Author Topic: Backlash as transgender weightlifter qualifies for Commonwealth Games  (Read 1666 times)

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MaryT

Re: Backlash as transgender weightlifter qualifies for Commonwealth Games
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2017, 11:15:06 am »
The Commonwealth Games are about more than who wins and loses.  They are an embodiment of British spirit and British values.  They are about doing one's best on the field and off, and reuniting through sport a once mighty Empire.

Those were the days.  I have a pang for that amateur idealism.  Nearly all top athletes are professionals, nowadays, though.  If it was ever really true that it was not about winning and losing, it is no longer so.

Being mentally and politically equal is not the same as being physically identical.  Trans women, especially those who transitioned in adulthood, are still not physically identical to cis women.  For example, I wish that SRS would enable us to conceive and have babies, but wishin' don't make it so.

I am in favour of trans women competing against cis women.  However, cis women athletes who don't like the idea have reasonable arguments.  Until an adult male skeleton is proven to have no advantage in strength sports, many cis women are not going to feel that they are on an even playing field.  There is no war between cis people and trans people.  Trans people do not have a duty to unite on every issue that affects them.

rmaddy

Re: Backlash as transgender weightlifter qualifies for Commonwealth Games
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2017, 08:49:13 pm »
And the fact that this is settled law, for decades, makes no difference?

MaryT

Re: Backlash as transgender weightlifter qualifies for Commonwealth Games
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2017, 10:16:50 am »
And the fact that this is settled law, for decades, makes no difference?

Clearly the law, as well as Olympic committee rules, make a difference.  That is why Laurel Hubbard has been allowed to compete.  I'm glad that she has been allowed to compete.  However, I think that those who think otherwise have made reasonable arguments that have not been fully countered.

I don't think that there is such a thing as settled law.  As long as some people think that they are unfair, laws and rules will be debated and sometimes changed.  Trans people don't always have to be on the side of trans athletes in this debate.  All people should be on the side they they regard as the true and just side.  Clearly, not all trans people agree on which side that is, and that's okay.


Offline Deborah

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Re: Backlash as transgender weightlifter qualifies for Commonwealth Games
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2017, 02:37:53 pm »
Established law simply defines what is legal or illegal.  It doesn’t necessarily establish right over wrong or moral over immoral.

All one needs to do is look at some examples such as the laws that once established slavery as legal in the United States or many laws in repressive countries today.


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Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

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rmaddy

Re: Backlash as transgender weightlifter qualifies for Commonwealth Games
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2017, 11:09:48 pm »
Established law simply defines what is legal or illegal.  It doesn’t necessarily establish right over wrong or moral over immoral.

All one needs to do is look at some examples such as the laws that once established slavery as legal in the United States or many laws in repressive countries today.


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Well yes, but I call BS on the comparison to slavery or repression.

Offline amandam

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Re: Backlash as transgender weightlifter qualifies for Commonwealth Games
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2017, 12:23:45 am »
Bone density and tendon strength are related because both are dependent on the stress put upon them by the muscles.  If one exercises, particularly with weights but also with running, the bones will become denser and the tendons stronger to compensate for the stress induced by the working muscles.  If the muscles get weaker or one becomes sedentary both bones and tendons will get weaker over time.

Bear with me here, I'm not a doctor, just wondering something. If a man has larger bones, he probably has larger tendon connections to those bones. If so, those connections do not shrink even if tendons atrophy during transition. If "she" then trains again, isn't the development of those tendons, because of the associated tendon to bone connection, superior to cis females? Would it be the same case with tendon to muscle connections? The connections are the same size as always so development can be superior?  Or would the actual tendon to bone and tendon to muscle connections reduce in size as well?


Offline Deborah

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Re: Backlash as transgender weightlifter qualifies for Commonwealth Games
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2017, 02:35:22 am »
Bear with me here, I'm not a doctor, just wondering something. If a man has larger bones, he probably has larger tendon connections to those bones. If so, those connections do not shrink even if tendons atrophy during transition. If "she" then trains again, isn't the development of those tendons, because of the associated tendon to bone connection, superior to cis females? Would it be the same case with tendon to muscle connections? The connections are the same size as always so development can be superior?  Or would the actual tendon to bone and tendon to muscle connections reduce in size as well?
I’m not sure that the tendon to bone connections are going to make a big difference except maybe in providing resistance to injury. 

Strength itself is dependent on the nervous system’s ability to recruit increasing numbers of muscle fibers to contract together to produce force as well as each individual muscle fiber’s contractile strength and ability to store fuel and quickly regenerate ATP after each contraction.  All of these things improve with training.  It also depends on the distribution of type 1, 2A, and 2B muscle fibers in any given muscle.  This is largely genetic but training has some effect.  The tendon itself connects the muscle fiber bundles to the bone allowing for the lever action around a joint but doesn’t provide any contractile force of its own.


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Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired

MaryT

Re: Backlash as transgender weightlifter qualifies for Commonwealth Games
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2017, 12:23:10 pm »
Heavy exercise causes the thickening of bones as well as muscle growth.  There must be a reason that the body has evolved in that way, so the thickened bones must provide some advantage when physical stress is involved.  Laurel Hubbard's competitors may be concerned that she not only has the skeleton of an adult male, but the skeleton of an adult male weightlifting champion to boot.

Like I said, I am glad that she is competing but I understand the concerns about fairness.

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