Topic: If you can say "I don't care what people think about me" this thread isn't for u

[Sophia Sage]

Some of my cis girl friends have long since given up trying to impress people.  It's so maddening that even without makeup, wearing just a sweat shirt and some pants, and a quick brush through their hair, no one ever misgenders them.

There's a real freedom to rolling out of bed, hair askew and makeup washed off, to make breakfast for your lover.  And there's no misgendering, no questions.  Women aren't always "on" -- because no one can be "on" all the time.  So what does it really take to elicit female gendering all the time?

I'll tell you what changed my world for the better.  It was facial feminization surgery and voice training.  When I nailed those two, passing became possible.  And with passing came self-confidence like I'd never felt before.

To this I'd also add facial hair removal, but yeah.  It's pretty basic.

Finding our voices is so, so important.  And so, so hard.  The other stuff, zapping and surgery, it just takes time and money; other people are still doing the work.  Voice, though, even with voice surgery (I'm still not impressed with the results overall) takes actual work.  Raising pitch and establishing good resonance is difficult enough, but then there's the matter of modulating our speaking patterns (being more "musical" and less "monotone") and then there's still the matter of learning what to say, and when, and why.   

[Shy]

Being early in my transition I sort of have to set aside the worry of what people think about me just to come out and challenge my fears and social conditioning. I think the further I get on with my transition the more I'll begin to care about passing or not.
There's only so much I can take on at one time. I have to look at my situation as it is now and trust that the future will take care of itself if lay good foundations. For me it's more of a gradual acceptance over a binary "I don't care/do care" argument that can only grow with experience, time and a little medical intervention.
One day I just want to wake up and not think about gender at all, then have that day turn into a week and that week into the rest of my life

Peace and love and all that good stuff,

Sadie

[HappyMoni]

Being early in my transition I sort of have to set aside the worry of what people think about me just to come out and challenge my fears and social conditioning. I think the further I get on with my transition the more I'll begin to care about passing or not.
There's only so much I can take on at one time. I have to look at my situation as it is now and trust that the future will take care of itself if lay good foundations. For me it's more of a gradual acceptance over a binary "I don't care/do care" argument that can only grow with experience, time and a little medical intervention.
One day I just want to wake up and not think about gender at all, then have that day turn into a week and that week into the rest of my life

Peace and love and all that good stuff,

Sadie

Sadie, that sounds like a wise approach. You are right, there is only so much to take on at one time. The not caring what people think is easier said than done  once you get a little further down the road. After you invest a lot of time and effort into presenting better, it can be disheartening to be mischaracterized by someone. I have times where I don't care. Then there are times it hits like a ton of bricks. I hope to evolve in physical appearance, but more importantly, like you said, evolve in the mental aspects as well. Good luck to you!
Moni

[LizK]

I try and not let people or things bother me when I am out, I don't know wether I pass necessarily or that people don't care but I don't usually get any hassle. It is a bit depressing to be getting looks after making such an effort. I try not to notice any of it and just go about my business. Sometimes if I let it bother me, it feels almost like it has a cumulative effect and if I keep detecting people staring at me, after awhile I start to doubt myself and begin to feel uncomfortable.

As my self confidence and acceptance has grown I am less inclined to look for people staring or even notice if they are.

But I am certainly not immune to the constant barrage of signals

[Gertrude]

I am an introvert and as such, I don't really need other peoples approval. When it comes to passing, others can take me or leave me as long as they aren't rude to me. I understand that introverts are relatively rare and it's far better to have and enjoy social connections. I suspect part of the reason I developed as an introvert is so much of my life I have had to solve all my problems myself so I never shared much of myself. Possibly I am an endangered species but that would be a good thing.

From what I've read, introverts make up around 40% of the population. Not endangered but not most either. I'm an introvert too, but can take people in limited doses. What happens is that I'll spend a lot of time alone at work and then I'll crave some interaction and shortly after I'll have had enough. I could never do sales or a job where I had to deal with people all the time. It would be mentally and emotionally draining . On the Myers Briggs inventory, I'm an ISTP.


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[rainecloude]

Wow so many interesting and honest perspectives. I love it!

For me personally since the age of 13 I have presented outwardly and openly as a gay male so for me I had already accepted a long time ago that I was going to be on the "outside". When I transitioned to transitioning it was surprisingly a painless process because I had already surrounded myself with LGBT+ positive people.

That being said I had no real understanding that as a gay male I was able to fly under the radar and present as a cis, straight, white male if I had to. Now as a trans woman there have been so many times in which I think maybe I should pack some male clothes in my bag just in case I don't pass.

Honestly my greatest anxiety does not come from judgement or from awkward encounters. It comes from a genuine fear of being in physical danger. As a man I could lower my voice and change my stance to protect myself and now there's not hiding my vulnerabilities.

Anyways just sharing my thoughts. Much love <3

[Lady Lisandra]

I think wanting to be considered cis if completely fine. I've been passing for some time now, and I got rid of most of my fears by telling myself that X thing happens even to cis girls. At first I was afraid of showing my wide, muscular shoulders, but I'm comfortable with doing it now. My muscle mass has considerably reduced, but I still have wide, toned shoulders. And that's fine, because there are cid women with wide and muscular shoulders.

After some time as full time female, I realized I didn't care about how people saw me, I was happy with being not male, or at least not the stereotypical macho I acted like before. Most of the time people treat me as a woman, but there are exceptions. Even some classmates that knew me before still treat me as a male. I didn't bother explaining them about my transition, and I'm fine with them caling me by my old name, even tough I love my new one. I even enjoy when people can't tell wheather I'm a male or female. I think I have the "what other think" part covered.

That doesn't mean I hide the fact that I'm trans. I just don't yell it all the time. Unless you ask, I won't say anything. Not because I'm ashamed, or afraid of what they think of me, but because it's not the most important thing about me. It doesn't define me completely.

I don't want to talk about trans stuff all the day, nor I want to be treated specially just because I'm trans. You don't need to say I have ovaries just because I don't like my genitals. I don't mind if people I trust make jokes about that, actually I make a lot of them.

Being called trans is fine for me, as it also is being trated as a completely normal cis girl. I just don't want the fact that I'm trans to be the most trascendental thing of my life. The word trans is not in my presentation card, and if I ever become famous I'd hate that "trans" was writen before "artist" or "musician" in my wikipedia page.

[Cindy]

It has been a while since I've read this thread and I have to admit I was hurt.

Hurt deeply.

Quote from Kelly
 I live in the same city as Cindy, but there's probably about a 20 year difference in our ages. She appears as a fairly normal older woman.

Since when have I been normal sweetheart!
(must catch up if you are back in Adelaide Hon)

I was also interested in Elizabeth's comments as we caught up for coffee yesterday and she has changed so much over the time that I have known her that there is no doubt in my eyes that she is 'just another woman', well maybe a rather wonderful one as is Kelly BTW

Of course, we do not see the changes, we see our past, our mirror image. That is how our brains, all human brains are programmed.

Why do we look at self portraits with such interest?
An artist produces a feeling of a representation. When we look at a self portrait of an artist we see how much of that feeling and our perception of it is different (to theirs).
Let me expand.

Have someone draw a cartoon of you.

Cartoonist emphasise features and usually to the grotesque. "I don't look like that!." Have someone paint a portrait or take a candid photo portrait - "I don't look like that"!
The results say you do to others.

I read so many FFS posts where people want changes that for them are of critical importance and I struggle to see why. Sure the surgeons will agree and their clinics will often suggest additional procedures to improve the look. And yes the results can be stunning and thankfully usually are - but do you look like a normal woman or an idealised sculpture of one? As long as you are happy great but if you are unhappy where do you go? Usually it then involves the blame game and the image of the cartoonist seems to be prevalent in your mind and maybe not the image of how you look in life.

Let us expand the discussion. The emphasis seems to be, as ever, on 'passing',  and as a fairly weird older woman I've never been sure what that means and to explain that I want you to think about something.

Many of you may have had children. As a parent did any of you look at your much loved child and think - they need surgery to pass? No I don't mean corrective surgery for bat-ears or clefts or whatever.  Facial reconstruction so your daughter would 'pass better'. "My daughter pass!!! But she is female." Sure and no doubt lovely, and she is. She is the most lovely child of yours, she is perfect.

No she isn't.

There are people who are more lovely. There are people who have a better nose, forehead, lip, cheek. Oh you know where I'm at.

You have a son. He, no doubt is gorgeous. A bundle of love and work and a child. Doesn't look too manly though. Not sure if he will pass. "What" My son. He is a guy, of course he passes. Ye but he doesn't look like Brad, his chin could be more square and well he looks - well you know; but he is playing footy and will get a few scars and he's a nice lad.

Maybe he isn't.

Think about those paragraphs.

[kelly_aus]

Quote from Kelly
 I live in the same city as Cindy, but there's probably about a 20 year difference in our ages. She appears as a fairly normal older woman.

Since when have I been normal sweetheart!
(must catch up if you are back in Adelaide Hon)

I meant "normal" in looks.. Unlike me, who is obviously trans.

[HappyMoni]

If it helps Cindy, I have always thought of you as normally abnormal. I mean look at what time you posted that last post, it's like you're on the other side of the world  or something. Pretty weird!

I recently have been catching a glance in the mirror and my impression is more of seeing a female. With rare exceptions, I think it is a process we go through to see who we think we are in that mirror. It doesn't happen all at once obviously. We present as one gender and then switch. How can there not be an adjustment? Of course there is. But, like you say, when we don't adjust, when we aren't ever self accepting, it is perhaps the mental aspect that is the issue, not the physical.
Moni

[iskra]

I love this topic because passing is everything to me, or else no dice on "transgender issues" <edit>. how much does hrt  alone move the needle for facial feminization for those who have undergone it?

[MikaelaA]

I love this topic because passing is everything to me, or else no dice on "transgender issues" <edit>. how much does hrt  alone move the needle for facial feminization for those who have undergone it?

This is one of those, your mileage may vary (YMMV), situations.  I just started my HRT transition a little less than 4 months ago.  The first 2 months was anti-androgen only and have only been on estradiol for 6 weeks.  Here are my before and 3 month HRT pics for comparison.  I have done nothing else except for HRT.

Before HRT




After 3 Months HRT

[iskra]

yes I can see the effect of the hrt in a sort of softening  of your festures.i expect this will continue apace  if you stay on them, or such is my guess.  you'll probably look quite feminine soon. that estrogen therapy really works doesnt it. thanks for sharing your pic.

[Oldandcreaky]

Passing matters to me. I transitioned more than 30 years ago and spent the first decade in a situation where I trusted people wouldn't betray my confidence in them. They did and it became common knowledge. I felt I had to work twice as hard to be tolerated. I did work twice as hard and it was twice as hard. Then I spent a couple decades where people received me as I am and working twice as hard, which had become my new normal, brought something far more than acceptance: I was celebrated.

[Erika_]

Passing is really important to me, I've been attacked in the past for being trans and I don't want a repeat of that.

[ChrissyRyan]

I cannot say yet that I do not care at all what people think but I can tolerate the fewer and still noticed snarky remarks and smirks more than ever.

Chrissy

[Zumbagirl]

Don't get me wrong, part of me says, "I am who I am, screw you if you don't like it." I have both emotions sometimes at the same time.

   Does anyone else have that insecurity in being seen as a trans person (I know, dumb question.) I am a minority in one sense, I am an Atheist, and that is a status as a minority that doesn't bother me at all. So maybe my internalized, lifelong trans shame and fear are still working on my head when it comes to being seen by strangers as part of the trans minority. Setting aside safety concerns and my desire to be just another woman, does this desire to be seen as cis seem unhealthy? Am I only at peace if I overcome this more completely?
   Not sure if this is a topic that is interesting to others. If not consider it a rant. I am curious to know about comfort levels and being seen as trans vrs cis. Are there different ways to be at peace with this?
Moni

That insecurity feeling is in all of us. Heck I transitioned over 20 years ago and from time to time though not really that much anymore I could feel insecure when standing in line in front of an ordinary woman. I think with greater and greater life experience this problem fades away and disappears. It was never a body issue for me it was someone who was 25 standing in front who had 25 years experience as a female compared to my, at the time, say 5 years. Now, things are different. I have decades of experience. The confidence and comfort things are not really an issue.

But I will say this about myself I didn't do all that I did so that I could be that special "transgender" friend for someone. I wanted to correct a cruel mistake that was foisted on me at birth and that's where I am in the spectrum. All of my friends are just ordinary females most with families and careers. That's where  I live. That's where I want to live.

Just be patient. You can't get decades of lived experience until you've lived decades of time in your new world. It will all come eventually.

[Rayna]

That insecurity feeling is in all of us. Heck I transitioned over 20 years ago and from time to time though not really that much anymore I could feel insecure when standing in line in front of an ordinary woman. I think with greater and greater life experience this problem fades away and disappears. It was never a body issue for me it was someone who was 25 standing in front who had 25 years experience as a female compared to my, at the time, say 5 years. Now, things are different. I have decades of experience. The confidence and comfort things are not really an issue.

But I will say this about myself I didn't do all that I did so that I could be that special "transgender" friend for someone. I wanted to correct a cruel mistake that was foisted on me at birth and that's where I am in the spectrum. All of my friends are just ordinary females most with families and careers. That's where  I live. That's where I want to live.

Just be patient. You can't get decades of lived experience until you've lived decades of time in your new world. It will all come eventually.

Thank you, that is an useful perspective. Our experience living in a gender role plays a big part in how we are seen by others. There are many tiny subconscious cues that people unconsciously use to gender others. I wish it didn't matter, but we all do it, all the time.

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[Pammie]

That insecurity feeling is in all of us. Heck I transitioned over 20 years ago and from time to time though not really that much anymore I could feel insecure when standing in line in front of an ordinary woman. I think with greater and greater life experience this problem fades away and disappears. It was never a body issue for me it was someone who was 25 standing in front who had 25 years experience as a female compared to my, at the time, say 5 years. Now, things are different. I have decades of experience. The confidence and comfort things are not really an issue.

But I will say this about myself I didn't do all that I did so that I could be that special "transgender" friend for someone. I wanted to correct a cruel mistake that was foisted on me at birth and that's where I am in the spectrum. All of my friends are just ordinary females most with families and careers. That's where  I live. That's where I want to live.

Just be patient. You can't get decades of lived experience until you've lived decades of time in your new world. It will all come eventually.

This correlates completely with my journey so far - i’m only 3 years in but I feel a lot more confident already yet at the same time i’m well aware that the journey goes on and i’m a long way from the finished article!
X


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