Author Topic: Randi's transition (in)decision  (Read 11225 times)

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Offline randim

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #200 on: May 17, 2020, 03:02:28 pm »
Randi first of all,  congratulations on the steps you are taking. 
I think alot of media communication environments such as you possibly mentioned contain so much "stuff" flying around that it takes bravery and fortitude to sift through it all.

The last part of your post seems like such a hard thing to try to do.  Trying to get others who have been close to you a long time to change his they address you. I personally don't even try.  Beyond maybe telling someone once, after that, I don't correct them ever.
However, i am not "entangled" in a situation where terms, names, or pronouns (hate that word!)  are being employed on a regular basis with the intent to hurt me.  I think this is what happens to you, and you're trying to survive here. 
This is not unreasonable to want some respect.  You have mine, and I wish you the best today.

Thanks Maddie,

Appreciate the good wishes.  Wish I were brave. It would make things simpler for sure.  But like the song says:

And there are things you can't avoid
You have to face them
When you're not prepared to face them


I think the biggest thing about the misgendering Kristin does is that it is an easy way to fool herself into think this is all just some passing phase, or something that can be compartmentalized and many of the basic contours of our relationship can stay unchanged. That doesn't strike me as possible.

Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #201 on: May 17, 2020, 04:33:33 pm »
Thanks!  I enjoyed that a great deal.  I must confess I have swiped the phrase myself. I think I did use it correctly, though it casts the coming of Randi as something sinister, which I hope is not the case.  But the potential cost, while perhaps not sinister, is high.
 
I've been listening to a Mary Chapin Carpenter song that speaks to me a lot.  The opening lines go:

Noises in my head and endless should-haves rain
On me like a storm, like a hurricane

Losses piled up like wood stacks stories high
Feels like I've been framed, I have no alibi


Some of that just reflects my natural bent towards melancholy, but some of it just the awful truth that I hurt some of  the people I love just by existing. To use a less genteel expression, it really sucks.

Randi, I had an English professor in college who asserted that melancholy is the most desirable human state. I too am often melancholic and I think anyone who lives with their eyes open is susceptible.

In the book, "Denial of Death," Ernest Becker argues that neurosis is a reasonable response to the human condition; By simply closing our eyes, we can imagine ourselves on the moon, which is God-like scope, but in the end, we're still worm's meat. It's an incongruity that can make one a little mad and you see the ubiquity of madness pert near everywhere, from the slow suicides of gluttony and inTOXICation to Americans not taking all due precautions in a crisis that's killing us at eight times the rate that Hitler and Tojo did.

When I was young, I fell in love with wild places. I still love them, but they were once my sanctuary, a place where no critter approached me as if I were male. Today's gender reveal events are a big deal because it prepares relations and friends to approach the coming baby. It tells them exactly how to touch and talk to that person. In the woods, a bear or deer doesn't give a scat about gender and so that was my safe place.

I could have lived a genderless life there and been happy, but I couldn't live a wrongly gendered life and be happy. I don't think you can either. You will need some FFS and some more HRT, but your petite shoulders will be hugely helpful, for a person's frame is how we gender them at a glance. 

I'm glad you enjoyed "No Slouch." I too love to quote literature and the essayist makes one a little hesitant to do so, but I'll keep quoting and hope you do too.

Offline RandyL

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #202 on: May 17, 2020, 10:09:16 pm »


... the awful truth that I hurt some of  the people I love just by existing. To use a less genteel expression, it really sucks.

Randi dear, don't be so hard on yourself. Yes, we can cause pain in others, but the love and caring outweighs that in most cases... And surely in yours.

Only if somebody doesn't care about or love us can the pain outweigh the good.

My wife finally convinced me of this after a number of suicidal ideation episodes on my part. I felt like everyone would be better off if I wasn't around. I felt worthless and like a drag. She showed me how she, our children, my siblings, would never recover from this.

Our existence is valuable to all whom we know and love. Hugs, Randy

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Offline randim

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #203 on: May 18, 2020, 06:09:20 am »
Thanks Randy,

Sweetest person on Susan's is a tough competition, but you're in the mix for sure.  Very sorry you went through such a rough patch, but glad you came through it.  Hoping you and your wife keep moving forward.

Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #204 on: May 18, 2020, 07:25:12 am »
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My wife finally convinced me of this after a number of suicidal ideation episodes on my part.

Whew! I'm sure glad she convinced you and she was right.

Offline randim

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #205 on: June 05, 2020, 09:59:14 am »
Hi all to the ever dwindling Susan's population and the hardy pioneers on xxxxxxxxxxx.  It's been a while and I feel the need to babble a bit.  I had a very difficult therapy session yesterday.  Difficult because I was discussing asking for a trial separation from my wife.  It's almost unimaginable, but more and more it seems to be on the tip of my tongue, and it's killing me.  Whenever she smiles, or we exchange some pleasant trivial banter, or we get together with one or more of the children in the familiar family way, my heart just breaks knowing the storm that is coming.  It breaks multiple time a day.  And the barometric pressure just .... keeps .... dropping. The limbo of being 90 percent in the closet and 10 percent out is just killing me, and I can't see a way forward in my current environment.  Wish I could.  Wish I could believe she could change, could adapt, could love me for who I am and not who she imagines or wants me to be. But she really isn't doing any work on it at all.  It's like pulling teeth to get her to grudgingly agree to joint therapy, and on the times she has gone the sessions were very unproductive.  Yesterday I got some mail from my doctor addressed to Randi.  She came in and dropped it on the desk with a snarky comment.  Wore a very bland top recently.  Her disgust was palpable. And these are the tiniest of baby steps.  Don't feel safe or comfortable even having her see me in a nightgown. To have her gender me correctly, to see and support me walking out the door with lipstick, jewelry, feminine hair., just seems unthinkable.  And I need to do lots of that to figure out who I am, what I am in terms of gender.  Not impossible I might meander around to a pretty butchy old-person look, but it'd still be too radical for her tastes, I fear. 

And I realize anyone familiar with this thread and my earlier ones could be excused for yawning and thinking "Yes, yes, haven't we heard this a million times before?"  Certainly understandable. It has been a long, ongoing saga.  But it is feeling different, more like the alternatives have been tried and found wanting.  Just feeling more desperate I guess.  The final scene in the first Terminator movie has Sarah Conner determinedly driving into a storm.  Feeling a lot like that.  Cuz it is going to be a storm.  Cuz it is really, really, really gonna suck. I am fully anticipating the hardest times of my adult life for a while.  I fear that is the <not allowed> my path runs through. I am neither strong nor brave, and the moment is demanding of me both in abundance.  Goddess give me courage.

And on that cheery note.....

Let's turn to smaller things. 

Been dabbling a bit with twitter, especially trans twitter, picking up the occasional follower, getting trolled by the occasional TERF. Kind of interesting.  I mean, <not allowed> is going on in the UK?  That is really ground zero in the trans rights wars it seems. And it's really no-quarter-given trench warfare.  Kind of makes me wax nostalgic for the battles between feminists and men's rights advocates in my old USENET days.  Alt.feminism, soc.men.  Lot of virtual blood spilled there for no gain whatsoever. Seems quite familiar.

Electrolysis, laser: Want to get started back on beard removal.  Don't want to contact or spread the virus.  Difficult decision there. Maybe wear a mask and let her work under the chin and on the neck.  That area feels very grizzly and dysphoria-triggering, but I do so yearn to have the cheeks and area around the mouth cleared.  But can't work on that with a mask on.

Got about two weeks left at work.  I was going to retire in July but the company beat me to it and included me in the latest resource action.  Really not bad, since I get a severance package out of it. The drop in income makes the separation worse of course, but I guess there is a price to pay for waiting to transition till you have one foot in the grave.

Guess that is enough for now.  Thanks for reading.  Hoping all stay safe from the virus and political turmoil racking the states.







   
 

Online Northern Star Girl

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #206 on: June 05, 2020, 11:15:03 am »
@randim
Dear Randi:
I really wish that I had the words to help you in your present situation but it is your personal journey to work out in the best possible way for yourself and your family. 

All I want to do now is to give you a big heartfelt HUG... and wishing you the best in your future decisions and in your journey.

As always, I am wishing you success and happiness...  here on the forums there are many like-minded members that will lend you our ears to listen and our shoulders to lean on.


HUGS and more HUGS.... 
Danielle

                 
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A New Chapter: ALASKAN DANIELLE's Chronicles
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Offline RandyL

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #207 on: June 05, 2020, 11:31:19 am »
Hi Randi, I'm so sorry for the stress and uncertainty you are going through. I have my own difficult couples therapy session coming up soon. Sometimes sessions leave us feeling better and sometimes we feel triggered as a result. I hope your next step goes as well as possible. Hugs, Randy

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Offline randim

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #208 on: June 05, 2020, 12:36:50 pm »
@Danielle

Thanks dear.  I wish you had some words too! But your eternal kindness and concern is a blessing and a massive help in its own right.  Thank you so much.

@RandyL

Thanks so much.  I know you have marital challenges of your own, which you are doing an admirable job handling.  I wish you and your wife continuing good fortune and happiness. You are a sweetheart.

Offline Maddie

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #209 on: June 05, 2020, 10:15:54 pm »
Thank you for sharing all theses things going with you Randi.
Your job coming to an end must seem surreal, soon, if not already.

If you are driving into a storm, please keep me in your comm.

Offline randim

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #210 on: June 15, 2020, 04:48:00 pm »
@Maddie

Damn.  Missed your reply.  Guess I should come here more.  Many thanks.

@world

So what's new?  Some things, for sure.  Finally had a meaningful joint therapy session that wasn't just "But my husband wants to wear a dress." The downside is that this was sparked because my wife and I have had some serious discussions about separation, and we went over that a lot and kind of left it as trying to make our current living arrangements work better. But things are quite, quite fragile.

I had thought originally the progress in therapy would be helpful, but Kristin has been decidedly up and down ever since.  Lots of silences and arctic winds blowing in the house. As part of this, I also wrote and sent a coming-out letter to my sisters-in-law.  It was well-received, but I realize it does not really convey the depths of my dysphoria or what might come down the road.  Their replies to me and Kristin were so gendered -- male pronouns and such.  I don't think it's really crossed their minds that it is a lot more than jazzed-up cross-dressing.  Though to be fair, they aren't really up to speed on trans issues.  I'm sure they don't know how much they don't know. And part of that is that I have been so reluctant to step up and claim a female identity and ask to be treated as a transwoman and be referred to with female pronouns and such. It's just so hard for me.

And Kristin continues to cling to me being satisfied with androgyny like a shipwreck survivor clinging to anything that floats. I think when she thinks of me as something more femme is when the talking stops and the temperatures drop. I have even toyed with the idea of getting a dress and doing high femme just to show it to her and let her see her nightmare made flesh, even though that isn't me (really much more a tops/pants/flats kind of girl). But I do think such an action might be relationship suicide.  But maybe this is just a zombie relationship that should end anyway.  I'm sure not making her happy.  Goddess know I'm not happy.

Wasn't lying in my last post.  It hasn't started raining yet, but the clouds are ominous, and I just feel so, so stuck, so, so ugly, like I'm not making any progress, though some things are changing for sure.  I don't know.  I need to be braver and stronger than I've ever been about anything, by wide margins, and it  doesn't really come naturally to me. People-pleasing and don't rock the boat are more my style, but I don't think that is going fly here. I hate the thought of hurting anyone, but I don't know that there is a way around it.

And here I shall offer the observation I did long ago.  Who knew that being trans would help my sex life so much?  I am well and truly <not allowed>.


 


Offline Emma1017

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #211 on: June 15, 2020, 08:20:40 pm »
Randim I am sorry I haven't been here for you.  I have gotten so myopic that I forget that others have it even worse.  We both have this vulnerability that allows love and the fear of losing love win over a need that, at least for me, is unstoppable.

I have finally acknowledged, through a lot of assistance here that my need is not a choice.  It's survival and it is our right.  Our spouses have a choice.  They may not like it but at least they have one.

Gender dysphoria is a real, medical need and we should not have to justify much less apologize for something that happened before we were born.  We did not make it up.  I truly am sorry it happened.  I am truly sorry that it is forcing a difficult decision on our spouses.  It is absolutely not fair but it is better than suicide or a lifetime of repressed anger and depression.  It has taken a long time for me to come to terms and I am still not there yet.

Our spouses feel pain and have a right to be sad but we are the primary victims, they the secondary ones. 

I feel your hurt and pain.  I truly hope for both of us that all this pain is just a short term price for a lifetime of happiness.

Massive hugs,

Emma
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Offline Maddie

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #212 on: June 15, 2020, 09:01:04 pm »
What's a sex life ...? ;)

My unsolicited (and unmarried) opinion Randi...
I think you should do more of the tops/pants/flats GIRL thing.
Express what you are.
Now.
If you are risking relationship suicide, please don't do it over the top in a way that's not you.
You're not being dramatic.  You're being honest and real.
If you express yourself as true as possible to your heart, that is best.

The other people's pronouns may take a long time or never.  People have alot of "reality evidence" and interpersonal history tipping their scales to their default reality.  Compress your expectations (meaning raise your lowest expectations and lower your highest ones).  Expecting too much too soon may be unfair. 
I think you are fair.

Offline randim

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #213 on: June 15, 2020, 09:46:35 pm »
@Emma

Thanks Emma. You are very kind. And it truly isn’t a choice, unless it’s a choice between existing and living. The heart wants what it wants. Insatiable little thing it seems. Getting more interesting. Kristin has forwarded the coming out letter to a number of her friends. Said I wanted out of the closet. Careful what you wish for. 🙃

I know you’ve agonized over this forever. I so hope you can move past that. It’s not a way to live. A word of warning though, these roads can lead through the fire. May that not be the case for you.

Massive hugs and love to you Sis.

@Maddie

Wow. That’s a lot of wisdom there. And you’re right. I need to be real. Truthfully, I think being real risks relationship suicide just fine without any added drama.

Pronouns and honorifics don’t mean that much to me right now, though I do realize I am noticing it more.  I am pretty undemanding there. And believe me, my expectations for how I will be received are low. Probably too low. Hope so.

Realize I’ve drifted away from the boards some. Hope you are doing well. Last I heard you had quite a lot on your plate. I’m pulling for you girl. Many thanks.


Offline RandyL

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #214 on: June 15, 2020, 10:56:30 pm »


... Getting more interesting. Kristin has forwarded the coming out letter to a number of her friends. Said I wanted out of the closet. Careful what you wish for.

That's basically what happened to me. My wife needed support from family and friends, so I said go ahead and tell anybody you want to. Kind of freeing...

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Offline Jenny_Oh

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #215 on: June 16, 2020, 12:29:52 am »
The heart wants what it wants. Insatiable little thing it seems.

There are many ways to look at this question which often gets misinterpreted as selfishness.

My personal philosophy is one of authenticity, that to act otherwise is bad faith. You can excuse lying to other people, but lying to yourself is the worst form of deception that just leads to misery (just go to any AA meeting  ;D ).

Another way to look at it is that we are often told to "Love your neighbor as yourself", which implies that self-love is a necessary step before we can love others.

In other words, it is essential to be true to yourself, to love yourself for who you are, trans queer or cis, straight bi or gay. Only then can you completely love those around you and be fully there for them. Far from being selfish, transition is an act of love.
    

Offline randim

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #216 on: June 16, 2020, 09:09:44 am »
@RandyL

That is what I told her two years ago, and she has confided to a couple of close friends, but never to her sisters and such a wider audience.  I'm still processing that.  Her sisters have responded with extremely loving and supportive letters.  Quite touching actually.  They are very kind and decent.

@Jenny_Oh

I agree with that sentiment completely. Sometimes though, things can't be advantageous for both parties. Or at least it feels that way.  But yes, being the best version of you is never a bad thing.

Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #217 on: June 16, 2020, 11:16:37 am »
Quote
Kristin has forwarded the coming out letter to a number of her friends.

I spent two years studying and teaching power dynamics in groups and after a couple raped friends confided what had been done to them and how the gossiping their rapes triggered felt like further violation, I spent time thinking about why rape and gossip can register as emotionally similar. Here's what I concluded:

Both involve penetration of intimate space. The rapist almost always targets the crotch and the gossip frequently does. Both happen without consent. Both rapists and gossips can pretend that they've achieved an intimacy with their victims. Both acts are about exerting control over another person.

My point is that gossip is often a deal breaker for me. I have ended relationships over gossip. 

Offline randim

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #218 on: June 16, 2020, 11:36:02 am »
She had my permission to forward it, and the people she sent it to are very close friends.  I don't mind.  I am sick of walking around my great secret like I have all my life. It is kind of scary though.  What will they think of me?  What will they think of me if/when they see me dressed? I guess we'll find out.

And you know, it would be tough to keep this in total confidence.  Let's face it, this is plenty juicy.

Offline Wendi

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Re: Randi's transition (in)decision
« Reply #219 on: June 16, 2020, 12:19:42 pm »
She had my permission to forward it, and the people she sent it to are very close friends.  I don't mind.  I am sick of walking around my great secret like I have all my life. It is kind of scary though.  What will they think of me?  What will they think of me if/when they see me dressed? I guess we'll find out.

And you know, it would be tough to keep this in total confidence.  Let's face it, this is plenty juicy.
I found it rewarding once I told people as did my  wife. It was easier for me to go out dressed as I felt liberated.

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