Author Topic: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People  (Read 459 times)

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Online itsApril

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Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People

The New York Times
By Katie Benner
May 11, 2018

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/us/politics/justice-department-transgender-inmates-crime-victims.html

"WASHINGTON — Justice Department divisions are seeking to roll back policies that offer protections for gay and transgender people, amid a broader push by the Trump administration to reverse such rules.

"The Bureau of Prisons will now use an inmate’s biological sex to initially determine where that person will be housed and which bathroom the person will use, according to a policy change to the bureau’s Transgender Offender Manual released Friday.

"The revised manual says assigning an inmate to a prison facility based on the person’s identified gender is appropriate “only in rare cases.”

* * *

"Critics say the changes reflect a larger effort to reduce rights for gay, lesbian and transgender citizens, including in the military and in public schools."
-April

Offline HappyMoni

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2018, 04:26:00 pm »
This is not transphobia, this is not morality, this is hate, pure and simple hatered!
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
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Offline AnneK

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2018, 04:50:35 pm »
Quote
The move comes after several women at a prison in Texas filed a federal lawsuit, saying that sharing quarters with transgender women had endangered them.

How safe will a trans woman be, if force to live in the male population?
I'm a 64 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.  I am exploring where I want to take things and recently talked to my doctor about HRT.

Offline Deborah

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2018, 04:53:08 pm »
How safe will a trans woman be, if force to live in the male population?
Not safe at all.  Our ruling regime couldn’t care less about our welfare.


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Offline Doreen

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2018, 04:54:58 pm »
How safe will a trans woman be, if force to live in the male population?

Very unsafe.. this is what I've been saying a long long time.  You may identify as female.. you may look 100% female, but all they care about is whats between your legs.  Don't commit a crime if you know what the repercussions will be. 

That being said, just like a woman with a short skirt, its NEVER EVER 'her' fault for getting raped, just as anything that happens against trans I blame society, the prison population, and yes our backwards laws & government.  Let us pray this too passes quickly and more sensible laws can be enacted in the future. 


Online AnonyMs

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2018, 05:09:01 pm »
If it's biological sex then it look like they won't care what's between your legs either. Hard to believe that's possible.

You don't have to commit a crime to end up in jail. There's plenty of injustice in the world.

Offline Deborah

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2018, 05:13:24 pm »
If it's biological sex then it look like they won't care what's between your legs either. Hard to believe that's possible.

You don't have to commit a crime to end up in jail. There's plenty of injustice in the world.
Particularly if you live in the country with the highest per capita prison population in the world.

In this case the USA really is number 1.


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Offline Doreen

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2018, 05:29:08 pm »
If it's biological sex then it look like they won't care what's between your legs either. Hard to believe that's possible.

You don't have to commit a crime to end up in jail. There's plenty of injustice in the world.

You do have a point, some states (I think Georgia is one? I forget) where they will keep your birth gender no matter what you repair.  Stupid stupid humanity and ancient theocracy rules we can't seem to shake.  One would think the 'enlightenment' never happened.

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2018, 08:56:25 pm »
If it's biological sex then it look like they won't care what's between your legs either. Hard to believe that's possible.

You don't have to commit a crime to end up in jail. There's plenty of injustice in the world.

Biological sex isn't directly related to Chromosomes and usually implies physical attributes. So someone who has surgery and all their documents changed prior to the offense is most likely going to fly under the radar. It's not like they do chromosome checks on inmates.

Also, the document that the article refers to can be read here:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4459297-BOP-Change-Order-Transgender-Offender-Manual-5.html

There are still provisions for transgender inmates to be house correctly, and even for HRT, but housing being based on gender identity alone are non-existent at best and steps backward in so many ways. Basically, it's all at the discretion of the powers at be (warden, etc).
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Offline Doreen

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2018, 09:12:17 pm »
Biological sex isn't directly related to Chromosomes and usually implies physical attributes. So someone who has surgery and all their documents changed prior to the offense is most likely going to fly under the radar. It's not like they do chromosome checks on inmates.

Also, the document that the article refers to can be read here:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4459297-BOP-Change-Order-Transgender-Offender-Manual-5.html

There are still provisions for transgender inmates to be house correctly, and even for HRT, but housing being based on gender identity alone are non-existent at best and steps backward in so many ways. Basically, it's all at the discretion of the powers at be (warden, etc).

Yup there are countless intersexed variations, even people completely female in external appearances that have XY chromosomes with NO visible genetic alterations other than being 'xy' (though of course some do.. about 60% don't though).  Androgen insensitivity & Swyers Syndrome come readily to mind. If they genetically test these females (that's how most usually identify from what I've seen) may the gods be merciful on the USA if they start throwing them in with the male populace. 

"Discretion" is rarely something wardens are famous for.  Lets hope it doesn't come down to this.

Offline Jacqueline

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2018, 03:10:05 am »
At the risk of heating this up further. I feel as though a war has been declared. I don't really know if Mr Trump cares about trans folks one way or another. However, as far as his constituents and cabinet(VP as well) goes, he's doing a bang up job.

Here is where the fear returns. As Annonyms said, one does not have to commit a crime to end up in jail. Civil disobedience(protesting), speeding, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Let's be honest. For years police would occasionally bring in a suspected trans person and accuse them of sex work.

I did not want to rush my surgery. However, now I want to do it sooner than planned.

Hope you are all okay out there. It is a scary time.

With warmth and hope,

Jacqui
1st Therapy: February 2015
First Endo visit & HRT StartJanuary 29, 2016
Jacqueline from Joanna July 18, 2017






Offline HappyMoni

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2018, 10:04:57 am »
This really points out the issue of passion and involvement. A small group of impassioned haters are dictating things because they are involved with making things happen. In my experience, the majority of folks don't hate, don't care about our issue and would rather have their noses aimed directly at their phones in whatever cultural phenomenon sparks their interest. They seem to have no 'skin in the game' to be involved, to know what is even happening. They aren't bad people, just not passionate. The whole 60's peace and love thing came about because people were afraid their butts were going to Vietnam. They sure as hell got passionate then. We need regular folks to vote, so the leaders we get will no longer promote what is, pure and simple, hateful discrimination against LGBTIQA and people of minorities of other types. I don't know what it will take, but the way I see it, we, as a country, have to find our way again.
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
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HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner- in Baltimore)

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Offline AnneK

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2018, 11:03:15 am »
Quote
Here is where the fear returns. As Annonyms said, one does not have to commit a crime to end up in jail. Civil disobedience(protesting), speeding, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time

Someone here mentioned Georgia.  Here's an example of what can happen, even when not trans:

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/05/07/woman-says-she-was-arrested-in-us-for-driving-with-canadian-licence.html
I'm a 64 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.  I am exploring where I want to take things and recently talked to my doctor about HRT.

Offline Deborah

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2018, 11:54:11 am »
This really points out the issue of passion and involvement. A small group of impassioned haters are dictating things because they are involved with making things happen. In my experience, the majority of folks don't hate, don't care about our issue and would rather have their noses aimed directly at their phones in whatever cultural phenomenon sparks their interest. They seem to have no 'skin in the game' to be involved, to know what is even happening. They aren't bad people, just not passionate. The whole 60's peace and love thing came about because people were afraid their butts were going to Vietnam. They sure as hell got passionate then. We need regular folks to vote, so the leaders we get will no longer promote what is, pure and simple, hateful discrimination against LGBTIQA and people of minorities of other types. I don't know what it will take, but the way I see it, we, as a country, have to find our way again.
Actually, it’s not such a small group.  White evangelicals are 26 percent of the population.  They vote heavily and vote nearly exclusively Republican.  The reasons for this are well documented and extensively published in reputable magazines and other news sources.  Listing those reasons here are not allowed per forum rules.

The good news is that their share of the population is declining due to their outrageous beliefs and the unpalatably of their doctrines to many people under 50 years old.  So in time (mid to long term) the problem will solve itself.

In the meantime those majority of the people who sit at home complaining while not bothering to vote need to start voting.  That has a very good chance of solving the problem in the short term.


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Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

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Online itsApril

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2018, 12:32:42 pm »
I did not want to rush my surgery. However, now I want to do it sooner than planned.

Hope you are all okay out there. It is a scary time.

With warmth and hope,

Jacqui

There's another consideration that favors moving the timeline forward: the Trump administration is signaling that it wants to revise healthcare regulations to eliminate transgender protections regarding health insurance coverage.  This is the subject of an earlier thread you might want to look over:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,236833.0.html

Basically, the issue is that the regulations adopted under the Affordable Care Act required that many trans-related medical, surgical, and counseling services must be considered as covered by health insurance policies.  The current administration intends to eliminate that provision.

The result of this healthcare rollback would return us to the status that existed a number of years ago, when insurers routinely denied coverage for trans-related services on the rationale that they were "cosmetic," or "elective," or "experimental."

If we get to the point that trans-related services are no longer covered by health insurance, many trans folks will find them out of reach financially.  Changing federal regulations is not a quick or easy process, so there's still time.  But if you have health insurance that currently provides coverage for trans-related issues, you might want to move quickly through that window - before it closes.
-April

Offline Doreen

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Re: Federal Prisons Roll Back Rules Protecting Transgender People
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2018, 12:51:23 pm »
There's another consideration that favors moving the timeline forward: the Trump administration is signaling that it wants to revise healthcare regulations to eliminate transgender protections regarding health insurance coverage.  This is the subject of an earlier thread you might want to look over:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,236833.0.html

Basically, the issue is that the regulations adopted under the Affordable Care Act required that many trans-related medical, surgical, and counseling services must be considered as covered by health insurance policies.  The current administration intends to eliminate that provision.

The result of this healthcare rollback would return us to the status that existed a number of years ago, when insurers routinely denied coverage for trans-related services on the rationale that they were "cosmetic," or "elective," or "experimental."

If we get to the point that trans-related services are no longer covered by health insurance, many trans folks will find them out of reach financially.  Changing federal regulations is not a quick or easy process, so there's still time.  But if you have health insurance that currently provides coverage for trans-related issues, you might want to move quickly through that window - before it closes.

I understand the concern, and obviously am against it.  That being said I grew up in a time where NOTHING was covered by insurance.. not to mention I didn't have insurance to cover anything anyways.   I still got bottom surgery correction, ffs, etc.. done. Granted I cheated the whole hoop system, but nonetheless my point remains:

If you want something bad enough you will find a way to achieve it.  I did, and I had to sacrifice much to obtain it.  We live in a society where we think everything should be provided for.  The simple fact remains if you rely on the government, the political whims of the moment can whisk everything out from under foot at any time.  Prepare for events that are beyond your control if you can.  I certainly did, and didn't "wait" for their whole process.   I just did it. 

I hope this inspires instead of angers.  It irritates me that this is being done, but ... desperation is the mother of invention, as the saying (I think) goes.  It obviously doesn't make what the politicians are doing right, however.

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