle. Alot of my family either believed this non sense or still does. I was abused, phyisically, mentally and in a case with an older cousin sexually. However, i experienced wantings to be the female gender even before the sexual abuse happened so i can rule without question that particualr abuse would have had no impact on me. But i had others abuses by some male members within my family and the ones who do not approve of my transition like to place blame on them for me beign a girl. See to them, or atleast most of those ones they would rather beleive, and have me beleive i am an emotionally unstable, stupid, confused, truama laden man who is basically damaged good (unless i work my arse off to become the most succseful man ever and love every thing male i have left and work on getting back every male i shredded off) then swallow their pride and be happy that i am blossoming into the woman i always should have been from the start! The thing they also should know is that when they keep using my past truamas agaisnt me it doesnt make me want to try and give manhood another chance (even though i went down that road before and suffered alot) or think ''hmmm if i do x,y and z i can become this man everyone else wants'', quite the opposite. It makes me resent being born male even more as know i am feeling smothered and being pushed ,once again into the mans world.
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Offline RobynD

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Re: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2017, 02:11:24 pm »
It would be laughable if a significant swath of people did not believe that junk. It's a convenient explanation for people that see anything outside of a traditional heteronormative life as "bad". Some bunk sort of science sounding thing to grab ahold of.

The reason they cite "improper sexual experiences" is because they are so universal and the label is fuzzy grey to begin with. What about all the hetero people that experienced such things?



Offline Deborah

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They have to believe this or some other equally ridiculous explanation because the truth that people are born with this clashes with their creation mythos and to admit that is false undermines all their other beliefs.


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Offline gwencook

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Re: TW: "Homosexuality/Transgender is caused by improper sexual experiences"
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2017, 02:34:53 pm »
Without getting to personal about this I have been sexually abused by the person I trusted most for more then 5 years, and started when I turned 18. I knew when I was a child I wasn't the same as other boys and often expressed my true side (until a series of things stopped me and I buried it for years).
When I was doing what I had to I often wished during and after that I could get rid of my appendage. Yet, my feelings of being different started from when I was a child. So, in answer to your question I don't think its the abuse that causes someone to be LGBT but could cause them to question themselves and therefore bring realisations about their true self which they could have buried for years like it did for me.
I'm not saying what I experienced caused me to be trans (nor would it for other's) but did make me question a lot of things which in turn lead me to rediscovering my true self, so perhaps it does also for others.

Offline Gilbert Rose

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(The only girl alter of a Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder System resulting from childhood sexual and psychological abuse chiming in)

Although childhood sexual abuse (CSA) will not "make" a person gay or transgender, it often leaves the victim with severe gender and sexual confusion that can easily be mistaken for being gay or transgender. With it being three times more likely that a person was sexually abused as a child than them being gay or transgender, it is the go to diagnosis until it can be proven otherwise (Approximately 10% of the population experience CSA, compared to 2.5% who self-identify as gay or bisexual and another 0.3% who are transgender).

It can take a significant amount of therapy for a CSA survivor to admit to themself that the sexual abuse they suffered as a child is the cause of their gender or sexual confusion. In my case my Primary (a guy) was in therapy for 2 1/2 years until the time loss and flashbacks began and the doctors realized he wasn't transsexual and had Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder because of childhood trauma. The confusion can begin at a early age if the abuse occurs at critical stages in a child's development of gender and sexuality. Primary (the dominant alter if my System; he as guy) had memories of cross dressing before he was even in grade school, but it was really just me being me. Neither of us is gay or transgender. It makes it really tough to sort out the extremely small number of CSA survivors who are actually gay or transgender.

(Triggering stuff: mental health + hospitalization).

Firstly, I'd like to start by saying that I'm sorry you've had those experiences. I myself am a victim of trauma, multiple and too much to list. My abuse and trauma unfortunately started at a very young age, I can't pinpoint it. I also can't pinpoint when I began to feel like a man. I can't pinpoint when I became extremely depressed. But it was regardless, all at a young age.

My therapist and I have slowly been working though all of my abuse and trauma, and I did start to see how much they're linked to my gender and sexuality... One event that stands out for me, was loosing my virginity at about 10 years old in a pub bathroom, with a girl who was about 14. I guess from then onwards, I got uncomfortable in my body, scared of the developed female body (as mine wasn't at that point) and felt more like a man. Which I guess is understandable.

There are more events that took place across my life, sexually abusive men at age 13-15, sexual assault 15, and my father was always abusive from as young as my memory can go back.

I would say I feel like multiple people are staying in this body of mine, it's as if my physical body is a hotel for them, they like to switch about. My therapist has recently said that my sexual abuse has most likely contributed to my sexuality and gender. He says it makes sense to want to be a man, as they've been the ones in control my whole life, that it makes sense that I want to be "the dominant one".

Although I don't have a dissociative identity disorder, or any other personality disorder, I've had past therapists assume I was developing one, and I'm in the process of being hospitalized to a placement that deal with ptsd and help prevent personality disorders.

A part of me is scared of never feeling like a man again after discharge, a part of me wonders if I'm actually Trans or if it is a scar left behind from the trauma. Either way, I want testosterone. I feel like it'll help me get over what's happened to my "female" body. My dislike to my body is definitely more abuse fueled than anything else.

I do feel like a let-down to the transsexual community, like I'm the bad-rep, the one that fits into ignorant stereotypes perfectly; the mentally ill, sexually abused transsexual.



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Offline Amanda_Combs

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(Triggering stuff: mental health + hospitalization).

Firstly, I'd like to start by saying that I'm sorry you've had those experiences. I myself am a victim of trauma, multiple and too much to list. My abuse and trauma unfortunately started at a very young age, I can't pinpoint it. I also can't pinpoint when I began to feel like a man. I can't pinpoint when I became extremely depressed. But it was regardless, all at a young age.

My therapist and I have slowly been working though all of my abuse and trauma, and I did start to see how much they're linked to my gender and sexuality... One event that stands out for me, was loosing my virginity at about 10 years old in a pub bathroom, with a girl who was about 14. I guess from then onwards, I got uncomfortable in my body, scared of the developed female body (as mine wasn't at that point) and felt more like a man. Which I guess is understandable.

There are more events that took place across my life, sexually abusive men at age 13-15, sexual assault 15, and my father was always abusive from as young as my memory can go back.

I would say I feel like multiple people are staying in this body of mine, it's as if my physical body is a hotel for them, they like to switch about. My therapist has recently said that my sexual abuse has most likely contributed to my sexuality and gender. He says it makes sense to want to be a man, as they've been the ones in control my whole life, that it makes sense that I want to be "the dominant one".

Although I don't have a dissociative identity disorder, or any other personality disorder, I've had past therapists assume I was developing one, and I'm in the process of being hospitalized to a placement that deal with ptsd and help prevent personality disorders.

A part of me is scared of never feeling like a man again after discharge, a part of me wonders if I'm actually Trans or if it is a scar left behind from the trauma. Either way, I want testosterone. I feel like it'll help me get over what's happened to my "female" body. My dislike to my body is definitely more abuse fueled than anything else.

I do feel like a let-down to the transsexual community, like I'm the bad-rep, the one that fits into ignorant stereotypes perfectly; the mentally ill, sexually abused transsexual.
I'm really sorry that such harmeful things have happened to you.  And it's not your fault you happen to fit that stereotype.  The problem with stereotypes is that they're directed so broadly at a whole group.  It's very likely someone will fit it. But your experiences and traumas are yours, as an individual, and you should never feel shame or guilt because of it.


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Offline RoryM

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Never had sexual abuse let alone any other forms of abuse growing up. I'm still a virgin and haven't had my first kiss so no 'improper' sexual relations there. I knew something was off since I was a small child and then dysphoria really hit during puberty. Also really sheltered and grew up in a conservative Christian home. My dad isn't weak and my mom isn't strong, they're both balanced individuals.

I'm sure there are some people who think they are gay or trans but are that way because of sexual abuse (have read some stories on it) but they're in the vast minority. The majority of gay and trans people, even the ones who were sexually abused, don't seem to be confused over identity or attraction.

Offline Paige

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I knew when I was 5.  No sexual abuse.  Lots of physical and emotional abuse from my father though.  I wasn't a happy child and he didn't like my feminine leanings and would quickly get angry when I displayed them. I'm definitely proof you can't beat the gender out of someone but you can make them terrified to be their true self.

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