Author Topic: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?  (Read 433 times)

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Offline Maria Procter

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Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« on: July 13, 2018, 04:25:03 pm »
I feel bad for posting this because I am definitely stereotyping people here and I would like to start by saying I understand this does not represent everyone.

Anyhoo, I have heard a lot of things on here that some members of the christian community are very much against transgender people and I am really paranoid about one of my best friends, who is a christian. He is an amazing person and we do charity work and are young leaders at beavers and do basically everything together but I have an irrational fear that he will hate me if I ever come out to him, even though that would be totally out of character.

I came up with an idea that I felt bad about but wanted opinions on. I had the idea of telling him I was doing a survey on peoples opinions on transgender people for school so I can see what he thinks.

I know this is wrong and he is very open minded about things so I don't see why he would be trans-phobic, but it would really ease my mind and allow me to eventually come out to him.

What do you think?

X Maria
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Offline Paige

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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2018, 08:09:46 pm »
I feel bad for posting this because I am definitely stereotyping people here and I would like to start by saying I understand this does not represent everyone.

Anyhoo, I have heard a lot of things on here that some members of the christian community are very much against transgender people and I am really paranoid about one of my best friends, who is a christian. He is an amazing person and we do charity work and are young leaders at beavers and do basically everything together but I have an irrational fear that he will hate me if I ever come out to him, even though that would be totally out of character.

I came up with an idea that I felt bad about but wanted opinions on. I had the idea of telling him I was doing a survey on peoples opinions on transgender people for school so I can see what he thinks.

I know this is wrong and he is very open minded about things so I don't see why he would be trans-phobic, but it would really ease my mind and allow me to eventually come out to him.

What do you think?

X Maria

Hi Maria,

I don't think it's such a big thing.  You can always apologize after the fact.  He probably understands that it's a touchy subject in the Christian community.

You may not get the answer you're looking for but don't assume that's the whole answer.   If he seems somewhat negative, he may be more understanding when he knows it's someone close to him. 


Good luck,
Paige :)






Offline Amaki

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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2018, 08:18:09 pm »
I agree with paige its not that weird or bad, my best friend came out before me and I was able to use her to help me with that I'd ask the others in my group how they honestly felt it helped a lot with that group anyway (having issues with my family but thats another story lol). You could also just ask like how do they feel about trans and what do they know if they ask you what is this about just do what everyone else does and use the media as a scapegoat lol

theres nothing wrong with asking questions and worded right you can make it seem like general curiosity. But I understand about being afraid to lose someone close to you
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Offline Lady Sarah

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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2018, 08:34:23 pm »
Apparently, you are worried that the lie about doing a poll would be found out if you transition, and that fear is founded. On the other hand, you could just ask "what do you think about trans people?" and form your opinions of the reply. That way, you don't have to lie. If the response is negative, or positive, you have your answer. If the reply is positive, you may still be able to proceed as friends while you transition.
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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2018, 08:34:33 pm »
You don’t even have to lie. You can just casually bring up something from the news about trans people, and see how your friend reacts.
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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2018, 08:37:39 pm »
Consider the options. If you tell this person the truth and they reject you, you will be no worst off that you will be when he eventually receives the truth about you.

On the other hand, if you tell the truth at first without testing him first and he accepts you, he will feel honored more because you have shown trust in his judgement.

It may not be wrong testing him but I feel the outcome could be better if you trust him at the start.
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Offline HappyMoni

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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2018, 08:34:19 am »
I have a thought on an alternative method to do the same thing. Your friend is religious, find a time to have an in depth conversation on religion. Have the conversation framed as a religious conversation about acceptance. You can include questions on accepting all kinds of things, other religions, sinners, gay people, trans people. You could make it more personal to your lives and ask questions like, "Well what if our friend, Fred, was gay or trans? Would you accept or reject him?" I think you will find a much more accurate idea of his views if your questions are formed on a personal basis rather than a general subject, impersonal basis. The conversation being about you learning about how he views things is honest and gives you cover in the sense that you are not the subject of the discussion. You can even give your opinion on accepting people and see if he is vastly differing of opinion.If he asks why you ask, just say you are curious or your saw a newspaper article or something, if you feel the need.
A word on religious people. I assumed they would reject me. I was dead wrong. It really didn't matter if someone was or wasn't religious in my experience. Then again, this isn't Bible Belt area.  Good luck Maria!
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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2018, 09:27:07 am »
Prior to going full time I didn't test or check anyone's opinions on the topic - regardless of religion or anything else.  I either told them or I didn't. 

My predictions were wrong with the people I'd known longer than anyone (my parents, who turned out to be completely supportive).  At that point I realized I'd spent a lot of time worrying about things when I should have been just moving forward with my life. 
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Online Alaskan Danielle

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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2018, 09:47:06 am »
Prior to going full time I didn't test or check anyone's opinions on the topic - regardless of religion or anything else.  I either told them or I didn't. 

My predictions were wrong with the people I'd known longer than anyone (my parents, who turned out to be completely supportive).  At that point I realized I'd spent a lot of time worrying about things when I should have been just moving forward with my life.

@Kendra
Dear Kendra:  Although my own situation with my family and my (old life) friends did not work out as well for me as it thankfully did for you, I still fully agree with the premise that you stated... about "testing or checking anyone's opinion on the topic."

Indeed .... worrying about things that you can't control is not being productive to moving forward with transition and life goals.

Thank you for sharing your wise advice and opinions....
Hugs,
Danielle


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Offline HappyMoni

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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2018, 10:46:16 am »
@Kendra
Dear Kendra:  Although my own situation with my family and my (old life) friends did not work out as well for me as it thankfully did for you, I still fully agree with the premise that you stated... about "testing or checking anyone's opinion on the topic."

Indeed .... worrying about things that you can't control is not being productive to moving forward with transition and life goals.

Thank you for sharing your wise advice and opinions....
Hugs,
Danielle


****NOTE:  By the way, your continuing effort to update your Avatar profile photo to even more and more beautiful and wonderful pictures of yourself is amazing and stunning to say the least.... @Kendra, you look terrific!!!!

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Not to argue with either of you Kendra or Danielle, but I think we should be mindful that everyone has different levels of confidence, and I remember the sheer terror of telling that first person. I think, especially for a young person, any way to dip that toe in the water to figure things out is a good step. Yes, so much of the things we worried about didn't come to pass, but any one of them could have. It is good for any trans person to seek out that first stable thing that they can count on. It is so important to find someone to be in your corner.
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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2018, 01:52:55 pm »
Earlier I had come out to friends but not direct family, and I had delayed transition due to the fear of forever alienating my parents.  Details at this thread from a year ago.  I had not imagined - not in my wildest dreams - 9 months later I'd be with my mother in a women's お風呂 (public bath) in Japan having used a crowded changing room together.  And my father saying at breakfast he wished they'd had a daughter all along. 

Techniques I'd learned in the past to deal with racial issues helped me tune out the noise from coming out socially.  I went to school in a small town (Arlington, Washington State) where many people despised any ethnic minority, especially one that was mixed-race.
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Offline HappyMoni

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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2018, 07:32:55 pm »
I agree with Kendra, Maria, I think she is saying how wonderful it can be to be your genuine self with those you love. It will surprise you how people will react, perhaps in both directions. Please find the way that is right for you to get there. Our society makes it tough on those who are perceived to be 'other.' In my opinion, it puts pressure on us to handle things differently than we would like. It bothers you to not be totally genuine with your friend. That is honorable on your  part. I wouldn't be too harsh on yourself considering how hard it is to find out the information you need. You sound like a good person.
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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2018, 09:12:57 pm »
Hi Maria,

I know it’s tough.  I’m in a similar situation myself.  I’m my case I come from a very conservative family and I have a transgender sister who came out a few years ago.  I’ve heard and still hear the negative comments regarding trans people.  They don’t yet know that I’m trans myself, so before I come out I’m asking questions in a general way and hoping that since time has passed, perhaps the shock has worn off since my sister’s coming out.  The bottom line is that I don’t have to tell them anything at all until I’m ready, and neither do you.  I encourage you to come out whenever you’re ready, whether it’s today, next year, or next decade.  As for myself, I don’t know when I’ll take the big step, but it won’t be a minute before I’m ready.  My coming out will be on my terms, not theirs.  I hope you feel the same way about revealing your true self.

I’m a Christian myself, and while I never condemned transgender people even before coming to terms with my own gender, but I was scared concerning faith and my own transgender identity.  Still, I know some other Christians that do condemn anything LGBT... etc., but all believers don’t. 
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Offline gracefulhat

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Re: Is lying (in this situation) wrong?
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2018, 10:00:42 pm »
Ok Maria, here has been my recent experience. I am surrounded by Christians, especially at work and I consider myself a Christian as well. So I recently was right where you are now. I am nurse and we recently had a transgender male patient. About 4 other nurses around me began gossiping about this precious person before they had even seen him. Infact, they assumed he was a she since they heard the word transgender (which I find interesting) and things were said such as, I think they are mentally ill, and they like to play dress up. There were other comments and it just so happened to be the day i was going to come out at work to them (my manager had known for a month). Needless to say this gave me a true sense of how people truely feel and it made me even more nervous to come out. Later that day when we got the patient, everyone was shocked that you couldn't tell he was transgender. He is a beautiful person and I made sure that I personally took care of him after surgery. We befriended and a week later met up at Panera Bread for lunch. A week after that it was leaked to the entire hospital that I am trans, but it was ok because I had already prepared myself for it. Now, the nurses who had said something about the trans patient I'm sure felt horrible. I spoke with all the girls individually and assured them that I would keep things professional, that I know everyone has strong opinions politically and spiritually on the matter, but that's ok as long as we can be nice to one another. In return everyone around me thus far have neen supportive. What I relized was that there's a difference between theory and practicality. People have ideas in their heads about things, such as being transgender. Christians may have thoughts such as being transgender is a sin. And those remain firm as ideas until.............. they know someone personally who is transgender. That changes everything. Most people only know about trans through things like Fox News, but when it's actually flesh and blood, and someone you have a friendship with then that changes everything. So, I think your Christian friend will be ok. However, he will go through the stages of grief and there may be a period of turmoil or silence. So even if you ask the question and you don't get a good response, it will probably not be his final oppinion, but rather you will be the one to open his mind in a positive way towards us. Okay, my 2 cents!
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