Author Topic: If being Transgender is a sin, does that make it deviant or a necessary evil  (Read 2095 times)

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gingerViktorKay

I am not a christian scholar at all. Just been through 8 years of Episcopal parochial school and a lifetime of observing useful idiots of a lot of different kinds of beliefs. The older I get, the less tribal I have become. It's a pox on us. My point was that people participate in confirmation bias and motivated reasoning, often to convince or reinforce they are right and in an effort to get or make everyone else agree with them. There are people like this in all political and religious stripes as well as stuff that shouldn't even be a belief system, but gets turned into one.

Yup to control others.

Offline chrisalex

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Hello,

By today's standards it seems that anything other than sex by marital consent is  a sin. Yet we are forgiven our sins. It is our sins that enable us to learn, and amend our behavior. Is being transgender just  a joy ride. It has been said that our greatest accomplishment is to receive pleasure. Yet, transitioning is a genetic psycho-dynamic that evolves that may, or may not be based on receiving pleasure. Today it seems we restrict our thoughts by believing being transgender is a sin because it is a sexual fetish, however the transition is not a fetish at all, it is a perception, an identification and  a direction.  Like some sins being transgender is looked on as a mental illness, but how can that be when many find it gives them a self expression they never had before. What is the conclusion can we hate either the sinner who is transgender or even the sin, when within us all we have felt an impulse to come out in this way. Are we sinners who are forgiven since like, and unlike receiving pleasure in some way we achieve self validation. Is it a mental illness, if it is it may also be harmless, but today I choose to see it is a life affirming solution that also may require evaluation and treatment.
By today's standards?

By today's standards I consider the christian faith a dangerous, aggressive cult that severely degrades mental health of its followers. Here's why:

First, historical crimes against humanity commited by the catholic church such as witch hunts and total suppression of so called heretics, especially during the medieval.

More present crimes such as sexual exploitation and abuse perpetrated by catholic priests. Frequently in the press.

Check out which peoples and societies are primarily responsible for environmental pollution and extinction of species. It's the christians, of course, crucifying Earth.
 
Check out which peoples and societies were responsible for colonialism and so called "crusades"... The christians of course, wiping out native indigenous peoples and their native spirituality, replacing it with christian doctrine.

Yikes. Wanna check out more? It's all there in the history books. Enroll at your local universities.

No need to continue any discriminatory discussions on trans levied by christians. Nope. No need at all. If anything, I understand the persecution of christians and its necessity. So, preferably we'd discuss that. And we should discuss the ignorance of institutionalised faith and, in this regard, the innocence of Christ who is definately not responsible for the idiocy of those abusing his teachings for their political purposes and economical profits.

Cheers

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Offline chrisalex

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Well, Yeshua never touched on homosexuality or transgender in any form and further, the ancient jews had 6 different gender categories to describe people, not just male and female. They look into to scripture to support their agenda. It's a form of abrogation. Other religions do the same thing.
Do you have more information on the 6 different gender categories ancient jews had to describe people, e. g. literature references, links? I'm highly interested in information on culturally different conceptualisations of trans.

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Offline chrisalex

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Hi Wendy,
Nice thoughts on a tough subject for so many people.

For me:

If there is fundamental standard for sinning, it would be an inability to follow the "Golden Rule:"

One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated.


When it comes to pleasure, I look at pleasure along the lines of Ethical Hedonism (enjoying pleasurable things) and Epicurean Hedonism(freedom from negative things).


What I think is being talked about here is the mixing of gender with social indoctrination.

In Samoa, and other Polynesian societies, people like the fa'afafine are not considered mentally ill.But in Western societies trans has been considered a mental illness for a long time. How is it that in one society something is considered 'wrong' but in another society, that same 'thing' is business as usual. The problem the West has had with trans, probably has more to do with social indoctrination, rather than trans people themselves.

I think if psychological problems do occur in a trans person, it isn't so much the trans aspect of the persons psyche, it's the persons social indoctrination interfering with their mind.

Western psychiatry is massively backwards and, like western religious faiths (christianity that is), abused for the purpose of those in power and their economical interests. Western psychiatry has hardly anything to do with healing. Though it's got a lot to do with control and exerting power over people. Western psychiatry is, of course, heavily influenced by christian faith, the backbone of western culture. Western culture is totally degenerate in many aspects. That explains many issues trans people have in western societies. It's the misfit of western culture.

I totally agree with your assumption that on the inside its the social indoctrination that interferes with their free individuation. They fall victim to their conditioning.
On the outside, frictions arise from the conditioning of the others who cannot accept free, awoken individuals.



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Offline Gertrude

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Do you have more information on the 6 different gender categories ancient jews had to describe people, e. g. literature references, links? I'm highly interested in information on culturally different conceptualisations of trans.

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Google is your friend:
http://www.sojourngsd.org/blog/sixgenders

https://www.jta.org/jewniverse/2015/the-6-genders-of-the-talmud

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_and_Judaism

https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/37225?lang=bi

https://jwa.org/Encyclopedia/Article/Gender-Identity-In-Halakhic-Discourse

I wonder if SoCons will appreciate digging into the Old Testament on this one...

Offline SarahM777

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It's really very simple as to why they had those. How did they deal with a child who was born intersexed under the law?

 12 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised. 4 Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over. 5 If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.
6 “‘When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the tent of meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering.[a] 7 He shall offer them before the Lord to make atonement for her, and then she will be ceremonially clean from her flow of blood.
“‘These are the regulations for the woman who gives birth to a boy or a girl. 8 But if she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean.’”


Notice there are different lengths of time that a woman was "unclean" if the child was a boy of if the child was a girl. But the child is born and how does one determine whether the time of being unclean is the shorter time for a boy or the longer time for a girl?
Answers are easy. It's asking the right questions which is hard.

Be positive in the fact that there is always one person in a worse situation then you.

The Fourth Doctor

Offline DawnOday

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What's to forgive. My Doctor Lewis, that prescribed  DES to my mother because he feared she may have another miscarriage. Or my failure to hold my wedding vows because the desire to exist as my predetermined self overwhelmed my perceived perfect hetero marriage. Or are we to forgive me for after 64 years living as a male out of fear that I might offend somebody. I have married for a second time. Thirty five years now. I told my wife prior to our marriage and she never mentioned it again. Two and a years ago I told her and our children that I was suffering severe depression pretty much my whole life. DES did not just affect my gender. Due to DES I had a deformed aortic heart valve, depression, congestive heart failure, diabetes. A deformed micro penis and late descending testicles. The question I get at support meetings is why would anyone want to be transgender? Why would one put themselves on drugs and under a knife. The mind is a complex organ that is formed in the second trimester, after the body is formed. Based on a half century of information the formation of the brain takes two trimesters. I am this way because around week eight or nine, Dr. Lewis started administering DES at volumes 3000 - 5000 times that of a single birth control pill. Here are some things you may want to read that show, God has nothing to do with it. . Just a little information. My grandparents helped Aimee Simple McPherson develop the Foursquare church known as Angeles Temple. My grandmother an ordained minister was the most hateful racist person I know. I watched people stand and deliver conversations with God  in tongues. I could never figure out how they could always get the timing down to when the minister had a little break in their sermon. The last straw was when they discussed dress code rather than the reason for the day. Easter and the resurrection of Christ.  https://desaction.org/des-sons/   https://www.functionalneurology.com/materiale_cic/389_XXIV_1/3373_sexual/index.html 
http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm                                   
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:


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First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
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First public appearance 5/15/17




Offline Beverly Anne

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If such a thing as "sin" actually existed, the sin would be not living authentically and being true to self and sharing your gifts with others. If such a thing as a god that punished people existed, it would punish people who didn't honor the way they were made by selling out to a messed up world's idea of what's normal and what isn't. I consider being transgender a gift from the cosmos, God or whatever. I honor that power by living the life I was meant to live in spectacular fashion. I therefore glorify this "maker" by living in its image, a very wonderful. loving and diverse image!
Be authentic and live life unafraid!

Offline Paul Muad-Dib

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Re: If being Transgender is a sin, does that make it deviant or a necessary evil
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2019, 07:44:33 pm »
Far as I am concerned the only thing that is really a sin is something that either jeopardizes your own soul, hurts someone else, or is a deliberate waste of something.

It's fair to say for some people, not acting to rectify the problems transsexuality causes their lives is little better than giving up and allowing it to destroy your life. Trying to find a fix for the problem should be no more a sin than excising someone's cancer.

Which is why I've got no problem with this whole thing. GD is a disease, in my view, because it hurts the one who suffers from it. You don't ignore diseases, you attempt to mitigate or eliminate them. If a religious person begrudged or prevented someone being cured of a disease like cancer, I'd say they are propagating deliberate and preventable waste of human life. The same can be said for those with severe GD. We know what it does to us. 

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