Author Topic: How can I educate my wife (without her knowing)?  (Read 1529 times)

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Offline PaulaLee

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Re: How can I educate my wife (without her knowing)?
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2017, 09:40:28 am »
Yes, I have read so much here and, believe me, I apply each persons experiences and life-lessons to how my scenario might play out. Recently, and especially in the last few weeks, I have gone from thinking "I am so ready to do this" to "What the <not allowed> am I thinking?" and back again. I know my story is not new.

I know my wife may very well take the position that everything we have done has been a lie. I almost would expect that. But for that to really be true, it would assume that I was always resolute in who I was and lied about it. I wasn't. I have honest plausible deniability. And actually, I have not totally been hiding anyway. I think she just separates things into just temporary sexual fantasy. I could use many examples of hints and almost outright admissions though but just for example and more recently: I was away for work and and video chatting with her and actually (in the moment) showed her my panties. At the end, she asked me where I got them and I said I bought them here but said they are hard for me to buy and she said she would get me some. She actually sent me some pics while she was shopping for them and I picked the ones I liked. It was a fantasy moment and I even messaged back that I love panty shopping with her. She still didn't ask me about anything and just chalks it up to a small sexual turn-on. I mean, I know that wasn't "coming-out" on my part but if I mentioned all the moments and comments like that, (I think) it should be obvious.

I mean, I think sometimes that I just underestimate her and she knows and that when I do tell her she will say, "of course I know". In that scenario she wouldn't be shocked and appalled but in some ways, THAT scenario is also concerning because maybe it would mean she has already made the conscious choice not to accept or encourage it.

In my fairytale, she would say, of course I know, I have been waiting for you to be ready.

This site has been amazingly informative and therapeutic and it has also been fun sharing comments about shoes and makeup and lingerie shopping and I have joked about stuff and even joked about my wife. But, I do understand the enormity of it and that however that conversation goes, or her reaction, it will be a life changing moment for both... the moment she accepts, or rejects, or as in Makaela's wife's case, withdraws into soul searching limbo for a few days. I understand that that moment will change the remainder of mine, my wife's, and depending upon how it unfolds, many other's lives, and even changes our history. All those events and pictures that were remembered one way will now be revisited and overlayed with this new information.

We once had a fire years ago that destroyed everything we had. It was a very emotional time but it was not all instantaneous. Seemed like everyday and even months later, she would break down recalling another thing that was destroyed or changed by that fire. I hated to see her in such pain for so long and wondered what she will recall tomorrow. I can hope it would not be like that but, I am also aware, it could be worse and longer lasting. 

Joanna

You know, this is just a thought but perhaps when you return you could have a conversation with her about what she was thinking when shopping for your panties.  Perhaps you can glean some information on her thoughts .  Was it a sexual thing for her or something else.  It can start as a casual conversation and see where it goes but be somewhat prepared in case it takes a turn somewhere you are not ready for.  Just a thought and does that make sense?
Paula

Offline Joanna2

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Re: How can I educate my wife (without her knowing)?
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2017, 12:01:03 pm »
You know, this is just a thought but perhaps when you return you could have a conversation with her about what she was thinking when shopping for your panties.  Perhaps you can glean some information on her thoughts .  Was it a sexual thing for her or something else.  It can start as a casual conversation and see where it goes but be somewhat prepared in case it takes a turn somewhere you are not ready for.  Just a thought and does that make sense?
Paula

Paula,
It does make sense. I was certainly trying to get a reaction out of her then. I mean, I wasn't picking white granny panties, she was like "Which ones do you like?", I'm like, "What do you think about those cute little pink ones, would they look good on me?"... "How about these styles?..." "I want those little lacy pink hipsters with the cute little white bows, size 7". LOL. You think I was obvious? I will prod her more about it. Thanks for your help
Joanna

Offline aaajjj55

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Re: How can I educate my wife (without her knowing)?
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2017, 01:24:26 am »
Joanna

Another thing struck me that may help you.

After my wife got over the initial shock of my confession, she was quite supportive for a while.   Things were going well and she wanted to participate more so persuaded me to dress in front of her.  As I put everything on, her mood gradually changed - it was a bit like rain clouds gathering in a clear sky - and, a few days later, I was given the ultimatum.

The problem, I think, stemmed from the fact that, prior to the fateful dressing session, she'd viewed my CDing as some form of sexual fetish; she'd bought me a couple of items which we'd used in the bedroom and assumed that my collection of clothing would put a drag queen to shame.  When the reality hit her - smart dresses, skirts and suits and plain high heeled pumps - she started to realise that this wasn't a fetish but something far deeper.  At that point, I think she realised that there was a real risk of seeing the man she married evaporate before her eyes and did not want anything more to happen which would fuel that situation further.

To be clear, I understand her position completely; I wish she could be more tolerant but, equally, if things were the other way round and she was the TG half of the relationship, I know that I would find it very difficult to cope with.  At the end of the day, whilst we do not choose to be TG, whatever we do thereafter is a choice and choices, unfortunately, don't always have good consequences.

It struck me that your wife may view the panties incident and, indeed, your 5" stilettos, mini-dress etc. if and when you reveal them to her as a sexual fetish and go along with it to spice up the marriage.  Remember that these are not items which the vast majority of women would ever consider wearing at all and only a small minority would wear on a night out!  The potential game changer comes when you dress as a real woman would, either for a day at the office or a shopping trip with friends and this is when the reality may kick in with your wife.

I hope things go well for you.

Offline Joanna2

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Re: How can I educate my wife (without her knowing)?
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2017, 08:55:31 am »
Joanna

Another thing struck me that may help you.

After my wife got over the initial shock of my confession, she was quite supportive for a while.   Things were going well and she wanted to participate more so persuaded me to dress in front of her.  As I put everything on, her mood gradually changed - it was a bit like rain clouds gathering in a clear sky - and, a few days later, I was given the ultimatum.

The problem, I think, stemmed from the fact that, prior to the fateful dressing session, she'd viewed my CDing as some form of sexual fetish; she'd bought me a couple of items which we'd used in the bedroom and assumed that my collection of clothing would put a drag queen to shame.  When the reality hit her - smart dresses, skirts and suits and plain high heeled pumps - she started to realise that this wasn't a fetish but something far deeper.  At that point, I think she realised that there was a real risk of seeing the man she married evaporate before her eyes and did not want anything more to happen which would fuel that situation further.

To be clear, I understand her position completely; I wish she could be more tolerant but, equally, if things were the other way round and she was the TG half of the relationship, I know that I would find it very difficult to cope with.  At the end of the day, whilst we do not choose to be TG, whatever we do thereafter is a choice and choices, unfortunately, don't always have good consequences.

It struck me that your wife may view the panties incident and, indeed, your 5" stilettos, mini-dress etc. if and when you reveal them to her as a sexual fetish and go along with it to spice up the marriage.  Remember that these are not items which the vast majority of women would ever consider wearing at all and only a small minority would wear on a night out!  The potential game changer comes when you dress as a real woman would, either for a day at the office or a shopping trip with friends and this is when the reality may kick in with your wife.

I hope things go well for you.

Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you and thank you for sharing. It is my exact fear that she honestly does not accept me, even part time, even as just a cross-dresser (me and about ten million others). I think the reality for me would probably be more like you describe, that she would give it an honest shot but have a hard time with some of the realities later and say I just can't do it. I can only imagine where that has left your relationship (assuming yous are still together). I am sure it has now made for some awkward times. It is not like it is something you can negotiate like, "Ok, How about just on Sundays?" This whole thread started with me trying to figure out how to get my wife's reaction without taking the leap but it seems like it takes jumping in with both feet to really find out.

Actually, at this rate, I would take just Sundays. Actually as you have implied, it may be best for me to present it and keep it as a sexual fetish in her mind and control myself. She has seen some of that side of me although I have never cross-dressed with her besides panties. Even if it does get to the point of her dressing me and us going out (amazing), I think she could accept that as play much easier than if I started talking dysphoria and transgender. I, like you (assuming), would not follow through given an ultimatum. Of course, if she accepted even that as play, I have to then limit myself to how much and how often I want to "play". I do now wear panties and such most of the time so that would have to be worked out (or I just cheat). I do have a hard time recognizing boundaries or reading her sometimes. Ok, without getting too sexual, I have an example story...

We once went to a "club" where there were a lot of cross-dressers and such. We were not in the states so it was a little different. Those clubs were mixed in with other clubs on the strip so its not like we went out of our way to find a place like that. We were just partying and club hopping. We were partying and playing and dancing with some of "girls" that club and with each other too. But I misread the moment and thought it was all in sexual fun and I made out with an obviously cross-dressed guy. She was mad. Still, I don't know if it was because she looked like a woman or because I knew it was a guy. My defense was actually that I knew it was a guy so I wasn't kissing another girl. Whatever, it didn't work. It went from a really high to a really low moment. Needless to say, we never did that again. Damn, stupid me.

When she tells me she knows me more than anybody in the whole world I know she is referring to moments like that and maybe even insinuating she knows more but even so, based on my track record, I wouldn't bet on reading her reaction.

So, lastly, having considered your comment about basically if the shoe were on the other foot... and I must say also that I would have a hard time accepted my wife as a man. I can't see her that way and although that would seem the perfect answer for me, I don't want it.

ok, long enough,

Joanna
 

Offline aaajjj55

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Re: How can I educate my wife (without her knowing)?
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2017, 10:31:47 am »
Joanna

I did see your first reply to my last post and was about to reply when it 'disappeared' which was a shame as you made some very good points in there that didn't reappear in the final version.  It does look as if your feelings of dysphoria are perhaps a little deeper set than you were describing in the first version - no problem at all with that as, more than anything, it's important that you know yourself and are prepared to question yourself.

This community is a wonderful support, particularly for those of us who have to live our TG life in isolation.  However, as many of us start off by looking through the 'before and after' thread, it's very easy to believe that transition is, the answer to all our problems, it's also going to be a walk in the park and we're going to change from an average looking guy into our dream woman.  The reality, of course, is almost always very different as the 'significant others' and 'coming out of the closet' threads testify and we then have to find an equilibrium which enables us to live our life.  Yes, I may well be lying on my death bed regretting that I didn't pursue the dream but, equally, I may be lying there surrounded by my wife, kids & (hopefully) grandchildren feeling proud.  Of course, I may also be lying there looking fabulous thanks to HRT, FFS and GCS!  I honestly don't know which (although the 'fabulous' one is the least likely by a long way) and, of course, won't be in a position to report back as one tends to die on one's death bed!

Joking apart, you'll get as many opinions from this community as people giving them and what it's important for you to do is to continue to participate fully in these forums so that you understand yourself fully - where you lie on the TG spectrum, what (if anything) you want to do about it and the maximum price (in terms of what you'd be prepared to give up rather than dollars/pounds/euros) you'd be prepared to pay.  As far as your wife is concerned, if you're going to do much more than dream what might have been, she has a right to know.  It also mitigates the risk of major fallout if she finds your stash of clothes and other female items.

It's easy to say that, if I had my time over again, I'd do things differently but I'm really not sure that I'd be that sensible.  What I would definitely do, though, is package the confession very differently.  I did a typically male thing - just blurted everything out assuming she'd be fine with it.  What I would have liked to have done is to concentrate more on the struggles of living with GD and the possibility that it was caused by medication my mother may have taken during pregnancy; by gaining her understanding of the situation, she may have been more tolerant of the collateral activities.  Instead, it's a subject not ever to be discussed and this, combined with my unwillingness to risk losing everything we have achieved has effectively driven me back into the closet.

From your point of view, the fact that you have at least a couple of giveaway incidents during your marriage will in all probability reduce the probability of any revelations coming as a complete surprise to your wife.  Equally, by talking about it before the dysphoria has a chance to take hold may open the door for the two of you to see a therapist jointly and work towards a mutually acceptable solution - at the end of the day 'I'm struggling with my gender and want to do something about it, please will you help me' is far less destructive to a marriage than 'I've been crossdressing for years and have a secret stash of women's clothes, hope you don't mind'.

I hope that you soon find a solution that works for you and please keep us posted!

Offline Joanna2

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Re: How can I educate my wife (without her knowing)?
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2017, 03:39:25 am »
Joanna

I did see your first reply to my last post and was about to reply when it 'disappeared' which was a shame as you made some very good points in there that didn't reappear in the final version.  It does look as if your feelings of dysphoria are perhaps a little deeper set than you were describing in the first version - no problem at all with that as, more than anything, it's important that you know yourself and are prepared to question yourself.

This community is a wonderful support, particularly for those of us who have to live our TG life in isolation.  However, as many of us start off by looking through the 'before and after' thread, it's very easy to believe that transition is, the answer to all our problems, it's also going to be a walk in the park and we're going to change from an average looking guy into our dream woman.  The reality, of course, is almost always very different as the 'significant others' and 'coming out of the closet' threads testify and we then have to find an equilibrium which enables us to live our life.  Yes, I may well be lying on my death bed regretting that I didn't pursue the dream but, equally, I may be lying there surrounded by my wife, kids & (hopefully) grandchildren feeling proud.  Of course, I may also be lying there looking fabulous thanks to HRT, FFS and GCS!  I honestly don't know which (although the 'fabulous' one is the least likely by a long way) and, of course, won't be in a position to report back as one tends to die on one's death bed!

Joking apart, you'll get as many opinions from this community as people giving them and what it's important for you to do is to continue to participate fully in these forums so that you understand yourself fully - where you lie on the TG spectrum, what (if anything) you want to do about it and the maximum price (in terms of what you'd be prepared to give up rather than dollars/pounds/euros) you'd be prepared to pay.  As far as your wife is concerned, if you're going to do much more than dream what might have been, she has a right to know.  It also mitigates the risk of major fallout if she finds your stash of clothes and other female items.

It's easy to say that, if I had my time over again, I'd do things differently but I'm really not sure that I'd be that sensible.  What I would definitely do, though, is package the confession very differently.  I did a typically male thing - just blurted everything out assuming she'd be fine with it.  What I would have liked to have done is to concentrate more on the struggles of living with GD and the possibility that it was caused by medication my mother may have taken during pregnancy; by gaining her understanding of the situation, she may have been more tolerant of the collateral activities.  Instead, it's a subject not ever to be discussed and this, combined with my unwillingness to risk losing everything we have achieved has effectively driven me back into the closet.

From your point of view, the fact that you have at least a couple of giveaway incidents during your marriage will in all probability reduce the probability of any revelations coming as a complete surprise to your wife.  Equally, by talking about it before the dysphoria has a chance to take hold may open the door for the two of you to see a therapist jointly and work towards a mutually acceptable solution - at the end of the day 'I'm struggling with my gender and want to do something about it, please will you help me' is far less destructive to a marriage than 'I've been crossdressing for years and have a secret stash of women's clothes, hope you don't mind'.

I hope that you soon find a solution that works for you and please keep us posted!

Aah, you saw my first post. Sorry about that. There has been a few of those rewritten or just altogether deleted posts. Especially ones where I commit to something...lol. In that first post I mentioned some posts there that really stand out to me that I have read here, JeannettLW's story and dose of reality, Mikaela's (to me) fantasy moment and actually life, the other one I referred to where the woman describes after coming out and HRT, the feeling, the novelty, the drive, all seemed to dissipate (scary), and your post, of course, which is another memorable dose of reality for me.

SO, I also made the point (commitment) in that first post that if coming out meant all the novelty and sexual part of it was going to wear off like I had read in that other post, than I am not ready to turn in my 5" stilettos for pumps. I don't WANT to lose that excitement about it, that passion, the fantasy. And just the losing of the desire to even be a woman? Doubting everything? I said I am not ready to possibly destroy my life as I know it for something that may be better at the expense of losing both. Like a double or nothing gamble. 

I am sorry that things didn't work out for you but at least you know you aren't living a total lie now (and you can't get caught... I guess... unless she said to never dress again, which would be unfortunate). I read on another site, a post by a wife that said she thinks her husband has this sick fetish where he likes to dress as a woman and watches bi-sexual threeway porn with a wife, her cross-dressed husband, and another guy. In that quest for help, she said what can I do, I can't let this continue. I couldn't resist and I replied, "maybe his next wife will". (maybe my shortest reply ever, lol) The point is that it is naive and dangerous for her to assume she has the power to stamp out that nasty fetish and really to assume it is just that. (Maybe she should be grateful there is a wife in the porn video).

I wrote more here but I deleted that too. You know, it is all doubt and over-rationalization. Sometimes I read back and change and delete because it all seems to be bullshit justification to myself one way or the other. I just read my own stuff sometimes and I am like "Oh, shut the <not allowed> up"

Joanna

Offline aaajjj55

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Re: How can I educate my wife (without her knowing)?
« Reply #46 on: April 24, 2017, 01:12:39 am »
... unless she said to never dress again, which would be unfortunate

That was the ultimatum (well, to be exact, it was 'if you ever bring any more items of female clothing into the house, you're out' but, however it's phrased, the message was clear)!

Offline Paulette

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Re: How can I educate my wife (without her knowing)?
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2017, 10:07:04 am »
You can't, at least not easily.

You could try taking her to drag shows or seeing movies like The Birdcage. But eventually you'll have to talk.

First thing is to be fairly confident about what you want for yourself, for her, and for your relationship. Good luck! Most of us still haven't figured that out, or find that we change our minds from month to month.

Then gather your courage and talk to her. Be gentle. Be patient. Be kind. Keep in mind that you're asking her to not only revise her thinking about you, but about herself. Stop frequently and ask what she thinks and how she feels. Tell her how terrified of this conversation and of losing her you are. Tell her that you still love her.

Whatever you do, don't just confront her by suddenly appearing in your best dress and wig. Baby steps! Give her time to find out how she feels. Encourage her to talk about it. She has a lot to consider and adjust to.

O\Paulette