Author Topic: The end of TERF arguments is insight  (Read 230 times)

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Offline Alice (nym)

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The end of TERF arguments is insight
« on: December 08, 2018, 05:07:48 am »
It won't be long now before the first transwoman receives the same...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46438396

But for those who engage the TERFs in battle... pay particular attention to: "The recipient had Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser syndrome, which affects about one in every 4,500 women and results in the vagina and uterus (womb) failing to form properly."
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Offline Dietlind

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Re: The end of TERF arguments is insight
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2018, 12:48:24 pm »
It won't be long now before the first transwoman receives the same...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46438396

But for those who engage the TERFs in battle... pay particular attention to: "The recipient had Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser syndrome, which affects about one in every 4,500 women and results in the vagina and uterus (womb) failing to form properly."
I think it is a pretty long ways away for most trans women.  One cannot forget that most of our biology is still that of a male.  We neither have the proper pelvic cavity and skeleton arrangement, and we also have not the blood vessels in place to supply a womb with the blood needed.
Most of us need all kinds of surgery to get the outside appearance of a female, but our inside is as male as our outside, and to change the inside is way more complicated than changing the outside.
One shall not forget that the woman mentioned in this article was a cis woman with some genetic problems!

Some intersex women (MtF) have been found to have a womb and ovaries that are very tiny and shrunk.  Those women have a better chance to undergo such a transplant and possibly grow a baby in it.
I am intersex, I do't know if I have small internal female organs, but even if I had them, my pelvic are seems to be more male than female, and I would not know how a baby could grow inside of me, just because of sheer space needed!
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Offline Lisa89125

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Re: The end of TERF arguments is insight
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2018, 08:17:49 pm »
I've wondered the same about my self. Things are smaller than they should be down stairs. Would be kinda cool if I did have really tiny female parts hidden inside.

I am waiting for ovaries to be a possibility. Our hormones would be more naturally regulated if own body made and controlled their production.

Lisa


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Offline Dietlind

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Re: The end of TERF arguments is insight
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2018, 08:43:58 pm »
I've wondered the same about my self. Things are smaller than they should be down stairs. Would be kinda cool if I did have really tiny female parts hidden inside.

I am waiting for ovaries to be a possibility. Our hormones would be more naturally regulated if own body made and controlled their production.

Lisa
The chances that you have tiny girls stuff down inside you are there, for the case that you are an intersex person.  Which means, the connecting "lines" should be in place, too.  But is you need a transplant, you still would have to take anti rejection drugs for the rest of your life.
You would exchange one drug for another!
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Offline Lisa89125

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Re: The end of TERF arguments is insight
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2018, 10:41:01 pm »
It's possible.

The way around the anti rejection medications would be for the parts to be designed from our own biological materials. Sadly I think this technology is years off.

It would be nice to be able to give birth to my own child. However, Without the correct vessels and nerves I don't think we could actually feel any of the pregnancy. That just bothers me in more ways than one. I want to feel all of it. Including the pains of giving birth. Too bad we can't have our pelvic areas made wider and the missing pieces added and linked up. How would the brain reprogram I wonder?

Lisa


I'm sharing my story in hopes it helps someone else in the future.

"My inner self knows better than my outer self what gender I am"

Not yet quite ready to post my real self.

Offline Dietlind

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Re: The end of TERF arguments is insight
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2018, 11:04:54 pm »
It's possible.

The way around the anti rejection medications would be for the parts to be designed from our own biological materials. Sadly I think this technology is years off.

It would be nice to be able to give birth to my own child. However, Without the correct vessels and nerves I don't think we could actually feel any of the pregnancy. That just bothers me in more ways than one. I want to feel all of it. Including the pains of giving birth. Too bad we can't have our pelvic areas made wider and the missing pieces added and linked up. How would the brain reprogram I wonder?

Lisa
I think the brain is the least of the problems, it can learn pretty fast, and is very flexible.  Once it gets the inputs, it will learn fast what to do with them.  The input lines would be there is you would have either of the tiny female organs embedded inside you.  I see the biggest problem with the skeleton structure of the pelvic area in males.
It might work with kids who get estrogen and testosterone blockers before puberty hits.  The kids might develop a ore feminin pelvic area.  Some intersex persons may have enough room there, too.  But I am for sure not one of them!
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Offline dee82

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Re: The end of TERF arguments is insight
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2018, 11:25:39 pm »
Alice, interesting atricle, but using this news item to combat the TERF viewpoint is a double edged sword.

Plenty of cis women never give birth and are still 100% woman. Why should it matter whether I give birth or not?

Even if in the future a trans woman gives birth, it will not make a TERF look any more favourably on the average trans woman like myself, who will never have such an experience.

I don't want to validate their narrow point of view that being a woman is about biology and specific experiences that result from that biology.

~Dee

Offline Michelle_P

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Re: The end of TERF arguments is insight
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2018, 01:43:02 am »
I doubt that this will have any impact on the trans-exclusionary arguments that try to reduce being a woman to biological essentialism.  Such definitions are doomed to fail.

My anatomy is typical of a woman post-hysterectomy with cervical closure. My blood chemistry is that of a post-menopausal woman on long term hormone replacement therapy.

Attempts to define a woman in terms of a walking uterus are actually rather degrading in my humble opinion.  The whole biological essentialism thing is absurd.

I’ve heard enough of these arguments to know how incorrect and very hurtful they can be to women born with vaginal agenesis, uterine agenesis, other uterine disorders, genetic or epigenetic issues, prenatal chemical or drug exposure damage (DES and other hormone disrupters!), and related issues that result in chronic amenorrhea, sterility, and related issues.

A woman is still a woman in spite of these issues.

A woman unable to give birth is still a woman.

A woman who has had a complete hysterectomy with cervical closure is still a woman.

A woman unable to nurse an infant is still a woman.

What make one a woman is not the presence or absence of certain genetalia at birth, or the presence or absence of specific physical details.

Gender identity is set in the brain, before birth, very likely in the growth of a variety of neurological structures we know correlate strongly with the sense of gender identity in men or women.  The trans-exclusionary definitions of a woman will continue until this is accepted.
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Re: The end of TERF arguments is insight
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2018, 02:00:07 am »
Sorry if this bursts anyone's bubble:

Selection criteria for the UK research programme operations

Patients should be aged between 24 and 38 years old (or 40 if eggs were frozen before 38)
Patients must be eligible for NHS care.
No significant medical problems.
BMI <30kg/m2.
Able to live in the UK as a resident for as long the grafted uterus is in-situ post operatively.
Has a long-term partner.
Has own ovaries and eggs (i.e no donor eggs).
Fluent in the English language.

Women who cannot join the programme at the current time include those who:

Have previously had children.
Had previous major abdominal or pelvic surgery.
Had previous severe endometriosis.
Had cancer less than five years previously.
Had a history of psychiatric illness involving hospital admission.
Require donor eggs or sperm.
Have insufficient embryo quality or quantity, <10 satisfactory embryos.
Do not qualify for NHS care.

http://wombtransplantuk.org/everything-you-need-to-know-about-uterine-transplantation

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