Author Topic: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin  (Read 1495 times)

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Offline judithlynn

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The Anglican Church in Australia (Sydney Diocese) for the recent Synod has produced a report arguing that supporting transitioning is a sin:

See: https://www.sds.asn.au/sites/default/files/Gender%20Identity.Report2017.FINAL.v2.pdf

Anglican Church Diosese of Sydney

The Church report states that:-
The human person is a psychosomatic unity, where body and soul come into being at the same time and, in this life and the next, exist together. Embodiment is integral to human identity, and biological sex is a fundamental aspect of embodiment. Preserving the integrity of body and soul, and honouring and protecting the biologically-sexed body that God has given are necessary for human flourishing.

The binary distinctions of male and female are to be embraced and upheld in the lives of Christian men and women respectively, and expressed in culturally appropriate ways that conform to Scripture.

However, Churches, schools, and other Anglican organisations are to be places where all people, including those who experience gender identity issues and incongruence, are welcomed, loved and supported and helped to live in obedience to Christ.

Practical love of those experiencing gender identity issues and incongruence entails:
a) faithfulness to the teaching of the Bible
b) compassion, and active love, care, and support
c) rejection of all bullying, ridicule, mistreatment, and abuse of gender non-conforming people
d) evidence-based pathways for treatment, which are consistent with Scripture,
e)  ensuring that churches and organisations are adequately informed about gender identity issues and incongruence, and the relevant teaching of the Bible

For those experiencing gender incongruence
You are made in the image of God and you will find your identity in Christ. Therefore, we encourage you:
(a) to seek treatment options that aim for the integrity of psycho-somatic unity (your birth sex);
(b) to seek regular Christian fellowship;
(c) to share your struggles with some mature Christian people so you can receive Christian compassion and support, as well as accountability and encouragement;
(d) to know that while gender dysphoria may be a lifelong battle for you, nothing can separate you from the love of God in Christ Jesus, and God will be patient with you, and his grace will sustain you; and
(e) to fix your eyes on Jesus and look forward to wholeness and relief of suffering in the new creation.

The 47 page report to Members of the church goes onto say that:
The current trend in treatment is to ‘transition’ or change the person’s appearance and real lived experience (RLE)—socially, hormonally, and surgically—to that of their felt gender identity.

Yet such an approach is at odds with God’s sovereign purpose in creating us as sexed, embodied beings with psychosomatic unity, whose bodies will be perfected in the new creation, and who are now to serve God and his world with our bodies, in gendered relationships, even while we are subjected to the groaning and limitations of this present age. The experience of felt incongruence between the objective givenness of our sexed bodies and subjective gender identity belongs to the groaning of this creation as it waits for the return of Christ and the new creation (Rom. 8:20–23).

In this way, the current trend in treatment offered by healthcare professionals, and promoted by transgender activists, creates additional strains on those with gender identity issues, as it promises a resolution of this tension that is at odds with God’s purposes, and offers false hope, as biological sex cannot be changed.

Moreover, the Bible addresses some practices involved in gender transitioning. Cross-gender dressing and behaviour, and blurring the distinctions between male and female are condemned in both Old and New Testaments (Deut. 22:5; 1 Cor. 6:9; 11:4–15). Presenting oneself in public as the opposite sex necessarily involves disguise and falsehood (viz; the intention to “pass” as the opposite sex) which are likewise condemned (Lev. 19:11; Eph. 4:25; Col. 3:9). Wilfully depriving one’s spouse of their conjugal rights (e.g., as a consequence of male-to-female cross-hormone therapy in an otherwise healthy body, or in the mistaken belief it is ‘same-sex sexual activity’) is also sin (1 Cor. 7:3–5; Heb. 13:4). Sexual relations between people of the same biological sex is same-sex sexual activity—even if those involved regard themselves, and are legally regarded, to be of opposing gender—and is therefore sinful (e.g., Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Rom. 1:26–27; 1 Cor. 6:9–10; 1 Tim. 1:10)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 08:01:34 pm by stephaniec »
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Offline judithlynn

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 07:48:11 pm »
Dr David Ould, one of the authors of the Anglican Church report has a Blog site, further explaining his teachings and why he supports the view in his report.

Interestingly he has asked for comments:

http://davidould.net/getting-across-the-trans-issue-1-words-and-worldviews/
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Offline ChrissyRyan

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2018, 08:08:29 pm »
Thank you for both posts relating to gender transitioning.

If you would have access to their position on gay, lesbian, and bi, as compared to hetero sexuality and can post that link, that would be appreciated.  It would interesting to see their stance on sexuality also.


Chrissy
Always be kinder than needed.  Be tender to others.  You are as beautiful as the thoughts you think and the words that your speak.   Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding.  Knowledge and action shown without love is not impressive.  If you look for the good in people you will find it. Healthy relationships are so important to good living.

Good living, joy, unity, love, and happiness can come from following these practices: Never let selfishness or conceit motivate you.  Regard others as more important than yourself.  Do not limit attention to only your interests, but include the interests of others

It is not usually about how fast you transition, it is about how well you transition.  

Offline Deborah

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 09:10:16 pm »
His words are just more stupidity from the Church and reduces us to nothing more than an ideology.  In effect, he denies us our humanity. 

He says this is all something new; something that didn’t exist before.  We know that is simply a denial of reality; a common practice of his brand of Christianity.

If he were to be honest he would simply admit the truth; that the Church with its declining influence has lost the ability to shut us up and crush us into obscurity.   There can be no conversation that begins on a foundation of deception.


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Offline Devlyn

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 09:16:32 pm »
Mr. Ould says that the "new vocabulary is shaping the reality" when it's clear the opposite is true.
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Offline stephaniec

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Offline Deborah

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 09:49:45 pm »
You can boil both of his blog posts down to this. 

Even though dysphoria is real, it is a result of the fall of creation described in the Book of Genesis and is in turn contrary to God’s creation.  Therefore treating it with any sort of gender change is a sin.  The afflicted person must just live with it and seek solice in the Church.

Been there and done that.  It doesn’t work.


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Offline itsApril

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2018, 12:37:50 pm »

. . . we are subjected to the groaning and limitations of this present age. The experience of felt incongruence between the objective givenness of our sexed bodies and subjective gender identity belongs to the groaning of this creation as it waits for the return of Christ and the new creation (Rom. 8:20–23).


So the good Doctor's recommendation is that we just sit here and "groan" and hope to feel better when Jesus comes back . . .
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Offline Deborah

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2018, 02:20:51 pm »
So the good Doctor's recommendation is that we just sit here and "groan" and hope to feel better when Jesus comes back . . .
Too bad he didn’t tell Henry VIII the same thing.  Then there would have never been an English Reformation.


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Offline big kim

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2018, 03:14:15 pm »
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Eaten a bacon sandwich Doc? That's you ****** then!

Offline AnneK

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2018, 03:20:48 pm »
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Eaten a bacon sandwich Doc? That's you ****** then!

I'm currently reading that "Mistakes of Moses" that was mentioned in another thread.  Perhaps that Dr. should read it and (dare I say it?) learn from it.
I'm a 66 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

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Offline AnamethatstartswithE

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2018, 03:25:54 pm »
Too bad he didn’t tell Henry VIII the same thing.  Then there would have never been an English Reformation.


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To be fair that is what the Catholic Church told Henry viii, hence the English reformation.

It’s very easy to tell someone else they need to just put up with pain, a lot different when it’s you. I think the thinking here is what’s a lifetime of anxiety and depression compared to an eternity of heaven. But you could use that same logic to say that no one should wear glasses.
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Offline LadyGreen

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2018, 03:36:38 am »
I'm so tired of these igorant bigots trying to push their <nonsense> on my country, my people deserve better than the bullying and lies spread by these idiots.

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Offline RoryL

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2018, 06:18:20 pm »
From my past history as an Episcopalian in the USA, I'm familiar with Ould. He's long aligned himself with the schismatic conservative Anglicans who've been majorly butthurt since the Episcopal Church ordained a non-celibate gay bishop, The Rt. Rev. V. Gene Robinson, in 2003.

After a bit of research, the Sydney Diocese appears to be a bit of an odd outlier within the Anglican Church of Australia. Unlike the other Dioceses which are more Anglo-Catholic, Sydney overall tends toward being 'low church' and evangelical. They loudly oppose the ordination of women, gays, lesbians, & transgender people. I'm not surprised that Ould finds a comfy home among them to spew his hateful & exclusionary "theology". The other dioceses of the Australian Church look to be a mixed bag when it comes to their positions on LGBT people. There are dioceses and congregations with serving transgender clergy.

The Sydney Diocese leads the charge against LGBT people in the Anglican Church of Australia. The diocese has aligned itself with many of the most conservative and schismatic elements of the Anglican Communion, including groups that the Communion does not itself recognize as members. I suspect as time marches on their irrelevance, but not their influence, will increase.
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Offline Moonflower

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2018, 08:29:21 pm »
The Church report states that:-
The human person is a psychosomatic unity, where body and soul come into being at the same time and, in this life and the next, exist together. Embodiment is integral to human identity, and biological sex is a fundamental aspect of embodiment. Preserving the integrity of body and soul, and honouring and protecting the biologically-sexed body that God has given are necessary for human flourishing.

The binary distinctions of male and female are to be embraced and upheld in the lives of Christian men and women respectively, and expressed in culturally appropriate ways that conform to Scripture.

How can this report overlook intersex people? Where is the author's credibility?

Quote

However, Churches, schools, and other Anglican organisations are to be places where all people, including those who experience gender identity issues and incongruence, are welcomed, loved and supported and helped to live in obedience to Christ...

For those experiencing gender incongruence
You are made in the image of God and you will find your identity in Christ. Therefore, we encourage you:
(a) to seek treatment options that aim for the integrity of psycho-somatic unity (your birth sex);

As one who deliberately chose each church that I joined, I am familiar with the lip service expressed here, and the reality of a condescending, superior attitude when such a statement is addressed to a specific (errant) population. How can they dictate a person's birth sex without losing credibility? What trans person would actually feel "welcomed, loved and supported" in such a church that denies the truth of one's birth gender?
...
Quote

 biological sex cannot be changed.
...
Presenting oneself in public as the opposite sex necessarily involves disguise and falsehood (viz; the intention to “pass” as the opposite sex) which are likewise condemned (Lev. 19:11; Eph. 4:25; Col. 3:9).
In perfect agreement! Trans people transition into their true selves! Trying to fit into their role that was assigned at birth was the "gateway drug" that resulted in "disguise and falsehood."

<edited to fix formatting errors >
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Offline Linde

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2018, 09:50:46 pm »

How can this report overlook intersex people? Where is the author's credibility?
 

<edited to fix formatting errors >
This is exactly it!  People like are not even existing for them (for Trump not either).  Reading things like this, i start to feel more and more like an alien!  Almost like as if we missed the spaceship that took ET home, and now we are stuck here on earth!


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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2018, 03:55:24 am »
Well...religion and scientific facts do not mesh well.

Offline Nina

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2018, 05:21:06 am »
If I’m not mistaken, but Australia isn’t from what I’ve seen on tv as being LGBT accepting? Is gay marriage even allowed there?
I ask because the Anglican Church is quite the opposite in Canada...not only accepting of LGBT, but there are even LG ministers.
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Offline Nicole70

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2018, 05:30:44 am »
If I’m not mistaken, but Australia isn’t from what I’ve seen on tv as being LGBT accepting? Is gay marriage even allowed there?
I ask because the Anglican Church is quite the opposite in Canada...not only accepting of LGBT, but there are even LG ministers.
Gay marriage is legal in Australia, and Australia is mostly accepting of the LGBTQI community.

Offline Nina

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Re: Anglican Church in Australia detailed report on why Transitioning is a sin
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2018, 12:27:14 pm »
Gay marriage is legal in Australia, and Australia is mostly accepting of the LGBTQI community.
I stand corrected. Curiosity got me, so I googled when Australia approved same sex marriage. Barely a year ago. Surprises me...always thought Australia was more progressive that way.
Canada ok’d same sex marriage in 2005.
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