Author Topic: Voice, how to use the "apple" approach, and tone vs. note  (Read 591 times)

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Offline Alicia_Alia

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Voice, how to use the "apple" approach, and tone vs. note
« on: July 31, 2017, 03:54:36 pm »
Hello, Sisters. I'm Alicia. I used to be known as Jessica Williams. I married a trans guy and I decided to change my name again. I'm 70, a fairly well-known retired jazz pianist, now just a musician and a housewife. I transitioned socially in 1967 and surgically in 1976 . . . Dr Terrence Malloy in Philadelphia. I had FFS in 2000 with Dr Douglas Ousterhout, and a bunch of other operations for feminization.

I wanted to comment on a big issue: How to achieve a feminine voice, and how to create a perfect female voice by using various techniques, some including the elusive "adam's apple" technique, something I was able to achieve and use on a regular basis.

Thank you for having me around!

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Voice, how to use the "apple" approach, and tone vs. note
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2017, 03:59:40 pm »
Welcome! Tell us more?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk







Online Dena

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Re: Voice, how to use the "apple" approach, and tone vs. note
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2017, 04:08:00 pm »
Welcome to Susan's Place. It's always good to have experienced members on the forums as many leave the site after finishing their transition. I have been covering the voice forums as I originally came here for voice surgery but an additional opinion would help the members with their voice issues. I am only a little younger than you and I had my surgery in 1982 so I am another old timer. To get you started, the voice forum is located here. I hope to see some posts from you soon.

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Re: Voice, how to use the "apple" approach, and tone vs. note
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2017, 04:17:37 pm »
Welcome Alicia! You are clearly one of the pioneers.

Voice is very interesting. We know a lot about voice issues from the MtF perspective, and very little about the issues surrounding FtM transition because there are far fewer of us and it is accepted that all FtMs want is a lowering of voice, but that does appear to come with a price which is not yet effectively addressed. That's why I've got an appointment with a speech pathologist who has some FtM experience.

Although I understand that FtM voice is not your area of interest  ;), I still look forward to learning about your experiences in this field.

Offline Alicia_Alia

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Re: Voice, how to use the "apple" approach, and tone vs. note
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2017, 05:25:30 pm »
I am still trying to figure out how to reply to other posts. I'll get it. I survived Facebook!
Here is a really great place to start, with a few diagrams.

http://lena.kiev.ua/voice/

And here is a demonstration, by a very sweet girl on YouTube:



I'm very interested in how the voice that we hear coming out of our mouths every day can affect our mood, our relationships, our ability to be "conspiratorial" with other woman in tone and texture, our reflex to raise our pitch and soften our timbre when we speak to men, and, most importantly, how the gender clues that we hear from ourselves speaking change our reality, perhaps even our "personality".

It has changed my life in many ways. My old voice was female, but had little joy in it, lacking a good range, being "dark and flat". I was a jazz musician. Dark and flat!

I became annoyed when I heard myself on NPR. A whole hour with Terry Gross. OMG! That was 30 years ago, but it sparked a passion in me: to make myself the woman I had always wished to be. I was a pianist. Now I am a regular girl, a married woman, a housewife, a dedicated partner, a good cook, on and on. Who am I in my new role? Who can I become without spending a fortune?!

I think that voice is the Number ONE single most telling gender cue. We all know about brow ridges and pheltrum length. Visuals are easy to find for many, but the human voice is elusive and hard to quantify. Imagine a man bent over fixing a drain under your sink. You enter the room and speak, but he cannot see you. How will he gender you, the noises you make, the way you talk, walk, move, smell, your vibe? I think that Voice, not Eyes, are the Window of the Soul. The sounds we make tell other hominids who we are . . . and what.

Many of us work to make the gender divide less divided, and I think that is wonderful. It takes a terrible burden off all of our children well into the future. But there are also those of us who are stealth, and we remain silent and safe. It's a choice. After 50 years as a pianist who was also an activist every time I played, me and my husband needed a respite! We are enjoying a little peace and quiet.

I want to let others know what I've learned about Voice. I also would like to hear what others say about it. And maybe I'll make a friend or two.

Now, I must figure out how to post an answer to individual posts.





Offline V M

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Re: Voice, how to use the "apple" approach, and tone vs. note
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2017, 05:41:09 pm »
Hi Alicia  :icon_wave:

Welcome to Susan's Place  :)  Glad to have you here, join on in the fun

Hugs

V M
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS

 
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Offline Steph Eigen

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Re: Voice, how to use the "apple" approach, and tone vs. note
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2017, 09:32:14 pm »
Alicia,
What an delight and honor to welcome you to Susan's.org.  I know your work very well; we are fortunate to have one of the giants of piano jazz join us.

Thank you for your informative post on voice training.

I hope you will allow me to post the link to your website so other members who are not familiar with your work can familiarize themselves.

Steph

Online Laurie

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Re: Voice, how to use the "apple" approach, and tone vs. note
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2017, 10:06:40 pm »
Hi Alicia,

 I'm Laurie Please let me welcome you to Susan's Place in my self appointed unofficial  capacity. ((Hug)) Welcome to Susan's Place. Come on in Here try this divan, comfy? It Dena's  No, no go ahead an relax she won't mind, (well, not much anyway) I think she busy moderating or something.  Glad to have you here and thank you for the offer to help us with our voices. You wouldn't happen to tutor typing would you? No? Dratz.

  You mentioned you wanted to reply to an individual post. One of the easies ways is to click the quote button just above the post to the right. That will copy a post into the dialogue box where you can edit out the parts that you don't want and leave the lines you do want to reply to. Be sure to leave the quote command text at the top and bottom of the post and  start your reply after the bottom quote command. Then just hit post or preview if you would like to see it before you post.

 Hope that helps

 Hugs,
   Laurie

Offline Janes Groove

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Re: Voice, how to use the "apple" approach, and tone vs. note
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2017, 10:19:35 pm »
Welcome to the site Alicia. 



I'm very interested in how the voice that we hear coming out of our mouths every day can affect our mood, our relationships, our ability to be "conspiratorial" with other woman in tone and texture, our reflex to raise our pitch and soften our timbre when we speak to men, and, most importantly, how the gender clues that we hear from ourselves speaking change our reality, perhaps even our "personality".

I agree with this.  When I was first struggling with female voice I soon came to realize that this a great way to tune into my feminine nature.  Not just a way to hide my male voice and make passing easier but a genuine path to expressing and discovering my own femininity and defining my personality as a woman.  It's very powerful. 

I was shopping in a thrift store on senior Tuesday once last fall and there were quite a few women in the women's clothes section taking advantage of 50% off.  I remember just listening to the sound of women's voices and really hearing and realizing for the first time that women don't really talk to each other.  They sing to each other.  It was a perfect symphony of women's voices with such subtle melodies in a very mundane setting.



Assigned Male at Birth - 1958
Came out as Gay  1994
Came out, started living full time - Thanksgiving 2015
Started HRT - 5-27-2016

Estrogen HRT = the surprising arrival of a rainbow within me.

Offline Alicia_Alia

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Re: Voice, how to use the "apple" approach, and tone vs. note
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 03:04:59 pm »
Hi Alicia,

 I'm Laurie Please let me welcome you to Susan's Place in my self appointed unofficial  capacity. ((Hug)) Welcome to Susan's Place. Come on in Here try this divan, comfy? It Dena's  No, no go ahead an relax she won't mind, (well, not much anyway) I think she busy moderating or something.  Glad to have you here and thank you for the offer to help us with our voices. You wouldn't happen to tutor typing would you? No? Dratz.

  You mentioned you wanted to reply to an individual post. One of the easies ways is to click the quote button just above the post to the right. That will copy a post into the dialogue box where you can edit out the parts that you don't want and leave the lines you do want to reply to. Be sure to leave the quote command text at the top and bottom of the post and  start your reply after the bottom quote command. Then just hit post or preview if you would like to see it before you post.

 Hope that helps

 Hugs,
   Laurie

It helps immensely, Laurie. And as for my writing style, I always miss a few key words when I post on social media. I think it's the pressure of knowing I'll mess up. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Thank you for commenting on my writing. I intend to write a series of Novellas, like the old sci-fi authors did, and release my Tome one chapter at a time. Where I will find the strength and stomach for this, I have no idea. We each have ways to deal with our pasts. It will be, for me, like re-writing War and Peace again, without the War part. When I changed the way I looked a things, things changed!!!

My site is at
http://www.jessicawilliams.com

If you ever wish to call me, or if I can do anything to help serve, please let me know. Send me an email with your ph# and I'll call you back when I can. I'm really getting good at girl-talk.

I would love to talk to you.

Alicia
(JW)

Offline Alicia_Alia

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Re: Voice, how to use the "apple" approach, and tone vs. note
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2017, 03:13:26 pm »
Welcome to the site Alicia. 


I agree with this.  When I was first struggling with female voice I soon came to realize that this a great way to tune into my feminine nature.  Not just a way to hide my male voice and make passing easier but a genuine path to expressing and discovering my own femininity and defining my personality as a woman.  It's very powerful. 

I was shopping in a thrift store on senior Tuesday once last fall and there were quite a few women in the women's clothes section taking advantage of 50% off.  I remember just listening to the sound of women's voices and really hearing and realizing for the first time that women don't really talk to each other.  They sing to each other.  It was a perfect symphony of women's voices with such subtle melodies in a very mundane setting.
---
Thank you, Janes.
When I hear women walking down the street or talking in a food store, or sitting in Starbucks getting out of the heat to chill and relax, there is a different song for each "occasion". When I talk to my husband, my femininity reinforces his masculinity, and his voice drops. Very deep, Vin Diesel deep.

I also found that I could not achieve this miracle without the "up and back" approach to my new voice.

http://www.jessicawilliams.com

You have my site, and if you wish to call or anything for any reason, email me there.

I need friends. We all do.

Happiness
Alicia
(JW)