Author Topic: Oestrogen Longevity?  (Read 434 times)

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Offline pamelatransuk

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Oestrogen Longevity?
« on: April 19, 2018, 05:28:20 am »
We all know why we as transgirls wish to increase our oestrogen and decrease our testosterone.

However feminization aside, I was wondering that as it a given in most developed countries that women live a little longer than men, is there evidence that it is solely or partly due to the greater oestrogen level or is mainly other factors (eg lifestyle, diet, stress level) or combination of both please?

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I assume it too early to judge whether oestrogen increases life expectancy of transwomen as pure oestradiol is relevantly recent and presumably insubstantial proof?

Any evidence that post menopause women on HRT live longer than those not prescribed it please?

Thanking you

Pamela



Online Devlyn

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 06:03:14 am »
I don't know about living longer, but it does feel like I'm finally living the way I should be.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Offline warlockmaker

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2018, 06:14:06 am »
I believe so. Our metabolism is slower which has many positive effects e.g We cannot drink alcohol as much. Our whole system works slower. Then there is the agressive nature of T resulting in tension and stress It also changes how we deal with problems, men keep it to themselves and women talk about their problems. Thus reducing stresz. All good for the heart and avoidence of cancer. This is especially good for tgs as we dont have periods nor childbirth - both stressful for the body. Also we as tgs eliminate all the reproductuve cancer issues of men and females.

So I think we should live longer. For me I am also at peace and happy, making yet a longer life to help others.
When we first start our journey the perception and moral values all dramatically change in wonderment. As we evolve further it all becomes normal again but the journey has changed us forever.

SRS January 21st,  2558 (Buddhist calander), 2015

Offline KathyLauren

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2018, 07:38:59 am »
I am not sure if it is estrogen making women live longer.  My understanding was that it was the other way around: testosterone making men live shorter lives.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly, beginning full-time; 2017-07-10 Legal name change

Offline KayXo

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2018, 09:57:56 am »
However feminization aside, I was wondering that as it a given in most developed countries that women live a little longer than men, is there evidence that it is solely or partly due to the greater oestrogen level or is mainly other factors (eg lifestyle, diet, stress level) or combination of both please?

The truth is NO ONE KNOWS. It's all speculation.

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Forgive me if I'm wrong but I assume it too early to judge whether oestrogen increases life expectancy of transwomen as pure oestradiol is relevantly recent and presumably insubstantial proof?

When reading the The Transsexual Phenomena (1966) by Harry Benjamin, there was an interesting except about this and it goes something like this

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it may be most interesting in future years to watch these patients who have received estrogen over a long period of time. Will they be less prone to develop coronary heart disease and other circulatory ailments that go with the process of aging? A well-known cardiologist, noted for his research in cholesterol metabolism, who had occasion to see a number of transsexuals under estrogen therapy, remarked jokingly, "These people will probably live forever."

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Any evidence that post menopause women on HRT live longer than those not prescribed it please?

There was one large randomized controlled study from Denmark showing that women on HRT were less likely to die compared to those not on HRT and also less likely to have cardiovascular events. This study lasted 10 yrs but effects remained after 6 yrs. Also, women on estrogen alone were less likely to have breast cancer as well as the younger women on HRT.

In another large Finnish study (you gotta love those Scandinavians!), this time an observational study (hence less reliable), they found that women on any type of HRT were less likely to DIE from cardiac problems and this effect was greater the earlier the women started HRT.

I have read thousands, if not tens of thousands of studies relating to HRT and I'm personally convinced that estrogen provides so many more benefits than drawbacks and that if men naturally have the luxury to have somewhat elevated testosterone levels, even into very old age, we should be given that same luxury, especially considering the risks of taking E appear to be so small, as to be negligible.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005

Offline pamelatransuk

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2018, 04:57:01 am »
Thank you KayXo for such interesting and uplifting information!

I know you are not exaggerating either - I am sure you have read tens of thousands of studies on HRT.

Pamela



Offline Dani

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2018, 05:15:28 am »
I am 68 years old and I outlived all my brothers and sisters.

How is that for anecdotal evidence that proper HRT can allow you to live longer!

One other comment though. Years ago when non-bio identical estrogens were commonly used, some women experienced DVT especially if they were over age 35 and smokers.



Offline MaryT

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2018, 06:17:39 am »
Kathy Lauren is right.  Testosterone seems to shorten lives.

A study found that Korean eunuchs lived 14 to 19 years longer than intact men.  A study of a Kansas institution where castration was used found that: "... the castrated inmates on average lived 13.6 years longer than the intact ones (55.7 vs 69.3 years). What's more, the earlier you were castrated, the longer you lived." (Quoted from gizmodo dot com.)  An mnn dot com article titled "'Man flu' is real, so give the men in your life a break" says that a 2013 study at Stanford University found that "a man's antibody response time was directly correlated to his testosterone levels. The higher the testosterone, the slower and weaker the immune response."


Offline KayXo

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2018, 03:01:04 pm »
Kathy Lauren is right.  Testosterone seems to shorten lives.

A study found that Korean eunuchs lived 14 to 19 years longer than intact men.  A study of a Kansas institution where castration was used found that: "... the castrated inmates on average lived 13.6 years longer than the intact ones (55.7 vs 69.3 years). What's more, the earlier you were castrated, the longer you lived." (Quoted from gizmodo dot com.)  An mnn dot com article titled "'Man flu' is real, so give the men in your life a break" says that a 2013 study at Stanford University found that "a man's antibody response time was directly correlated to his testosterone levels. The higher the testosterone, the slower and weaker the immune response."

That wouldn't make sense because typically, younger men have the highest testosterone levels and as they age, testosterone levels decline. If testosterone were the culprit, the younger men are, the more they should drop like flies!
I've come across, if my memory serves me well, a few studies suggesting testosterone actually strengthens the immune system.

Those studies you mention are associative and as such, no cause and effect can be established. There are way to many confounding variables. Also, I would be curious to read that study fully.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005

Offline Pisces228

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2018, 10:25:27 pm »
Part of it might just be that women are more likely to go to the Dr for problems and take care of themselves than men are.
~Tara


Offline MaryT

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2018, 05:42:25 am »
That wouldn't make sense because typically, younger men have the highest testosterone levels and as they age, testosterone levels decline. If testosterone were the culprit, the younger men are, the more they should drop like flies!
I've come across, if my memory serves me well, a few studies suggesting testosterone actually strengthens the immune system.

Those studies you mention are associative and as such, no cause and effect can be established. There are way to many confounding variables. Also, I would be curious to read that study fully.

You may be right.  I am not a scientist and everything I have read on the subject is contained in the one paragraph that I wrote. 

However, you suggested that younger men should die more than older men if testosterone causes men to die more than women.  That implies that testosterone is the only cause of death.  Old people can die of many things unrelated to testosterone, as their bodies shut down.  The "testosterone suppresses immunity" hypothesis is PRECISELY that testosterone causes even young men to get sicker than young women, and put them at more risk of death.

The idea that people die when they are old and not when they are young is fairly modern.  We tend to think that when the average lifespan was forty, old people were a very small percentage of the population.  However, historically, it was mainly the deaths of young people, especially children, that brought down the average lifespan, not the deaths of old people.  If a man was tough enough to reach thirty after surviving childhood diseases, smallpox, loss of blood and any number of infections in ages without antibiotics or blood transfusions, he had a good chance of reaching sixty or more.  Three score and ten healthy years, the Bible mentions, sometimes followed by another ten less enjoyable years.

I agree that much more research needs to be done, on whether testosterone affects immunity, before anything can be stated as a scientific fact.

Offline AnonyMs

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2018, 10:33:15 am »
Not sure I'd still be alive if I wasn't on hrt, so I'd say estrogen is letting me live longer. I'd guess similar goes for ftm with testesterone. Given the reported 40% suicide attempt rate it seems pretty clear.

Offline EndlessEden

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2018, 11:25:33 am »
Part of it might just be that women are more likely to go to the Dr for problems and take care of themselves than men are.

XD i can certainly agree with this. But, when taking into account a Trans* persons likelihood, I think that outlook changes.

I certainly don't feel comfortable in public every day, I don't have social issues from my appearance, but those that learn of me or read my charts tend to treat me poorly and not use gender correct terms. Its really frustrating, and has built a fear of those social environments as a result. So i cant say that i am seeing the doctor more, i actually avoid the doctor out of fear as a result. Which makes it more stressful.

But, this is very, YMMV. I suppose, my experience is not the norm, but rather the exception. (I need to stop feeling the need to be validated i think...)

Although, whats your opinions? - does this affect others? Do you think it shortens our lifespans?

----

There is another point that, AnonyMs makes:
Not sure I'd still be alive if I wasn't on hrt ...

I was certainly VERY self-destructive before HRT. I didn't /Want/ to live before Transition. I wonder how many men, are not happy with there life, thus living Self-Destructive lifestyles?

I mean there is a strong stigma on men, to not complain and never show emotions. It must practically wreck them.
(I have no idea because outside of self-destructiveness, i was never 'Masculine')

Offline pamelatransuk

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2018, 05:39:21 am »
I was certainly VERY self-destructive before HRT. I didn't /Want/ to live before Transition. I wonder how many men, are not happy with there life, thus living Self-Destructive lifestyles?

I mean there is a strong stigma on men, to not complain and never show emotions. It must practically wreck them.
(I have no idea because outside of self-destructiveness, i was never 'Masculine')

Hello EndlessEden

I was never suicidal or self-destructive but like you I did not wish to actually live. I saw life as just something to endure; I was just existing as opposed to living. As a result of that and due to dysphoria becoming so dominant, I decided along with my therapist that HRT was the correct course of action.

I am not public yet but intend to be hopefully when physical changes occur.

Also like you I was never masculine anyway.

Hugs

Pamela



Offline pamelatransuk

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Re: Oestrogen Longevity?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2018, 04:25:49 am »
Thank you ladies for all your information and mainly good news on this subject and for your uplifting comments.

Pamela



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