Author Topic: Sexual orientation?  (Read 7456 times)

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Offline Linde

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #160 on: February 12, 2019, 09:55:16 pm »



My concern in writing this is that @Linde seemed to be troubled by not being attracted to men.  I am not entirely sure of all their details, but one thought I had was that perhaps they were trying to ‘force’ an orientation change, which isn’t a great idea.

Michelle, I would not want to say that I am troubled, but I would not mind to b e interested in men and women, just simply because the pool of possible partners is way larger this way.  This is a rational desire! I really would love to be Bi!  But I really tried very hard (and still will be trying), but I can find nothing of sexual desire in a man, in fact, I dislike the idea to be with a man.

I don't know if my rational thinking can be called trying to force an orientation change, but whatever it is, it does not work!
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Offline Michelle_P

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #161 on: February 13, 2019, 12:05:38 am »
Linde, I know that you rationalized that you ‘should’ desire men so as to increase your dating pool.  That is fundamentally trying to change yourself to please and attract others.  I see no problem with that if this change is helping you to fulfill your own gender orientation as well.

Changing against our own nature to meet needs or expectations of others is not something I would do, knowing what I know now.

When we are faced with a need to change ourselves, we have to ask ourselves why.  Do we need to change to fulfill someone else’s needs or wants?  Or is this change something that we need to do, for ourselves?  Would we be changing to be accepted by others, or by ourselves?  Does that change bring us closer to our authentic selves?

There is change that we engage in for self-improvement, to try and make ourselves or the world around us all better. Then there is the sort of change that doesn’t really help ourselves, but changes us to meet the expectations of others.

When I was a little girl I sometimes would do or say things that made others uncomfortable with me. The sort of friends that I had, the things I liked to play with, the other girls who were my friends, even the way I moved bothered other people.  Others wanted to change me, make me into something that I simply wasn’t.

You see, as a little girl I happened to have some male anatomy.  This sort of mismatch makes me what is now called a transgender person.

Eventually, pressure from my parents, my peers, and our religious leaders forced me to change.  They wanted me to be a boy, a young man, something that was far outside of what I could be.  I learned instead how to hide myself, and pretend to be a young man, suppressing parts of my expression and emotional life, exaggerating other bits, to become an unpleasant, emotionally distant, and angry person.  These changes were good enough, and I was declared to be a proper young man, cured.

This was that bad sort of change, changing myself into something I wasn’t.  It let me live, sort of.  I was in fear of slipping, of being discovered hiding behind that persona.  It turns out that over time, living in hiding, failing to live as ones authentic self, will corrode one’s soul.

After a half century, I cracked, then shattered.  That finally let the light in.

I’ve spent the past three years going through another change.  This was a change I wanted and needed to do.  It was change for myself, to improve myself and truly cure what had ailed me, a good sort of change.

I picked up the pieces.  I discarded the bits that didn’t fit, and rediscovered my emotionally complete self.  I let my core personality out to grow, and flourish.   I kept other, useful bits from that old persona.  I’m a woman who is not afraid to use power tools, or work with Maxwell’s Equations.  I filled in the cracks with gold.

With this change, I feel that I have done something positive for myself.  I feel vastly better for this.
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My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
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Online Kirsteneklund7

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #162 on: February 13, 2019, 04:18:50 am »
I am really saddened by this especially coming from someone I like and think highly of. I would never try to tell anyone who they should or should not desire. I would defend your right to be attracted to whomever you like. I feel bad that anyone made you or anyone else feel bad about their choice of partners. So, when I know that others and myself have seen orientation change through transition and I feel so totally dismissed and told my situation does not exist, it makes me feel very sad and hurt. I respect if people desire men or women. I wish that my situation would receive a bit of respect as well. I am listing your post although it is not my intention to single you out. Time after time it seems that orientation change is met with dismissal. It seems more important for people to state and restate and restate again, their experience instead of even trying to understand or support someone who is different. I have posted over 3000 times on here without a negative thumbs down. I have tried to offer support to others in any way I can on this site. You can consider this my first thumbs down if you like, but it is not an attack, it is not hostile. It is an expression of being hurt. It is an expression of not being listened to when I was having a hard time. I could have used a bit of support. So, if it is anyone's desire to bash me for this, I can't stop you. The saddest thing is some young person who experiences what I have, will find a community here that dismisses what they are experiencing and it might really hurt them. Maybe I just need to move on.
Moni
I gained a lot of insight from your posts Moni!
I am only early in transition.
Orientation change with transition  obviously happens a lot. I know transition puts us outside the tribe of men.
A trans womans social dynamic and physical reality naturally  cultivates the possibility of romance with the masculine species
 Thanks to your posts and Beverlys I have some understanding of how the romance dynamic can really change.

 Yours truly, Kirsten.

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« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 05:18:56 am by Kirsteneklund7 »
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Offline pretty pauline

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #163 on: February 13, 2019, 07:04:08 pm »
It is still extremely hard for me to imagine that I ever would want to climb into a bed with a guy!  I have to retune my brain to be able to do that!
But I think that's the whole point, our brains do retune, nobody is more surprised than ourselves. Before transition and before I had SRS, I could never imagine myself going to bed with a guy, it was ugh! But that all changed after transition, now I go to bed everynight with a guy, my husband, I would never have done this before transition, and hubby is a very  masculine, muscular, alpha male, sweaty and hairy guy, he crawls into bed completely naked beside me, this would never have happened in a million years before transition, but we do rewire and hunky husband does make me feel very feminine and spoils me like a princess which is nice and reassuring for me as a woman, if you can understand that.
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Offline HappyMoni

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #164 on: February 13, 2019, 08:43:42 pm »
Just spend an hour writing a response here and it went poof. Screw it its bed time.
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
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Offline Laurie

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #165 on: February 13, 2019, 11:35:36 pm »
  Maybe I am too young in my transition to express my opinion here in this thread. But to heck with it I am going to do it anyway. First however I have another opinion to render for two friends of mine. Reading these last couple of pages I have seen what I am sure are misunderstandings and unintended hurts. One made an observation that gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things. She then went on to try to explain that gender ID does not necessarily drive sexual orientation. She tried to say that sexual orientation is what it is for each individual. She said that due to social pressure or expectation some try to change their sexual orientation to align with those pressure or expectations and that doing so does not usually work out because the reason does not meet with their own internal sexual orientation. What ever our internal sexual orientation is, it is the right one for us whatever it my be. I agree with that. However, I believe where the misunderstanding and subsequent hurt comes from it that the narrative does not take into account that sometimes (fairly often from what I've seen) as our transition progresses, as we change our bodies, or minds undergo changes also. Along with these changes our sexual orientation can also change. Some of us find that our sexual attraction either expands to include more possible partners or it can change 180 degrees going from attraction to females originally to attraction to males. This too is normal and good as long as we change for our own reasons. I think both parties meant well but I think what we had here was a failure to communicate between friends. I sure hope it is over.

  Now for my personal experience with the subject. I have always preferred women as a partner. I have always enjoyed being with and taking with females more than males. I felt more comfortable with females and enjoyed their company. It took me a very long time to discover the reason behind this preference was because I am a woman. I really wish that I had understood this so many decades ago. Perhaps I would not have ruined the lives of those I loved by think I was a deviate and a pervert or at best mentally ill for doing things I could not stop. instead of being able to treat others as I wanted too I mistreated them because I was always angry mostly at myself. Anyway I was attracted to women. I like to think this is my sexual orientation. They are who I want to be with for sure. But is it my sexual orientation? I honestly do not know. This thought could ruin my love life which I am currently happy with. But the truth be told I have never had much sexual desire. I can't say I have ever lusted after a woman. But neither have I lusted or been sexually attracted to men. In fact the thought of having a boyfriend turns me off. I have been excited by porn. Male on female or more specifically a man with a pre-op transsexual. Of course I was that transsexual. That was always my fantasy. Even at that The man didn't matter who he was he had a piece of anatomy I was interested in. Nothing more. The pe-op transsexual was important because she of course more like me. I would be just as curious if I was post op then I could relate better to a female. I would then be closer to my movie surrogate. Now days my libido is so low I don't think I have a sexual orientation. I feel inadequate, useless. I guess that means I would be asexual. Beyond my old fantasies, I think I may have always been. I do know love. I have always known love and love hurts. I have always hurt those I have loved and I have been hurt by those I loved. I am in a relationship now with someone who loves me and I love her but I am afraid I will end up hurting her in the end and I do not want that. I hate when I hurt those I love.
  Oh hell all this rambling amounts to this. I am a woman. I love women. But I think I am asexual. I am also still messed up in my own head so take everything I wrote with a huge grain of salt.
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Offline HappyMoni

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #166 on: February 14, 2019, 05:17:04 pm »
Wow, what is this world coming to when Laurie starts to make sense to me. Ugh!

I wrote out a long post last night, trying to clear things up point by point. It really was professionally written, in triplicate, double spaced, a real work of literary art. You should have been there. And then it was gone! So rather than try to recreate a masterpiece, I will just move on a bit with a brief clarification and a wish for the thread.

I am not upset with you Michelle. Or anyone! Yes a nerve was struck in a misunderstanding. Let me state for the record that no one should have pressure to be who they aren't. I am deeply saddened that anyone was hurt by people trying to 'mold' them. I think it is pretty much agreed that gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things. I think it is clear that some people change orientation through the process of transitioning. Pauline, thank you for speaking up. So, even though they are different things, there is a relationship between the two. For some, fixing gender does not change orientation. For others, it does. For some it is a good thing, for others it is a difficult thing. And yes, for some, it is perhaps less important to their lives if they tend to be more asexual. (Or is it?)

The boring disclaimer now out of the way, this is my hope for this thread. I would hope we could all be respectful of each other. (No fingers pointed in that statement, okay!) I would hope that once we explain where we stand in our own lives, that we move beyond the self proclamation. In other words, add to the discussion by going a little deeper. I will be vulnerable here and state that I could have used someone asking why me changing orientation has affected me so negatively. For my part, I could ask if someone has seen pressure or been tempted to experiment or just say I'm sorry to someone who has had a rough go of things. I think the thread is more interesting if we are a little more imaginative, plus, through a deeper discussion, we learn things. I could sure use some learning, some support. Maybe one day I'll be smart  enough to help someone else. So, there it is!

If this poofs again, I'm gonna be pissed. I'm gonna blame you Laurie! lol

Moni
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"Moni" is pronounced like "Bonnie"

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

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Offline Linde

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #167 on: February 14, 2019, 08:38:37 pm »
I could ask if someone has seen pressure or been tempted to experiment or just say I'm sorry to someone who has had a rough go of things. I think the thread is more interesting if we are a little more imaginative, plus, through a deeper discussion, we learn things. I could sure use some learning, some support. Maybe one day I'll be smart  enough to help someone else. So, there it is!

Moni
I don't feel pressured (it is nearly impossible to pressure me), but I feel a little tempted.  Today I tried to give this temptation a chance.  I was at a Valentines luncheon /dance event of a local organization, and a really nice looking gentlemen asked me for a dance.  We danced a  few dances, and I enjoyed this, including the relative harmless conversion.  Back at my table i started to imagine if I could "do" anything with this guy, and the thought did not feel very comfortable.  He came back and we danced a few more dances, and again, I enjoyed the dancing and our conversation.  But back at the table I felt more and more that I want to stop it now, because I would not want to promise him anything which I can't give.  And I was pretty sure at that point that I could not have anything else with him, but some pleasant conversation.  When he asked later for my phone number I told him that I would not want to meet him again.

My gearing simply does no work into that direction!
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Offline HappyMoni

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #168 on: February 15, 2019, 04:12:00 pm »
I don't feel pressured (it is nearly impossible to pressure me), but I feel a little tempted.  Today I tried to give this temptation a chance.  I was at a Valentines luncheon /dance event of a local organization, and a really nice looking gentlemen asked me for a dance.  We danced a  few dances, and I enjoyed this, including the relative harmless conversion.  Back at my table i started to imagine if I could "do" anything with this guy, and the thought did not feel very comfortable.  He came back and we danced a few more dances, and again, I enjoyed the dancing and our conversation.  But back at the table I felt more and more that I want to stop it now, because I would not want to promise him anything which I can't give.  And I was pretty sure at that point that I could not have anything else with him, but some pleasant conversation.  When he asked later for my phone number I told him that I would not want to meet him again.

My gearing simply does no work into that direction!

Linde, I love this. You opened yourself up to a new experience and took it as far as you were comfortable. It was also an experience where you learned something about yourself. I really admire that. I have never been asked to dance by a guy yet. I think I would be nervous. Did it made you nervous at all?
Moni
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
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"Moni" is pronounced like "Bonnie"

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

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Offline Linde

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #169 on: February 15, 2019, 04:20:33 pm »
Linde, I love this. You opened yourself up to a new experience and took it as far as you were comfortable. It was also an experience where you learned something about yourself. I really admire that. I have never been asked to dance by a guy yet. I think I would be nervous. Did it made you nervous at all?
Moni
Not really!  I am pretty confident and assertive (if you had to deal many decades with surgeons, of whom many are real divas, you lose your fear), my biggest fear was how would my ankles work, it was the fist time that I danced on 2" high heels!

I will try it several times over again to deal with guys, because I really would love to be Bi!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 12:03:10 am by Dietlind »
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Offline MeTony

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #170 on: February 15, 2019, 11:42:09 pm »
This is an interesting topic. I am bi today. It is exciting to see if it changes on hormones.


Tony

Offline Payten

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #171 on: March 29, 2019, 02:30:28 pm »
I’ve always considered myself a biromantic grey ace. Hormones have had no affect on my sexuality (been on them over a year now). If anything I’m more atteacted to women now than I was brfore (I’m MtF). There’s definitely possibility of me being gay post-transition. Right now I’m sort of avoiding sex/relationships in favor of focusing on myself. Also, dysphoria can affect sexuality, and does in my case.

Offline WutLolz

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #172 on: March 29, 2019, 02:41:29 pm »
Bisexual

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Offline Alaskan Danielle

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #173 on: March 29, 2019, 02:47:19 pm »
Hmm, this is a great thread subject regarding Sexual Orientation....
When I first started transitioning I asked myself that question many times, talked it over with my therapist at the time, and came to the conclusion is to just follow my heart without concern for the gender of my possible romantic affections. 
I do not want to label myself as Straight, Gay, Bi or anything other than a trans-full-time-woman.

Of course that is easier said that done for an MTF like me that transitioned in my mid-30's.   I thought to myself that I would never kiss a male or be more romantically involved with a male but once I relocated here as a full-time woman I have developed mutual romantic feelings with both males and females... I have dated both and have done the kissing and petting things with both... with great enjoyment I may add.   

At first it was strange to me to hold hands with, date and/or kiss a male but I got over it after the first few seconds!!!
 
Right now my main romantic interest is my Dental Hygienist Suitor #4 and she is very sweet on me and has no problems with my past.  I also have 2 other active suitors vying for my attention... one male and one female and they have no problems with my past. 

Many of those romantic details about my dating activities and my suitors are in my old "Hunted Prey" thread especially around springtime and summertime last year in 2018.

My best advice that I would give if I were asked for it... is what I first stated... ignore the gender and go with following your heart.

Wishing  you all well,
Hugs,
Danielle

Offline GingerVicki

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #174 on: March 29, 2019, 04:09:06 pm »
Hmm, this is a great thread subject regarding Sexual Orientation....
When I first started transitioning I asked myself that question many times, talked it over with my therapist at the time, and came to the conclusion is to just follow my heart without concern for the gender of my possible romantic affections. 
I do not want to label myself as Straight, Gay, Bi or anything other than a trans-full-time-woman.

Of course that is easier said that done for an MTF like me that transitioned in my mid-30's.   I thought to myself that I would never kiss a male or be more romantically involved with a male but once I relocated here as a full-time woman I have developed mutual romantic feelings with both males and females... I have dated both and have done the kissing and petting things with both... with great enjoyment I may add.   

At first it was strange to me to hold hands with, date and/or kiss a male but I got over it after the first few seconds!!!
 
Right now my main romantic interest is my Dental Hygienist Suitor #4 and she is very sweet on me and has no problems with my past.  I also have 2 other active suitors vying for my attention... one male and one female and they have no problems with my past. 

Many of those romantic details about my dating activities and my suitors are in my old "Hunted Prey" thread especially around springtime and summertime last year in 2018.

My best advice that I would give if I were asked for it... is what I first stated... ignore the gender and go with following your heart.

Wishing  you all well,
Hugs,
Danielle


Solid gold response. Follow your heart. But don't forget to bring your head along with it.

Offline Linde

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #175 on: March 29, 2019, 04:26:08 pm »

At first it was strange to me to hold hands with, date and/or kiss a male but I got over it after the first few seconds!!!
 
Wishing  you all well,
Hugs,
Danielle

I think this is my main hangup with man.  This anti gay thing is so deep embedded in my brain from my male days that I seem not to be able to shed it.  It almost seems that in this small corner of my sexuality, I never stopped to be a guy!
I don't know what to do bout it!  In addition to this is my dislike and fear of any anal action, and dating a man could lead to this.  To avoid this, I just made it up my mind that I don't like guys!

I know, i pretty screwed up, but why should my mind be different than my screwed up body!  They fit to each other pretty well!
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Offline Alaskan Danielle

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #176 on: March 29, 2019, 06:36:17 pm »
Solid gold response. Follow your heart. But don't forget to bring your head along with it.

@GingerVicki
Excellent point, it should be very obvious that we need to use our head and good judgement but there are times that the heart can block some of the signals from our heads.   
The heart and the head need to work as a team....
...resulting in common sense and passion working together in a delicate balance.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this....
Hugs, and best wishes,
Danielle

Offline KimOct

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #177 on: March 29, 2019, 07:04:21 pm »
I will echo Danielle's great point about follow your heart.

My orientation shift has been interesting.  Part of it is conflicted by my body dysphoria.  I feel comfortable being openly trans - It is how I have lived my life for the last few years and I am VERY visible.  I bet at least 500 people see me a week. 

But I am not OK enough with my face and body for ME.  I can't imagine being in any way sexual with either cis men or cis women.  I feel like my body is in between.

Regarding my orientation though I do find myself attracted to some men.  I never did before - at all.  It wasn't repressed and I wasn't fighting it - I just didn't feel it.  Now I do somewhat. 

I find women more attractive still but I definitely find myself attracted to some men.  But I can't imagine them treating me sexually like a woman.  Orchie only and small breasts.  I think this is my last hurdle to deal with.
The first transphobe you have to conquer is yourself

Offline HappyMoni

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #178 on: March 30, 2019, 06:23:49 am »


Regarding my orientation though I do find myself attracted to some men.  I never did before - at all.  It wasn't repressed and I wasn't fighting it - I just didn't feel it.  Now I do (somewhat.  )


This struck a cord with me. (Wow, agreeing with Kim twice in one week!) I was never attracted to boys when I was young or men later, before my transition. It was not like I sat there going "Look at that guy! No, no, mustn't have such thoughts! Danger, danger!" No, there wasn't an attraction. I always had crushes on girls. Post transition, I am attracted to guys. Can't freaking believe it, but that is where I'm at. Recently I saw a beautiful woman in a gorgeous dress. Guess who had a crush on the dress.
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)
"Moni" is pronounced like "Bonnie"

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

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Offline Linde

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Re: Sexual orientation?
« Reply #179 on: March 30, 2019, 09:06:02 am »
This struck a cord with me. (Wow, agreeing with Kim twice in one week!) I was never attracted to boys when I was young or men later, before my transition. It was not like I sat there going "Look at that guy! No, no, mustn't have such thoughts! Danger, danger!" No, there wasn't an attraction. I always had crushes on girls. Post transition, I am attracted to guys. Can't freaking believe it, but that is where I'm at. Recently I saw a beautiful woman in a gorgeous dress. Guess who had a crush on the dress.
Well, I would have a crush on the dress and the woman wearing it! >:-)
As I said several times, I wish I would feel anything for men!  I like men OK, in a social setting, much the same as I liked them as I was a man myself, but that is it. I don't even know what is considered to be a good looking guy, and what is not so good looking (OK, I can identify hugely guys, as well as I can identify hugely women).  I am absolutely guy-clueless!
Were you attracted to guys already prior to bottom surgery?  I sometimes wonder whether me not being interested in guys is kind of a protection because of my extreme phobia about anal stuff, and might go away once I had surgery?
I wish life would not be that complicated!
Feb 2019, bi-lateral orchiectomy
June 10, 2019 Not enough Y chr detected to be male






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