Author Topic: If being Transgender is a sin, does that make it deviant or a necessary evil  (Read 2097 times)

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Offline Wendyway2

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Hello,

By today's standards it seems that anything other than sex by marital consent is  a sin. Yet we are forgiven our sins. It is our sins that enable us to learn, and amend our behavior. Is being transgender just  a joy ride. It has been said that our greatest accomplishment is to receive pleasure. Yet, transitioning is a genetic psycho-dynamic that evolves that may, or may not be based on receiving pleasure. Today it seems we restrict our thoughts by believing being transgender is a sin because it is a sexual fetish, however the transition is not a fetish at all, it is a perception, an identification and  a direction.  Like some sins being transgender is looked on as a mental illness, but how can that be when many find it gives them a self expression they never had before. What is the conclusion can we hate either the sinner who is transgender or even the sin, when within us all we have felt an impulse to come out in this way. Are we sinners who are forgiven since like, and unlike receiving pleasure in some way we achieve self validation. Is it a mental illness, if it is it may also be harmless, but today I choose to see it is a life affirming solution that also may require evaluation and treatment.

Offline Gertrude

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Sins in the sense you discuss are a religious construct. Unless you strive to follow some fundamentalist belief system, I’d look for greener pad and fresher air if I were you. Judging yourself by thoroughly subjective standards that don’t work for you is futile at best.


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Offline Alanna1990

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being transgender is not a sin, as sins are constructs of religions, and those religions are only "true" to the followers, for people like me who don't believe in religion, as I have my own spiritual beliefs, the idea of our whole existence being a sin is borderline insulting to me.

Offline Donna

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I left the church because of the hypocrisy I felt. Love thy fellow man, forgiveness and love, understanding and compassion. Yet to be different is a sin, to be pink or blue, left or right of their center line. None of it makes sense to be condemned for being a loving caring compassionate human being living a clean and proper life in different  cloths or company.
Oh and don’t get me started on the abusers protected by the church, and not just the Catholic Church. My abuser was a Presbyterian clergy member. So transitioning is the farthest thing from being a sin, I love my wife, I don’t mess around on her, I don’t harm others and I live a clean and moral life and no church can say I don’t. I am asexual so sex doesn’t even factor into this. I know sexual fetishes all too well as I used them to hide the true me and practising fetish’s disgusted and demeaned me and just makes me sick to my stomach thinking about that period in my life.  I’m not aroused or pleasured by transitioning and I’m of clearer mind now than ever before. Now that I’m the new me I’m not self harming, abusing or neglecting me. I’m also now happy in life and not wanting to end it any more. Sorry I rant but that’s me.
December 2015 noticed strange feelings moving in
December 2016 started to understand what my body has been telling me all my life, started wearing a bra for comfort full time
Spiro and dutastricide 2017
Mid year 2017 Started dressing and going out shopping etc by myself
October T 14.8 / 456
Came out to my wife in December 2017
January 2018 dressing androgenes and still have face hair
Feb 2018 Dressing full time in female clothing out at work and to friends and family, clean shaven and make up
Living full time March 1 2018
March T 7.4 / 236
April 19th eligard injection, no more Testosterone
June 19th a brand new freshly trained HRT and transgender care doctor for me. Only a one day waiting list to become her patient 😍

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Mumei

Hi Wendy,
Nice thoughts on a tough subject for so many people.

For me:

If there is fundamental standard for sinning, it would be an inability to follow the "Golden Rule:"

One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated.


When it comes to pleasure, I look at pleasure along the lines of Ethical Hedonism (enjoying pleasurable things) and Epicurean Hedonism(freedom from negative things).


What I think is being talked about here is the mixing of gender with social indoctrination.

In Samoa, and other Polynesian societies, people like the fa'afafine are not considered mentally ill.But in Western societies trans has been considered a mental illness for a long time. How is it that in one society something is considered 'wrong' but in another society, that same 'thing' is business as usual. The problem the West has had with trans, probably has more to do with social indoctrination, rather than trans people themselves.

I think if psychological problems do occur in a trans person, it isn't so much the trans aspect of the persons psyche, it's the persons social indoctrination interfering with their mind.


Offline stephaniec

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I don't know is dyslexia a sin

Offline Laurel D

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Until I did this..... I lived a life of constant suffering, self hatred, and Suicidal Thoughts. I thought it was my normal, you know the way I was supposed to live. Because it's better to live that way, then to sin. I was worried about burning in hell, but I was already living in it.

I became a lot happier when I Let Go of the  social construct known as religion.

( Also I wouldn't go too deep into examining what's a sin and what's not. Man wrote those rules, and they were cultural to the Times hey were written in.  Those rules were not written by a sky-lord or some sort of other Supreme Being. )
Sins in the sense you discuss are a religious construct. Unless you strive to follow some fundamentalist belief system, I’d look for greener pad and fresher air if I were you. Judging yourself by thoroughly subjective standards that don’t work for you is futile at best.


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Offline KathyLauren

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I have never accepted the idea of sin as "statutory evil" - that something is classified as evil just because there is a rule against it.  Rules have to make sense.  For a sin to truly be a sin, it has to cause harm.  Otherwise, it is just a bunch of white old farts on a power trip.

Being transgender is not a sin.  We are born transgender, and that makes it part of God's work.  God doesn't make mistakes: he makes us transgender because that's what he wants for us.

As long as I was trying not to be transgender, I was going against God's plan for me, and I was miserable.  Now that I have recognized that I am trans, and I am taking steps to live accordingly, my life is going according to God's plan, and I am much happier.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly, beginning full-time; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2019-10-18 Phone consultation for GRS; 2020-03-11 GRS!; 2020-09-30 New birth certificate




Offline Angelic

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Hello,

By today's standards it seems that anything other than sex by marital consent is  a sin. Yet we are forgiven our sins. It is our sins that enable us to learn, and amend our behavior. Is being transgender just  a joy ride. It has been said that our greatest accomplishment is to receive pleasure. Yet, transitioning is a genetic psycho-dynamic that evolves that may, or may not be based on receiving pleasure. Today it seems we restrict our thoughts by believing being transgender is a sin because it is a sexual fetish, however the transition is not a fetish at all, it is a perception, an identification and  a direction.  Like some sins being transgender is looked on as a mental illness, but how can that be when many find it gives them a self expression they never had before. What is the conclusion can we hate either the sinner who is transgender or even the sin, when within us all we have felt an impulse to come out in this way. Are we sinners who are forgiven since like, and unlike receiving pleasure in some way we achieve self validation. Is it a mental illness, if it is it may also be harmless, but today I choose to see it is a life affirming solution that also may require evaluation and treatment.

Sin does not exist, and something is wrong only if it hurts another person. Thus, sin can never be forgiven: it does not exist.

Is the mild discomfort non-passing transsexuals cause to the untamed, as much as the psychological pain the transsexual must endure. Thus it can be argued that coming out of the closet is more moral than not, as it can be argued the overall pain to the Christ Consciousness is decreased.

Fetish does not exist, and is only wrong if it severely traumatizes another person. Whether or not something is a fetish is solely decided by its popularity level with the public.
If a man lusts for vaginas, it is not considered a fetish, simply because such a thing is popular in the public.
If a man craves and lusts for a food, it is not considered a fetish, simply because lust for food is popular in the public.
Intolerables, everywhere...cannot escape them.

Offline MaryT

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I don't know is dyslexia a sin

Good point.

A sin can only be something that you do, not something that you are.

Offline Gertrude

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The bottom line is that sin and religion is an invention of humans, often used as a tribal tool to acquire power and wealth and control people. Participating in such activities has its risks at best, at worst, crushes individuals. If there’s any sin, it’s the musterbation of the collective against people that don’t fit in to their world view, with disastrous results. IMO it’s the core problem causing adjustment and addiction problems in society. Yet, the simpletons think facile pre and proscription of behavior will magically solve these problems. War on drugs, war on guns, war on poverty, focus on the family/family values. Doesn’t work, never has. The problem is that most people don’t really understand what they believe and why and the consequences of those beliefs. They don’t understand their own motivations but want to control others. It’s a recipe for lots of problems.


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Offline Lucca

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As a child in the Evangelical church, I knew a lot of youth ministers who preached against both homosexuality and divorce... but several of them later got divorced, so I don't know where they got off on wanting gay marriage to be banned while wanting their divorces to not only be legal, but also expecting not to be excised from their churches or removed from their positions for divorcing.

My point being, if a religious person is claiming that transition is a sin and is getting on your case about it, they better be %100 consistent that they aren't committing any acts themselves that they'd consider a sin, and I can practically guarantee they aren't. Make up your own mind about what is or isn't a sin, and don't worry about what other people have to say about it. Unless they're truly paragons of total religious consistency, they don't have the right to condemn you.

Offline MissyMay2.0

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Being trans does not cause harm to anyone; and transitioning is a path to peace and happiness for many, so how is it a a bad thing? 

Offline Gertrude

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As a child in the Evangelical church, I knew a lot of youth ministers who preached against both homosexuality and divorce... but several of them later got divorced, so I don't know where they got off on wanting gay marriage to be banned while wanting their divorces to not only be legal, but also expecting not to be excised from their churches or removed from their positions for divorcing.

My point being, if a religious person is claiming that transition is a sin and is getting on your case about it, they better be %100 consistent that they aren't committing any acts themselves that they'd consider a sin, and I can practically guarantee they aren't. Make up your own mind about what is or isn't a sin, and don't worry about what other people have to say about it. Unless they're truly paragons of total religious consistency, they don't have the right to condemn you.

Well, Yeshua never touched on homosexuality or transgender in any form and further, the ancient jews had 6 different gender categories to describe people, not just male and female. They look into to scripture to support their agenda. It's a form of abrogation. Other religions do the same thing.

Offline Gertrude

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Being trans does not cause harm to anyone; and transitioning is a path to peace and happiness for many, so how is it a a bad thing?

Look up musterbation. Albert Ellis had a lot to say about stuff like this. It's how these people were raised and that environment. They need certainty in this world and to belong to a tribe that thinks as they do. Basically, musterbation is I must behave a certain way to be acceptable to others, others must behave a certain way to be acceptable to me and the world must be a certain way to be acceptable to me and my tribe. This has led to a lot of problems in our world.

Offline Lucca

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Well, Yeshua never touched on homosexuality or transgender in any form and further, the ancient jews had 6 different gender categories to describe people, not just male and female. They look into to scripture to support their agenda. It's a form of abrogation. Other religions do the same thing.

Well, I've read enough conflicting scholarly interpretations of the Bible that I just don't care to make any appeals about what it does or doesn't say anymore. The reality is that people will believe whatever they want about it, and will usually only change their minds in response to non-biblical arguments and events. I've known people who changed their minds about homosexuality or young-Earth creationism because they saw the destructive results that their beliefs about those things caused; I've never known anyone who changed their minds primarily on Biblical study and interpretation.

gingerViktorKay

God is both a creator and a destroyer. Creation is associated with women and destruction with men. If anything God sounds bi-gender.

The bible and other documents were established to guide mankind into a society containing social norms. Those times needed those beliefs and they did what was needed back then. We are no longer primitive and have evolved. Now we have enough science, knowledge, experience being civilized to move on.

Not everything in the book(s) is bad or good and some still have relevance today.

I am spiritual and do believe in a higher power.

Offline DawnOday

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From what I understand <transgender> begins in the womb.
Which Christianity tells us is because God created you.
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual IV (DSM IV) (1994) is at least in part, the result of insufficient or inappropriate androgenization of the brain at a critical stage of embryonic development. As a result, the affected individual may be left with somewhere between a partial and a full sense of having a cross-sexed gender identity. Essentially creating a not-male, not-female but otherwise permanent gender variant condition. Even though there apparently are some individuals who fall very close to or dead-center on the gender identity spectrum, most gender variant people can easily identify with being closer to one end of the spectrum then the other.
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gingerViktorKay

From what I understand <transgender> begins in the womb.
Which Christianity tells us is because God created you.
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual IV (DSM IV) (1994) is at least in part, the result of insufficient or inappropriate androgenization of the brain at a critical stage of embryonic development. As a result, the affected individual may be left with somewhere between a partial and a full sense of having a cross-sexed gender identity. Essentially creating a not-male, not-female but otherwise permanent gender variant condition. Even though there apparently are some individuals who fall very close to or dead-center on the gender identity spectrum, most gender variant people can easily identify with being closer to one end of the spectrum then the other.

I believe that being gender variant makes us special and not in a bad way. It provides us with unique challenged but strengths as well. We all heard the stories about how men can't relate to women and vise versa. Personally, I've really never had this problem. I get it. This has to be a strength that very few people have. We are special and God knows it even if mankind does not.

Offline Gertrude

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Well, I've read enough conflicting scholarly interpretations of the Bible that I just don't care to make any appeals about what it does or doesn't say anymore. The reality is that people will believe whatever they want about it, and will usually only change their minds in response to non-biblical arguments and events. I've known people who changed their minds about homosexuality or young-Earth creationism because they saw the destructive results that their beliefs about those things caused; I've never known anyone who changed their minds primarily on Biblical study and interpretation.

I am not a christian scholar at all. Just been through 8 years of Episcopal parochial school and a lifetime of observing useful idiots of a lot of different kinds of beliefs. The older I get, the less tribal I have become. It's a pox on us. My point was that people participate in confirmation bias and motivated reasoning, often to convince or reinforce they are right and in an effort to get or make everyone else agree with them. There are people like this in all political and religious stripes as well as stuff that shouldn't even be a belief system, but gets turned into one.

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