Author Topic: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004  (Read 1006 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Charlotte F

  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 194
  • Reputation: +4/-0
  • Gender: Female
Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« on: July 06, 2018, 03:30:05 am »
The government has this week launched a consultation into the ridiculously bureaucratic GRC application process.  Of the estimated 500,000 or so of us in the UK, only 5000 have ever successfully applied for a GRC.  Without a GRC, a trans person convicted of a crime would be sent to a prison for the gender they were assigned at birth (regardless of where there are at in their transition).  These can also affect lots of other things such as some benefits and pension rights so it is really quite an important matter

If you have a spare half hour or so, the more of us that take part in this consultation, the more likely things are to change for the better

Read more about it here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act-2004

Fill in the survey here:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/government-equalities-office/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act/consultation/intro/

Charlotte x

Offline mittenskittens

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 31
  • Reputation: +1/-0
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2018, 12:24:54 am »
I did it but I didnt understand alot of that.

Offline Alexa Ares

  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • Reputation: +2/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2018, 08:03:24 am »
Thanks for putting up the link Charlotte F.

I filled it out over 2 days.
I feel its a good thing they are doing by consulting the public.

For what its worth, and this is likely to be unpopular on here, I don't feel it is in the interests of the Trans community to allow Self Certification for GR Certificates. Too much room for problems and also, its something people have to be VERY sure about.

 I agree, it would be better for the process to be smoother, swifter and more personalised, however it has to be regulated by government, and a Psychiatrist or two has to sign off. To not require this is reckless.
Thats my 2 cents.

Lexa xx

Online sophie1904

  • Friend
  • ****
  • Posts: 105
  • Reputation: +4/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2018, 01:34:23 pm »
Why is having a government and psychiatrist sign off on my gender identity a good thing?

Even aside from who knows me best. The risk of, for example, being placed in a male prison, spousal benefits, immigration problems are all real problems affecting transgender women in the UK right now.

Offline Alexa Ares

  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • Reputation: +2/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2018, 06:17:06 pm »
Its a good thing as it means people who may wish to claim trans identity so to be little trans people or to make some political point are screened out from doing so.

Pyschiatrists are not always popular as at times they are going to have to give people some harsh realities of that being openly trans is tough and taking the kids to sainsburys on a Tuesday afternoon and still being open is very different to a trans friendly club.... If one cannot handle cis gender hetro environments well they are likely to be struggling alot in a openly trans role and as such granting a GRC is questionable on if it will help them..

Im all for making the process a bit faster however there do have to be gatekeepers or else a can of worms is opened up. As a community its vital to be seen as legitimate and taken seriously by society and to not have those who wish ill on us to tarnish our name. Further i feel to be openly Trans you need to have some mental toughness, meeting a Pysch and being open and proud demonstrates this.

GRC cert should be earnt not given out on a whim. We don't need another media story of unsuccessful transition out there.

Again i won't be popular for this view however its what i feel and given im openly trans despite being a Manly looking trans I got reason to feel this needs to be said as a balance to the general mood on the board that we know best above all experts in all aspects...

Offline Charlotte F

  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 194
  • Reputation: +4/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2018, 03:08:50 pm »
I don't know Alexa.  What is good for you isn't necessarily good for many other people.  Transitioning isn't a way for me to demonstrate my strength, it is a way for me to be at peace by living & presenting as my true self.  When we are 'diagnosed' by a medical specialist, really it is nothing more than bureaucracy as the only person that knows if we are trans is us.  Not only does this take a good 2-3 years if you have the misfortune of having to go through the NHS GICs but in a country where the government and the NHS have consistently neglected mental health for decades, what mental health professionals there are could be far better used on other things than confirming what someone already knows

The arguments of the red top newspapers and TERFs that self certification leads to all sorts of danger for cis women is complete nonsense.  Other countries like Ireland, where self certification is allowed, haven't had a single incident in a female only space.  I find it quite dangerous when we start to believe or pander to these people

The fact is that to obtain a GRC we currently have to jump through hoops and conform to whatever image of femininity and womanhood a random group of strangers on a panel decide is appropriate.  If they don't think we are 'womanly' enough, we aren't getting a GRC - why should someone judge me on whether they think I've had enough surgery or taken enough hormones or am wearing a frilly enough dress?

We should also remember that no matter how stringent or difficult it is or how many gatekeepers we need to pass to legally change our gender, those who campaign against us will never be satisfied it is enough and will certainly never recognise its legitimacy

Its a good thing as it means people who may wish to claim trans identity so to be little trans people or to make some political point are screened out from doing so.

Pyschiatrists are not always popular as at times they are going to have to give people some harsh realities of that being openly trans is tough and taking the kids to sainsburys on a Tuesday afternoon and still being open is very different to a trans friendly club.... If one cannot handle cis gender hetro environments well they are likely to be struggling alot in a openly trans role and as such granting a GRC is questionable on if it will help them..

Im all for making the process a bit faster however there do have to be gatekeepers or else a can of worms is opened up. As a community its vital to be seen as legitimate and taken seriously by society and to not have those who wish ill on us to tarnish our name. Further i feel to be openly Trans you need to have some mental toughness, meeting a Pysch and being open and proud demonstrates this.

GRC cert should be earnt not given out on a whim. We don't need another media story of unsuccessful transition out there.

Again i won't be popular for this view however its what i feel and given im openly trans despite being a Manly looking trans I got reason to feel this needs to be said as a balance to the general mood on the board that we know best above all experts in all aspects...

Offline Alexa Ares

  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • Reputation: +2/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2018, 08:13:37 am »
I don't know Alexa.  What is good for you isn't necessarily good for many other people.  Transitioning isn't a way for me to demonstrate my strength, it is a way for me to be at peace by living & presenting as my true self.  When we are 'diagnosed' by a medical specialist, really it is nothing more than bureaucracy as the only person that knows if we are trans is us.  Not only does this take a good 2-3 years if you have the misfortune of having to go through the NHS GICs but in a country where the government and the NHS have consistently neglected mental health for decades, what mental health professionals there are could be far better used on other things than confirming what someone already knows

The arguments of the red top newspapers and TERFs that self certification leads to all sorts of danger for cis women is complete nonsense.  Other countries like Ireland, where self certification is allowed, haven't had a single incident in a female only space.  I find it quite dangerous when we start to believe or pander to these people

The fact is that to obtain a GRC we currently have to jump through hoops and conform to whatever image of femininity and womanhood a random group of strangers on a panel decide is appropriate.  If they don't think we are 'womanly' enough, we aren't getting a GRC - why should someone judge me on whether they think I've had enough surgery or taken enough hormones or am wearing a frilly enough dress?

We should also remember that no matter how stringent or difficult it is or how many gatekeepers we need to pass to legally change our gender, those who campaign against us will never be satisfied it is enough and will certainly never recognise its legitimacy

Hi Charlotte, Firstly I respect you have a different point of view on the GRC to Myself. It is good to be able to discuss these things, as they affect us alot tbh.

I will say the system should offer a fast track where appropriate if someone can demonstrate reasons why they qualify.

I also question whether the GRC panel are still expecting Trans Women to conform to Cis Gender Hetronormative presentation of their Female identity? 

We are very lucky in this country with the NHS. Globally for Free Health care,  for TG, we are one of the best. I am very grateful to be British.

I disagree that the only person who knows if we are Trans is us. I think if one is, it becomes pretty clear after a analysis of past and present, and goals for future, and the viewpoints of those around us. PLUS a medical professional.

I Feel its vital anyone who feels they are Trans does go to see a Psychiatrist to get a diagnosis and sees a Pyschologist fairly regularly  before going head first into a transition. There are cases and situations where someones Gender Dysphoria is going to be best met by looking at other approaches than full on transition. Once someone is out of the Box so to speak ,its very hard for them to go back.  Further, many TGs will have other issues going on, and Gender Transition will not solve them all. Its vital one is realistic about life, and learns to manage themselves as that is needed for what is a very tough undertaking.
Support groups can be echo chambers rather than reality checks.

To not make it too easy to change Gender, helps to make people think long and hard about what they are doing.
Lets be real, a lot of Gender Dsyphoric people are not fully aware of what exactly they are going to be dealing with in going from presenting as the opposite Gender from time to time, in a safe space, to being in the full blown public eye.


I bring up strength as it does take a lot of guts for one to be open and have a this is me attitude. This isn't to do with muscles, its to do with self acceptance and courage. Ive seen people on groups online talk a lot about how comfortable they are with their Gender yet find it hard to function in Hetro normative society. As not everyone will live in a liberal enclave this is important.

In regards to nations like Ireland. Theres been a case in Canada of some Male, identifying as Female, so to obtain cheaper car insurance. This makes me feel like society is taking the piss out of me.....Hence why I feel there needs to be checks on who can say they are Trans Female. You aint like Me, if you just want cheaper car insurance. You aint like me, if you feel like a girl some days as its a fun and a hoot on a night out......Openly stating trans Identity is HUGE. To say otherwise mocks us, and the pain of dsyphoria.

About Cis Women, and the Radical feminists. As Women, its vital we at least try to hear what they have to say. They are not really the enemy, nor are they of great social and political significance. If the Rad Fems, say anything thats a bit crazy, no one is really caring much outside of their echo chambers on social media.  The public debate has been won by the progressives thankfully.  I don't worry about a Cis Female attacking me for wearing make up and a dress. I do worry about Cis Men. I also feel Trans Women who dislike Cis Rad Fems have to remember it is still not right to use superior physical size to attack them. To do such only validates hetro men doing that to Us.

We should also remember Emily Pankhurst was probably seen as a bit radical in her day, so not all Rads are bad.

As a Husband to a Cis Wife who is the centre of my world, I would not feel okay with just anyone being able to download a form online, and then state they identify as Female, and as such access Female only spaces.  There HAS to be a process. You can't just expect to be given the status of Female. Many Cis Women, will be unhappy yet not speak out. I disagree with your statement that its utter nonsense to say Cis Women have reason to feel threatened by a free for all on GRC. Quite the opposite.....

Its not fair on Cis women. We should acknowledge as Trans women we have to take on board the feelings of Cis women, and find some middle ground. We ARE different. There can be some solidarity, yet we have to respect some Cis women, will find it very difficult, that Barry who was a musclebound cad, now identifies as Alexa, after 36 years of a Male role, and 4 kids.

The best we can all do is set a good example and be nice people. I notice when I do little things like hold doors open and show myself to be pleasant , society is pretty good to me, despite my appearance.

I LOVE Cis Women, and overall feel inspired by many to be a better less selfish trans woman.

I expect many will not like what I said here, however given I can already change my name, and the law gives me recognition as Trans if I follow a process, is the UK not better than say 195 out of 215 other nations?..........Given on top of this, our great economy, decent schools, police force, etc, I would rather live here than pretty much anywhere else.
Try being Trans in Russia, or Nigeria, or China or North Korea, or the Caribbean, etc etc.

Lexa xx

Offline Angelic

  • Friend
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
  • Reputation: +1/-1
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2018, 02:50:25 pm »
Comparing pee to poop doesn't actually make the pee edible.

Because homos get stoned in Africa doesn't mean a homo from down south should feel relief at "only" being kicked out of his family.

Because transwomen get treated worse in other places, doesn't mean I am going to celebrate the crappy treatment I receive.

If you don't mind, I am going to continue to be a bitter, selfish transwoman, who is a misanthrope who hates society and also hates most cis women and men and deeply wishes for people to suffer.

About the prison thing, in my ideal world I would make transwomen immune to prosecution, they've had to deal with enough, so what if they let loose and commit some crimes here and there, its harder for them to get jobs so its fair.

Quote
respect some Cis women, will find it very difficult, that Barry who was a musclebound cad, now identifies as Alexa, after 36 years of a Male role, and 4 kids.
Those cis scums will get zero respect from me.
Intolerables, everywhere...cannot escape them.

Offline Alexa Ares

  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • Reputation: +2/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2018, 06:52:23 am »
Comparing pee to poop doesn't actually make the pee edible.

Because homos get stoned in Africa doesn't mean a homo from down south should feel relief at "only" being kicked out of his family.

Because transwomen get treated worse in other places, doesn't mean I am going to celebrate the crappy treatment I receive.

If you don't mind, I am going to continue to be a bitter, selfish transwoman, who is a misanthrope who hates society and also hates most cis women and men and deeply wishes for people to suffer.

About the prison thing, in my ideal world I would make transwomen immune to prosecution, they've had to deal with enough, so what if they let loose and commit some crimes here and there, its harder for them to get jobs so its fair.
Those cis scums will get zero respect from me.


Okay.... If this is a attempt at tounge in cheek humour it misses the spot girl.

If you really feel like what you express above, please try to fix up... As frankly no one who is claiming trans identity can expect society to like them if they profess to disrespect cis women.

Also the word Homo..... Ain't cool. Some of us on here, did ID as Gay Men before. Others will see it as the same as calling us a Tranny or a Shim.... So I would say it's probably not the best term for use on here.

All in all your reply totally validates why we need gatekeepers for people who are trans before the gender certificate is changed. Female passports should not be given lightly.    Cis women deserve our upmost respect.

Offline Alice (nym)

  • Friend
  • ****
  • Posts: 180
  • Reputation: +5/-0
  • "But it's no use now, to pretend to be two people"
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2018, 06:55:45 am »
Maybe I am being cynical here... but do we really think that this government is going to be sympathetic to our needs?  The far right of the Tories in cahoots with the DUP... I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble or hopes but I can't see them being at all helpful to us. If this was happening under a moderate Tory government closer to the centre or under Labour...  or any combination of centrist or left parties then sure. But we are talking about a government that is being propped up by the DUP... Trans rights... seriously? The DUP and trans rights don't go together in a positive sounding sentence.
Don't hate the hate... Start spreading the love.

Offline AnneK

  • *
  • Posts: 1,138
  • Reputation: +4/-0
  • Gender: Questioning
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2018, 08:32:57 am »
I have read plenty of comments here about how hard it is to get trans care through the NHS.  We used to have similar in Ontario, until the protocols were changed in 2016.  Back in the early '90s, when I first considered this sort of thing, trans care in Ontario was only available by working with a psychiatrist at what was then known as the Clarke Institute in Toronto, with a low success rate.  With the new protocols, it's much easier, working with the family doctor.  For example, instead of dealing with a psychiatrist, hormones are on informed consent and can be prescribed by the family doctor.  Surgery can be done with 2 assessments from a doctor, practical nurse or social worker with at least a masters degree.  Surgery is also covered by our provincial health plan (has been for years), other than cosmetic and even Estradiol can be covered in some cases.

So, things are a lot better now for trans people in Ontario.  Hopefully things will soon improve across the pond.
I'm a 65 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.  I am exploring where I want to take things.

Offline Charlotte F

  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 194
  • Reputation: +4/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2018, 11:38:01 am »
I agree with you to a point but Theresa May is a champion of this so it does have real weight behind it.  It's also a policy that will likely get cross party backing from the Liberal Democrats and Labour if change is recommended in the right form so it won't be reliant on a handful of DUP and Conservative bigots

Whilst it could definitely still fall flat on its face, it's at least worth having our say.  If we do nothing, nothing will change.  There sure are enough TERFs and Anglo-American Christian groups campaigning against this so it needs every bit of support it can get


Maybe I am being cynical here... but do we really think that this government is going to be sympathetic to our needs?  The far right of the Tories in cahoots with the DUP... I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble or hopes but I can't see them being at all helpful to us. If this was happening under a moderate Tory government closer to the centre or under Labour...  or any combination of centrist or left parties then sure. But we are talking about a government that is being propped up by the DUP... Trans rights... seriously? The DUP and trans rights don't go together in a positive sounding sentence.

Offline Charlotte F

  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 194
  • Reputation: +4/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2018, 02:21:39 pm »
The deadline for the GRA has been extended until 12 noon on Monday 22nd October

If you've had trouble with the website being super slow, this could be your chance to have your voice heard and help effect change for our community

Stonewall's advice can be found at:

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/our-work/campaigns/come-out-trans-equality-0

The direct government link is:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/government-equalities-office/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act/


(sorry for the double post mods but hopefully this is warranted considering the importance of this consultation)

Offline pamelatransuk

  • Finally taking action after decades of suppression
  • *
  • Posts: 865
  • Reputation: +5/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2018, 08:53:10 am »
Hello again Charlotte

You will have seen my comments on Transgender Talk Board but others may not have and I reiterate:

"I was pleased to see support for self certification on Questiontime Thursday night and also the moving story of the transwoman and the problems she faced since childhood in 1950s and later in her adult life.

Let us all hope government brings in legislation pursuant to this consultation and that it draws support from all political parties in UK."

I agree this is not necessarily dead in the water as it should in some form be supported by several prominent Conservative MPs and by many MPs in the other political parties at Westminster.

So Monday at noon marks the end of consultation and then we must wait probably till the second half of 2019 for possible legislation.

Hugs

Pamela




Tags: