Author Topic: Trans and drag?  (Read 3596 times)

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Offline undautri

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Trans and drag?
« on: April 08, 2017, 05:33:23 pm »
Hey there everyone, I have been wondering about everyone's opinions on those who transition but then choose to do drag, like if a born female transitions to a male and then becomes a drag queen. I want to know what you guys think of it.
  Do you think it's cheating, or not?
  Do you think it is a sign the person didn't want to transition, or is just an outlet?
  Please reply, I really want to know what this community thinks about this subject
kindest regards possible,
Clay

Offline LizK

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2017, 09:17:07 pm »
Hey there everyone, I have been wondering about everyone's opinions on those who transition but then choose to do drag, like if a born female transitions to a male and then becomes a drag queen. I want to know what you guys think of it.
  Do you think it's cheating, or not?
  Do you think it is a sign the person didn't want to transition, or is just an outlet?
  Please reply, I really want to know what this community thinks about this subject

Hi undautri

If I understand what you are asking, it is this...... if a FTM transitions, do we as a community think it is some form of cheating for them to become a drag queen, I am guessing you mean if they were  "really FTM trans" you think they would be a drag king? and if someone did this, then did this person make a mistake in transitioning because they chose to be a drag queen as opposed to a drag King which meant they really wanted to be a girl in the first place...

I hope I understood the question and here are my thoughts...

I think we need to separate fact from fiction

Transgender Men ARE Men
Transgender Women ARE Women

Drag Kings/Queens are Artists and therefore professionals doing a job. , Not all drag performers are Gay, not all drag performers are straight, not all drag performers have surgery, some drag performers have surgery, Not all Drag performers are Trans, you don't have to be Trans to be a Drag performer, some drag performers are Trans....

If you are FTM you ARE and always have been a man.

If a man, chooses to do drag, in part, because he has certain physical characteristics that will help with the persona he is creating, then half his luck, is what I would say. It has nothing to do with weather that person is really trans or not,  they are not necessarily related in any way.

So with those thoughts maybe you can answer that question of yours... :)

Liz
HRT since 17 May 2016, Fulltime from 8 March 2017, Transition Begun 25 September 2015 
GCS 4 December 2018,

When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be – Lao Tzu

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Offline ele

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2017, 05:07:27 am »
I don't think it's cheating. I'm currently a big fan of Peppermint on RPDR season 9 who is a trans woman :)

Offline undautri

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2017, 06:38:04 am »
Hey, I know it's been a month since I asked but I have to thank the both of you for your answers.  ;D
  Anything is helpful.
kindest regards possible,
Clay

Offline eyesk8rboi

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2017, 02:30:32 pm »
OMG! I've been wondering this exact thing.
I want to be the first FTM contestant on Ru Paul's drag race.....


I can dream right???  :icon_female:
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Offline Julia1996

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2017, 03:52:37 pm »
A guy I work with does drag. He's just a regular gay guy. He doesn't take hrt and hasn't had any kind of surgery. He is very opinionated on the subject of trans women doing drag. He doesn't consider transwomen " real drag artists"  in his words. He says the point of doing drag is for a man to create a female illusion and that taking hrt, FFS, etc is cheating. He gets very upset talking about some transgirl who does drag at the club he performs at and says she shouldn't be allowed to perform or enter drag competitions.  It's like a major sore point for him. My opinion on transwomen doing drag? I couldn't care less. I don't like drag shows and I don't really understand why any transgirl would want to get in front of a club full of people and announce that she is a man pretending to be a woman. It's totally crazy to me. But hey, to each their own.  As for a transguy doing drag I don't think that would be cheating. After they have been on testosterone a while they totally look like men so how would it be different from any guy doing drag?  Gay transmen fascinate me. I had never considered gay tranaguys before. That's like really ignorant I know but until I saw some transmen on YouTube and joined this site I knew almost nothing about FtMs. Then I saw a guy on YouTube named upperchase and he was fem and talking about being trans. I thought he was mtf and hadn't transitioned yet. I was amazed when he started talking about being a transguy. He's hilarious and his YouTube channel is really cool.
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Offline eyesk8rboi

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2017, 04:01:06 pm »
I had never considered gay tranaguys before. That's like really ignorant I know but until I saw some transmen on YouTube and joined this site I knew almost nothing about FtMs. Then I saw a guy on YouTube named upperchase and he was fem and talking about being trans. I thought he was mtf and hadn't transitioned yet. I was amazed when he started talking about being a transguy. He's hilarious and his YouTube channel is really cool.

OMG....So! Kind of off topic to continue on this point, but like, I totally get that!
My mother knows these two trans women. Both are "straight" as they say....As men they were interested in women and as women they are still interested in women, but they're both together (I believe they're actually married now) and pre-bottom surgery, so we literally just wrack our brains and wonder how that works every time we talk about them.

I always feel so bigoted for getting confused by it, especially considering I'm pan sexual myself and could care less, but these two are very openly, exclusively attracted to women...So like??? I know it's not my place to full understand and it's honestly none of my business but I think about this stuff all the time.

I know two trans men that are also together, which both of them are bisexual, so that one doesn't wrack my brain as much.
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Offline Julia1996

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2017, 04:35:52 pm »
OMG....So! Kind of off topic to continue on this point, but like, I totally get that!
My mother knows these two trans women. Both are "straight" as they say....As men they were interested in women and as women they are still interested in women, but they're both together (I believe they're actually married now) and pre-bottom surgery, so we literally just wrack our brains and wonder how that works every time we talk about them.

I always feel so bigoted for getting confused by it, especially considering I'm pan sexual myself and could care less, but these two are very openly, exclusively attracted to women...So like??? I know it's not my place to full understand and it's honestly none of my business but I think about this stuff all the time.

I know two trans men that are also together, which both of them are bisexual, so that one doesn't wrack my brain as much.

I think maybe trans people don't put so much into what's between someone's legs. Probably cause we know what its like to be one gender and have the genitalia of another. I think the mtf couple work because they both present as women no matter what's between their legs. I am only attracted to males. I would not ever be attracted to another mtf because grs or not they are  female.On the same note I would date a transguy. A transguy is still a guy no matter what's between his legs. If he presents as a guy and I found him attractive I could totally get past what's between his legs.
Does that help make it more understandable?
Julia
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Offline Liv_J

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2017, 01:00:03 pm »
I noticed that the original post was about situations like a FTM trans man peforming as a drag queen - ie.  Performing the gender they were originally assigned as. I don't know about the motivation of it but would assume it would be for fun and because they like that kind of show/art form. And maybe sometimes there are still aspects of the gender presentation associated with their originally assigned gender that they quite like or at least like to play with and revisit occasionally. I do find the idea of someone that, say, identifies as a trans woman and wants to perform as a drag queen a bit odd, and it's not drag in the usual sense of the word. On the other hand I guess the typical drag queen look doesn't bear that much resemblance to an everyday woman, so maybe some like the extravagance and artistry of it as a thing of its own (without the usual cross gender implication of drag). For that matter I've heard of faux queens as a term for (generally cis) women who like to dress up like drag queens.   

Offline Janes Groove

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2017, 07:47:00 pm »
I don't really understand why any transgirl would want to get in front of a club full of people and announce that she is a man pretending to be a woman. It's totally crazy to me.

I'm not sure they think of themselves that way.  There are a lot of transgender women in the drag scene today.  Many of them got into drag before they started to transition.  When they were in their male/questioning phase.  Drag provided them with an outlet and safe space to explore their gender identity in a community of supportive gender nonconformers.   They medically transition but still continue drag because they like it.  Many of their performances are not so much about going over the top high femme but singing and dancing to classical show tunes and showing the audience that they are just beautiful woman.  Sort of like what women get out of pole dancing.  Some of them are really true artists in the performances they create.  And they obviously enjoy the act of creating a beautiful work of art.  For some it is about playing with the idea of gender.  Challenging the viewers preconceptions of gender.  Sort of like a creative outlet where they won't be judged or ridiculed.   They are today's drag artists who are changing the form itself in a changing society.  Also, I think it must be kind of a turn on for them to be on stage and get the feedback of turning on a room full of guys.  In that way it is a stroke to their ego and a affirmation to themselves of their own femininity.  I get that.  And I think there is an element of "Hey look at me. Aren't you jealous?" to all the other drag queens.  Also, it's not just transgender women who benefit and learn from drag.  Tyra Banks once said On America's Next Top Model that she learned a lot about how to be a model from drag queens.
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Offline Jenntrans

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2017, 03:37:59 pm »
Hey there everyone, I have been wondering about everyone's opinions on those who transition but then choose to do drag, like if a born female transitions to a male and then becomes a drag queen. I want to know what you guys think of it.
  Do you think it's cheating, or not?
  Do you think it is a sign the person didn't want to transition, or is just an outlet?
  Please reply, I really want to know what this community thinks about this subject

Look hun, everyone has to make a living so if that is what it takes then at least they are not living off my taxes that I pay and I thank them and am a fan. Look I don't care who is who or who was what or anything else.

I am a Nirvana Fan so "Here we are now. Entertain us." I mean I watch Trixie an Katia on Vice. Trixie is too drag but still entertaining. Katia is.. is ... well she is beautiful even in drag. :embarrassed:

Cheating is when you have a partner and you choose to sleep with someone else other than you partner. Cheating at being trans while dressing in drag? LOL. No. What are you cheating? How are you cheating? Are you playing cards or living life?

Look no one cheats that is trans unless it is on the lover.

But there are so many drag shows and what makes me feel sorry for our brothers is that MTF drag is more in demand. IU mean check out some porn sights and check out the difference between MTR compared to FTM. Personally I would climb Buck Angel like an Oak Tree and let him do to me whatever he wanted and that would include more kink than most could handle. :embarrassed:

Offline undautri

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2017, 04:22:19 pm »
Hey Jenntrans, thanks for replying

I didn't mean to cause any offence by asking. I asked because as a FTM I started using drag as a method of coping earlier on in my transition. It made being a woman more of a game than a reality that I was forced to live with, always focused on making light of situations, playing a role...

  the reason I asked so long ago was because I was wondering what people would think if i carried on as a faux queen and went into being a full drag queen. If they'd think it was cheating if i did so. I don't plan on doing it because it only worked until I came home and the makeup came off, and when the woman in the mirror didn't go away, well...
It was a hypothetical I was playing with and wondered how this community felt about that situation.
kindest regards possible,
Clay

Offline Jenntrans

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2017, 01:00:55 pm »
Hey Jenntrans, thanks for replying

I didn't mean to cause any offence by asking. I asked because as a FTM I started using drag as a method of coping earlier on in my transition. It made being a woman more of a game than a reality that I was forced to live with, always focused on making light of situations, playing a role...

  the reason I asked so long ago was because I was wondering what people would think if i carried on as a faux queen and went into being a full drag queen. If they'd think it was cheating if i did so. I don't plan on doing it because it only worked until I came home and the makeup came off, and when the woman in the mirror didn't go away, well...
It was a hypothetical I was playing with and wondered how this community felt about that situation.

Oh no you didn't offend me and probably shouldn't have anyone else either. We all have to make a living and or do what it takes to cope. So go for it. I mean it felt better when I was young to think of dressing as a boy as crossdressing. So I do get what you are saying. For me it was a coping mechanism until I got to the point of IDGAF.

But in total relation to the "cheating part" No. I would say on that part that it is a coping mechanism and not cheating or anywhere close to the definition of cheating. So if you are a trans man and want to do drag then it is a paycheck and not too bad of one at that. It is the same if you are a transwoman or a gay man too.

So don't ever feel bad about not being true to the community because you need to eat and make a living too. If you are using the drag or crossdressing like I did to cope then that is totally OK too and no I would not consider it cheating.

Yes we are a community but we are also individuals and what works for one person may not work so good for another. Being human is not a one size fits all experience.

Offline virtualverny

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2017, 08:58:44 am »
I'm a transguy and I've always wanted to be a drag queen; I've always thought that drag is the perfect way to show how solid I am in my masculinity while exploring a form of art. I know it's different for everyone though :)

Offline Jailyn

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2017, 09:24:59 am »
Hi undautri

If I understand what you are asking, it is this...... if a FTM transitions, do we as a community think it is some form of cheating for them to become a drag queen, I am guessing you mean if they were  "really FTM trans" you think they would be a drag king? and if someone did this, then did this person make a mistake in transitioning because they chose to be a drag queen as opposed to a drag King which meant they really wanted to be a girl in the first place...

I hope I understood the question and here are my thoughts...

I think we need to separate fact from fiction

Transgender Men ARE Men
Transgender Women ARE Women

Drag Kings/Queens are Artists and therefore professionals doing a job. , Not all drag performers are Gay, not all drag performers are straight, not all drag performers have surgery, some drag performers have surgery, Not all Drag performers are Trans, you don't have to be Trans to be a Drag performer, some drag performers are Trans....

If you are FTM you ARE and always have been a man.

If a man, chooses to do drag, in part, because he has certain physical characteristics that will help with the persona he is creating, then half his luck, is what I would say. It has nothing to do with weather that person is really trans or not,  they are not necessarily related in any way.

So with those thoughts maybe you can answer that question of yours... :)

Liz

I think Elizabeth nailed it!!! Crossdressing doesn't have to deal with your gender persay. I think you are safe and it doesn't make you any less trans for wanting to crossdress. It is intriguing thought though.

Offline Kiera

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2017, 10:45:58 am »
  Please reply, I really want to know what this community thinks about this subject

I love the drag shows!! And the guys who attend them!! BF's Eddie and Casimiro, who I helped open Friends Tavern in Jackson Heights, sponsor a "Gala" every year!!

Some past FaceBook covers here!! Feel like such a timid mouse when I attend such events why do we take ourselves soooo seriously when all these people do is HAVE FUN???
"But it's no use now," thought poor Alice, "to pretend be two people!
"Why, there's hardly enough of me left to make one respectable person!"

Offline Jenntrans

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2018, 05:02:55 pm »
What difference does it make really? I would say none. Do Drag because most men will not admit it but they are kind ... infatuated with it????

Even the series Blue Bloods tackled this issue in a good light.

Look Trans is not a right or left issue when it comes to the president. It is a Representative and Senate issue because the two houses are the Legislative Branch. All the president can do is sign it into law or veto it. Our reps have been too quiet for too long. They are to cowardly to face the issue. So maybe instead of blaming the Executive branch the we should blame the Legislative branch. An Executive Order is not Law. A bill goes through the house and then the senate and if the senate doesn't like it goes back to the house and then the senate and then back tot the house and ten back to the senate and then if agreed upon to the president and the pres can either veto or sign into law. The trans thing was an executive order and signed by the president in charge at the time. He  served his time and that was it. Does trans need to serve? Oh yeah but not through an executive order but by law. Brought into law by the House and the Senate and then brought to the to the executive branch to sign or veto.

Does anyone else remember the songs on Saturday morning like " I'm Just a Bill" messing up our cartoons on Saturday mornings? LOL. Well 24 hour cartoons probably not. That one "diddy" taught me more about Civics than my 9th grade Civics teacher eve did.

Online Devlyn

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2018, 07:07:27 pm »
I'm just a bill
A lonely old bill
And im stuck here
Up on Capitol Hill

and...

Conjunction Junction
What's your function?

Offline Jenntrans

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2018, 01:32:29 pm »
I'm just a bill
A lonely old bill
And im stuck here
Up on Capitol Hill

and...

Conjunction Junction
What's your function?

OMG Devlyn you are so old. ;) :laugh:. I remember when cartoons were  limited to Saturday mornings pretty much. There were a couple on Sunday mornings but now cartoons are a 24 hour thing and kids are bombarded constantly by cartoons. Maybe a little out of touch with reality? Hell I also remember Sesame Street and The Electric Company not to mention The Muppet Show on PBS. We had no choice but to go outside an play and even use our imaginations because Atari really sucked if you could afford one. After a while that even got boring.

On a psych level there is a difference. Drag is men dressing as women for some sort of stress relief, maybe testing yourself, or about a thousand other reasons and some may pertain to sexual release or not. Most are secure as men and maybe even more so than most men. Trans is more dedicated to wanting to change the outside to match more the inside. I am a weird example though. Sometimes the "man" takes over and about the time I invested growing my leg hair, underarm hair and so on, the woman takes back over and then I am back in the tub shaving again. But there is no one way to be either or and drag I assume is no different. The "woman" lasts a lot longer than the "man" in me.

I will say one thing and this pertains to everyone and that is the human condition is not a cookie cutter where you either are this or that or one thing or another. We are all different and although we are a social species we are also individuals. When we follow the herd like cows and sheep then the herd leads us. So be you and nothing more. Learn how to get along alone and not depend on the heard or AKA society to validate you.

Trans and drag? So what? All I see is people and treat them with respect unless they disrespect me. Jung talked about the "herd mentality" and that goes all ways. Just something to think about and hopefully read or research.

Offline Lady Lisandra

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Re: Trans and drag?
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2018, 02:52:13 pm »
Nowadays the concept of drag has changed a bit. It's not only about giving the ilusion of the other gender, but about creating a character with a visual impact.

There are men doing female drag characters and men doing male characters, the same happens for women. There are drag artists that create androginous drag characters. There are some that don't even look human! It's not about the gender of the artist anymore, it's about the character. What's wrong with a trans girl that likes to be a drag queen sometimes? Or with a trans guy? If you like it, then do it. Don't let anyone question your decition to transition because of it. Like gender and sexuality, they are different things.
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