Author Topic: Is honesty the best policy?  (Read 1231 times)

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Offline Anne T

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Is honesty the best policy?
« on: December 29, 2018, 02:10:15 am »
Hi all,
I hope this is the right place for my question. I'm very new here. My spouse recently told me that he's transitioning. It's all very new. I go to a Pentecostal conservative church where I teach a bible study. Because I've been place into a leadership position which brings a certain amount of trust in me on my pastors part. Do I need to tell them about this life event? We would really like to keep this within the bounds of our marriage. And yes, there are two affirming churches near by yet I have roots in this church.

Anne T
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"
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Offline Chloe

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2018, 06:33:15 am »
         Anne I regularly attend a very "casual/accepting" church nearby that advertises "no purfect people allowed" (yea that's certainly me!) and while I present as very "femme" still dress as nominally "male". You sound as if both of you are "older" with spousy on HRT only 4 months is dress/clothing the only way she can currently express/let out an identity yet bottled up inside? Having been married w/kids and on HRT for years am not a big fan "confessions" would hate to see one (or both) lose God's Good Grace within your community church.

      Well, am still waiting for the topic of "transgender" to arise in mine, perhaps one day I'll play an instrumental part, but in meantime feel that just sharing a "gender variant persona" would be a good start toward the education of the otherwise unwashed & intolerant masses in general?

(ps: Head minister knows of my "gender issues" due to a rather tumultuous divorce 8 years ago (we're once again together btw) if you feel discussion/support is needed I would confine any disclosures only to people you know and trust! I also belong to a small Weds night 'mens only group' although (lol) don't feel many issues discussed really apply to me! ;) )

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"But it's no use now," thought poor Alice, "to pretend be two people!
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Offline Jaime320

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2018, 07:05:11 am »
No need to disclose. Unless you both feel led to. Outing your SO without consent would be a bad move. Your Situation doesn’t break any safe sanctuary policy. Therefore keep between yourselves.

Offline KathyLauren

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2018, 07:19:11 am »
Definitely do not tell the church people about your spouse unless he asks you to.  There is no reason that he needs to tell them before he is ready.

Honesty means no lies (except when necessary for safety); it doesn't mean full disclosure. 
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly, beginning full-time; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2019-10-18 Phone consultation for GRS; 2020-03-11 GRS!; 2020-09-30 New birth certificate




Offline Anne T

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2018, 12:32:58 pm »
         Anne I regularly attend a very "casual/accepting" church nearby that advertises "no purfect people allowed" (yea that's certainly me!) and while I present as very "femme" still dress as nominally "male". You sound as if both of you are "older" with spousy on HRT only 4 months is dress/clothing the only way she can currently express/let out an identity yet bottled up inside? Having been married w/kids and on HRT for years am not a big fan "confessions" would hate to see one (or both) lose God's Good Grace within your community church

Kiera,
   You are correct that we are older and spouse started HRT 4 mos ago. I think I need to explain what I meant by bottled up inside. For our entire marriage he had this huge side of himself that was surpressed. The pain, frustration, sorrow and probably shame kept deep below the surface every day for years. And the freedom to express the feminine side and to talk about it with me has done wonders for my spouse. I can see the difference.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"
                                                       ~John Lennon

Offline Anne T

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2018, 12:41:41 pm »
Definitely do not tell the church people about your spouse unless he asks you to.  There is no reason that he needs to tell them before he is ready.

Honesty means no lies (except when necessary for safety); it doesn't mean full disclosure.

My spouse has given me permission but says it's very unlikely they would attend there with me. Which made me sad. 

Currently I have no plans to tell anyone without my SO's permission. We have talked about it and agree to keep it between ourselves.

I like how you put it : Honesty means no lies (except when necessary for safety); it doesn't mean full disclosure.

Thanks for the advice
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"
                                                       ~John Lennon

Offline Moonflower

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2018, 07:43:46 pm »

Hi all,
I hope this is the right place for my question. I'm very new here. My spouse recently told me that he's transitioning. It's all very new. I go to a Pentecostal conservative church where I teach a bible study. Because I've been place into a leadership position which brings a certain amount of trust in me on my pastors part. Do I need to tell them about this life event? We would really like to keep this within the bounds of our marriage. And yes, there are two affirming churches near by yet I have roots in this church.

Anne T
My spouse has given me permission but says it's very unlikely they would attend there with me. Which made me sad. 

Currently I have no plans to tell anyone without my SO's permission. We have talked about it and agree to keep it between ourselves.

I like how you put it : Honesty means no lies (except when necessary for safety); it doesn't mean full disclosure.

Thanks for the advice
Wow! What a challenge! What an uncomfortable position for you, Anne, to be in such a trusted position of authority in a Pentecostal conservative church, and the loving wife of a trans person. You might find this video inspiring    It's about a conservative Baptist minister learning about trans people.

As Kiera wrote, your own "coming out" in your church community could be an incredible journey,  but don't rush it. Make sure that you are feeling strong enough to handle any consequences. Make sure that you have realistic, positive expectations. Think about how you'd like them to respond, and what you can do to increase the chances of such responses. But for now, I recommend easy baby steps. You're in a whirlwind.
:icon_wave:
1999 married :icon_archery:
15 years ago I started discovering the woman hiding behind my husband's facade
Fall 2018 my baby's coming out full time! Hello BlueStar!  :icon_female:
BlueStar beginning HRT

Offline Anne T

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2018, 08:29:44 pm »
Quote
Wow! What a challenge! What an uncomfortable position for you, Anne, to be in such a trusted position of authority in a Pentecostal conservative church, and the loving wife of a trans person. You might find this video inspiring    It's about a conservative Baptist minister learning about trans people.

Wow. What a powerful video! That's exactly what I needed to hear! Thank you for sharing that with me. 

And as Kiera suggested I will take baby steps. I'm feeling a little more at peace about it all and hopeful.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"
                                                       ~John Lennon

Offline Moonflower

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2018, 08:56:42 pm »
Anne, I'm glad that you found it so helpful. The world is full of inspiring people. May you see how inspiring you are.
:icon_wave:
1999 married :icon_archery:
15 years ago I started discovering the woman hiding behind my husband's facade
Fall 2018 my baby's coming out full time! Hello BlueStar!  :icon_female:
BlueStar beginning HRT

Offline Linde

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2018, 09:38:59 pm »
Anne, it so depends on the individual people in the church, and probably also on the denomination of it.  My niece is a Methodist Pastor, and one of my strongest supporters.  She used my case for a ceremony on a Sunday, to tech understanding and tolerance to her parish, and to tell them that all of us the children of God, and that he loves all of us.

You might be lucky, and have an understanding pastor as my niece is one, one never knows?


Offline Anne T

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2018, 10:00:38 pm »
Anne, it so depends on the individual people in the church, and probably also on the denomination of it.  My niece is a Methodist Pastor, and one of my strongest supporters.  She used my case for a ceremony on a Sunday, to tech understanding and tolerance to her parish, and to tell them that all of us the children of God, and that he loves all of us.

You might be lucky, and have an understanding pastor as my niece is one, one never knows?

Yes, I think the denomination may matter greatly. I used to work for the United Methodist Publishing house. Everyone was very affirming there. But it didn't matter to me because at that time it didn't impact me in any way.how wonderful that you found a safe place to worship. I've heard my Pentecostal church say many times God doesn't make mistakes.  That's how they view it.  I'll continue to take the matter before the Lord. Who knows maybe I'll be the seed that changes a few hearts.

I'm thinking I'm going to take Kiera's advice....full disclosure is not necessarily needed.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"
                                                       ~John Lennon

Offline Janes Groove

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2018, 10:47:14 pm »
 Is honesty the best policy?

Generally speaking yes.
But before speaking someone once said to first ask oneself:
1. Is it true?
2. Is it kind?
3. Is it necessary?

Offline Anne T

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2018, 11:14:15 pm »
Is honesty the best policy?

Generally speaking yes.
But before speaking someone once said to first ask oneself:
1. Is it true?
2. Is it kind?
3. Is it necessary?

1. Yes
2. Can be
3. No

But you made a good point
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"
                                                       ~John Lennon

Offline Moonflower

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2018, 08:41:01 pm »

Thank you for the update! That was fantastic! I get so excited when a non-trans person "gets" it. Especially a person in a trusted position of authority in a conservative community. I'm glad that you found this article. Thanks for sharing it with me. It feeds my hope for a kinder world.




<quote removed by moderator>
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 03:22:35 pm by Jessica »
:icon_wave:
1999 married :icon_archery:
15 years ago I started discovering the woman hiding behind my husband's facade
Fall 2018 my baby's coming out full time! Hello BlueStar!  :icon_female:
BlueStar beginning HRT

Offline Anne Blake

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2018, 10:05:48 pm »
Hello Anne,

Each of us must do what we feel is right. Here is how my partner and I handled our "church situation". This is what we did, not what you should do.

I was an elder at our conservative evangelical church, the church we had been attending for 32 years. My partner was in a position of leadership in a multi denominational bible study group. She had been a leader and teacher for many years. When I realized that I was transgender and needed to transition, I came out to my head pastor. Becoming an elder required a commitment to be open and truthful about any parts of our lives that might effect the function or image of the church. I was asked to leave my position and it was suggested that I leave the church. My partner really enjoyed her teaching position but found that as we became less judgmental and more inclusive, our view of Christ's love grew but began to conflict with the teachings of the bible study leadership. She chose to be open about her change of theological views and was asked to leave her teaching position. She chose to leave the church as well. After some searching we found an incredibly accepting and inclusive new church family and our faith and beliefs have grown leaps and bounds. In short, we felt a need to be open with our old church leaders and were asked to leave. We left and found a new family.....this does not happen often nor for many in our community.

Please make your choice with a lot of thought and prayer, it may very well cost you your church family. Both my partner and/or I would be quite open to share pm's with you if it might be of help.

Tia Anne

Offline Gertrude

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2018, 01:54:08 pm »
Just a question: what’s more important: the relationship with your spouse or church? This has an impact on your decision as you may have to choose depending on which one is more important.


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Offline Anne T

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2018, 03:14:02 pm »
Just a question: what’s more important: the relationship with your spouse or church? This has an impact on your decision as you may have to choose depending on which one is more important.


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Good question...I'd have to say God, Spouse then church.  Church is really just a part of our relationship with Christ and not the most important part of that relationship. I will never lose my relationship with God nor my spouse. Churches are social and fluid;subject to change. Even belief structures can change within a church over the years.  Walking away from a church will be sad and a loss but it can done. I made a vow to God when I became born again, a made a vow to my spouse when we married but I never made a vow to a church.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"
                                                       ~John Lennon

Offline Gertrude

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2018, 04:28:23 pm »
Good question...I'd have to say God, Spouse then church.  Church is really just a part of our relationship with Christ and not the most important part of that relationship. I will never lose my relationship with God nor my spouse. Churches are social and fluid;subject to change. Even belief structures can change within a church over the years.  Walking away from a church will be sad and a loss but it can done. I made a vow to God when I became born again, a made a vow to my spouse when we married but I never made a vow to a church.

My question was between the church and your spouse as those are the two competing interested here. I just think the consequences of choosing the church could lead one down the road of having to throw your spouse under the bus to belong. On the other hand, choosing your spouse may mean moving on to a different church eventually or having to hide as it were, which has it's own consequences. Some people seek social acceptance as their highest or higher goal and some seek relationships with individuals as such. It's up to you.

GingerVicki

Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2018, 06:21:14 pm »
Honesty is always the best policy unless:
1) you are in front of the judge and he or she doesn't know you did it
2) significant other doesn't know you did it
3) the boss doesn't know you did it

just sayin'

Offline Anne T

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Re: Is honesty the best policy?
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2018, 07:03:53 pm »
Honesty is always the best policy unless:
1) you are in front of the judge and he or she doesn't know you did it
2) significant other doesn't know you did it
3) the boss doesn't know you did it

just sayin'

😂
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"
                                                       ~John Lennon

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