Author Topic: What are you listening to your music on?  (Read 712 times)

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Offline Jessica_K

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What are you listening to your music on?
« on: May 11, 2019, 03:35:26 am »
Hi Girls and Guys

I am currently listening to some Sting on my system and was wondering what are others here listening on

So start the ball rolling and without boring details my system is pure analog, vinyl, all valve (vacuum tube) amplification and floor standing speakers

Jessica xx

Offline CynthiaAnn

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2019, 06:52:48 am »
Hi Jessica, sounds like you have a nice audio system there. I have a few turn tables here (German dual) and solid state stereo (Yamaha) floor standing speakers. I also have tube audio amps for guitars (they work great for reproducing), and all manners of speakers and such. We have a 1958 classic "Hi Fi" here made by Hoffman (tube), it's like a piece of furniture with beautiful wood cabinets (2), with FM / AM tuner and Gerrard turn table that plays our 78's  :) Mostly however I listen to music when I am at the computer here in head phones (always over ear). It keeps me sane, when I have to work, like this morning.... (I am on call).

Enjoy the Sting (he is great) Jessica

Cynthia -
kindness is love nurturing your soul....

Offline Shay9999

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2019, 10:53:15 am »
I'm lame. Earbuds with my phone, or my computer. My computer has a television screen as the display, so the audio from it is about as decent as televisions can get. I used to have a really nice sound system where I could feel the bass in my feet, but I had to lose it when I moved out of my house. Back with the family, have to be extra quiet.  :-\
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Offline AnneK

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 12:15:14 pm »
Quote
pure analog, vinyl, all valve (vacuum tube)

Why do so many prefer distorted music?  When you consider turntable rumble, microphonics, surface hiss, frequency and dynamic range limitation, vacuum tube thermal noise and more, by the time you get through your analog system, you've added a lot of noise and distortion to the sound.  The best vinyl cab produce about 65 dB of dynamic range, compared to 96 dB for CD quality.  That's over 1000x the range, from softest to loudest, of vinyl.  Also, due to inertia in the cutting lathe and pickup needle, you get nowhere near the frequency range of CDs, that can approach 22 KHz in some systems.  Please note, I am not talking about compressed formats, such as MP3, which tend to be "lossy" and lose some detail.

I also recall the direct to disk and 1/2 & 1/4 speed masters, of many years ago, to get around the limitations of vinyl.  Of course, we can't forget about tape hiss and wow & flutter, when talking about analog master tapes.

There's a term called "transfer function", which compare s the input and output for fidelity.  Many years ago, a manufacturer of transistor amps created one with the same transfer function as a tube amp.  The audio purists couldn't tell the difference.  Now, amps built with bipolar transistors, as earlier ones were, will tend to generate odd order harmonics, compared with the even order with vacuum tubes.  Even order tend to be more pleasant to listen to than odd order.  However, later amps are built with some type of FET transistor, which has similar characteristics to vacuum tubes and therefore create similar even order harmonics.

I am also aware that in the early days of transistor apps, some things were done that did cause unwanted artifacts.  This might have been the cause of people preferring tube amps as, back in that day, they were better.


At the moment, I'm listening to some MP3s on my tablet, but that's only casual listening.  If I want to really listen to music, I put on CDs on my main system.  Incidentally, I have both vinyl & CD of much of my music.  There's no way the vinyl is as good as CD.  The laws of physics, etc., get in the way.
I'm a 67 year old AMAB who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.

Offline CynthiaAnn

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2019, 12:23:30 pm »
I also recall the direct to disk and 1/2 & 1/4 speed masters, of many years ago, to get around the limitations of vinyl. 

I have Boston's first album on half speed mastered vinyl, cost a bit more back then.

Of course dynamic range of digitally mastered music is way better today, but back in the 70's that vinyl kicked some serious booty, it still does (for certain things). There is a resurgence of vinyl collectors today, especially 20 somethings...

C -
kindness is love nurturing your soul....

Online Kalandrina

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2019, 12:30:23 pm »
I have my alexa keep me company while on treadmill.

In the lounge i stil prefer vinyl to play 80's rock
This ain't a song for the broken-hearted
No silent prayer for the faith-departed
I ain't gonna be just a face in the crowd
You're gonna hear my voice
When I shout it out loud
It's my life
It's now or never
I ain't gonna live forever
I just want to live while I'm alive
(It's my life)
My heart is like an open highway
Like Frankie said
I did it my way
I just want to live while I'm alive
It's my life


Offline AnneK

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2019, 12:34:42 pm »
I have Boston's first album on half speed mastered vinyl, cost a bit more back then.

Of course dynamic range of digitally mastered music is way better today, but back in the 70's that vinyl kicked some serious booty, it still does (for certain things). There is a resurgence of vinyl collectors today, especially 20 somethings...

Back in the 70s, digital audio was becoming more popular on the phone network, as it was clearly superior to analog for several reasons.  I don't think digital audio appeared for music, until the mid '80s or so, with CDs.  Of course there was no such thing as MP3 etc. back then.  I understand the collectors, for things such as cover art, etc., but for music quality, there is simply no comparison, with digital much better.  On the other hand, some people prefer the distortion of vinyl & tubes.  We see the same thing in photography, where they'll deliberately change the image characteristics, to obtain a desired effect.
I'm a 67 year old AMAB who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.

Offline Jessica_K

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2019, 06:13:42 pm »
Why do so many prefer distorted music?  When you consider turntable rumble, microphonics, surface hiss, frequency and dynamic range limitation, vacuum tube thermal noise and more, by the time you get through your analog system, you've added a lot of noise and distortion to the sound.  The best vinyl cab produce about 65 dB of dynamic range, compared to 96 dB for CD quality.  That's over 1000x the range, from softest to loudest, of vinyl.  Also, due to inertia in the cutting lathe and pickup needle, you get nowhere near the frequency range of CDs, that can approach 22 KHz in some systems.  Please note, I am not talking about compressed formats, such as MP3, which tend to be "lossy" and lose some detail.

I also recall the direct to disk and 1/2 & 1/4 speed masters, of many years ago, to get around the limitations of vinyl.  Of course, we can't forget about tape hiss and wow & flutter, when talking about analog master tapes.

There's a term called "transfer function", which compare s the input and output for fidelity.  Many years ago, a manufacturer of transistor amps created one with the same transfer function as a tube amp.  The audio purists couldn't tell the difference.  Now, amps built with bipolar transistors, as earlier ones were, will tend to generate odd order harmonics, compared with the even order with vacuum tubes.  Even order tend to be more pleasant to listen to than odd order.  However, later amps are built with some type of FET transistor, which has similar characteristics to vacuum tubes and therefore create similar even order harmonics.

I am also aware that in the early days of transistor apps, some things were done that did cause unwanted artifacts.  This might have been the cause of people preferring tube amps as, back in that day, they were better.


At the moment, I'm listening to some MP3s on my tablet, but that's only casual listening.  If I want to really listen to music, I put on CDs on my main system.  Incidentally, I have both vinyl & CD of much of my music.  There's no way the vinyl is as good as CD.  The laws of physics, etc., get in the way.

Yes on paper a CD should wipe out Vinyl but many of the attributes of the CD are also it’s downfall. They are linear encoded 16 bit that means for quiet passages there are few bits left so most good players upsample so further removing the recording away from the source with a computer deciding what the bits are. Also the 22k abrupt filter and anti-aliasing filters screw up all the phasing. This makes the simple filters in a good phono amp pale into insignificance. And the frequency response of my cartridge is 15Hz to 50kHZ far greater than the CD.

I get the opposite experience my vinyl sounds better than the CD though will say the turntable and phono amp is about £6k and the CD player only £1, the sound is so much more musical, open sound stage life like compared to a harsh clinical sound from the CD. The trend is to add a valve stage after the decoder in high end CD players to stop the harshness

I am not against digital recordings far from it almost all recordings are now digital masters it’s just the very flawed standard CD

I also attend regular listening sessions of high end audio and get to hear both digital streaming and vinyl. Last one I was at the best in house was a £2.5k solid state phono driven by a £10k turntable. Think it proves it is not the vinyl media that lets it down for a lot of people but the cost of the kit to get the best out of it. Final note the most expensive turntable I have heard is a £200k clearaudio inc arm and pickup. Did it sound good yes was it worth it no (I preferred the Kronos at £35k lol)

Jessica xx

Offline AnneK

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2019, 10:00:45 pm »
Quote
Yes on paper a CD should wipe out Vinyl but many of the attributes of the CD are also it’s downfall. They are linear encoded 16 bit that means for quiet passages there are few bits left so most good players upsample so further removing the recording away from the source with a computer deciding what the bits are. Also the 22k abrupt filter and anti-aliasing filters screw up all the phasing. This makes the simple filters in a good phono amp pale into insignificance. And the frequency response of my cartridge is 15Hz to 50kHZ far greater than the CD.

One thing you're missing is those bits are on a logarithmic scale, not linear.  This means each bit is 6 dB different from the next.  Also, power is voltage squared, so each bit is 4x the power of the next lower.  This gives better reproduction at the lower levels.  As I mentioned, the CD dynamic range is 96 dB, which is about 1000x that of the best vinyl at about 65 dB.  The studio equipment is also capable of better than the 16 bits used for CDs.  This reduces the quantizing distortion, during production.  The way around the abrupt filters is to over sample, at 88 KHz or more, vs the standard 44 KHz.  This makes filtering much easier.  I also remember those analog claims about frequency response well beyond human hearing.  The Harmon Kardon receiver I had years ago was pretty much flat from DC to 200 KHz, IIRC.  One problem the low end caused was the amp wasn't able to filter out the very low mechanical noise frequencies.  You'd never be able to hear 50 KHz and the laws of physics prevent those frequencies from even being recorded, unless 1/4 speed mastering was used.  The cutting lathes simply couldn't keep up otherwise.

One thing to bear in mind is that a CD can contain a virtually perfect copy of a vinyl recording.  You can't claim the same going the other way, as the frequency response and dynamic range aren't there to support it.


BTW, you mention the simple filters in the phono amp.  That would be the RIAA equalization curve that's used to overcome the surface noise by increasing the recorded level of the higher frequencies.  On play back the equalization reduces both the recorded higher frequency levels and the noise level.



I'm a 67 year old AMAB who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.

Offline Lisa89125

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2019, 10:21:33 pm »
When I was younger dad had a large collection of 8 track tapes and cassette tapes. The 8 tracks were a pita to keep running and the silver splicing tape got to be impossible to find. A good vinyl record can have as good or better than CD audio. The difference is the type of phonograph being used to play the record. Without the background noise from tape or vinyl some of the older music doesn't sound right.

For fun here is a look at some Soviet made audio equipment. Most of it looks very well built. https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/klingon-hifi-made-in-ussr-during-the-cold-war.432394/

Lisa

"My inner self knows better than my outer self my true gender"

Offline AnneK

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2019, 05:53:14 am »
Quote
A good vinyl record can have as good or better than CD audio. The difference is the type of phonograph being used to play the record. Without the background noise from tape or vinyl some of the older music doesn't sound right.

All else being equal, it's physically impossible for vinyl to have better sound than a CD, though some early CDs didn't sound as well as they could, as they weren't mastered properly.  Also, as I mentioned earlier, many people actually like the distortions caused by vinyl, as you show with your comments above.

I certainly remember the 8 track days, but fortunately never had one.  I started with reel to reel and moved to cassettes.
I'm a 67 year old AMAB who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.

Offline CynthiaAnn

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2019, 07:15:49 am »
I certainly remember the 8 track days, but fortunately never had one.  I started with reel to reel and moved to cassettes.

Had 8 track player in my first car, it was like there was only so much time between tracks and the producers had to decide where to fade out, change track, then continue the music on the next track, it was annoying for long songs  :(
kindness is love nurturing your soul....

Offline Lisa89125

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2019, 10:16:58 am »
All else being equal, it's physically impossible for vinyl to have better sound than a CD, though some early CDs didn't sound as well as they could, as they weren't mastered properly.  Also, as I mentioned earlier, many people actually like the distortions caused by vinyl, as you show with your comments above.

I certainly remember the 8 track days, but fortunately never had one.  I started with reel to reel and moved to cassettes.

AnneK, When CD's first came out they sounded horrible. Having grown up with tape it took me forever to get used to the lack of the background hiss on the CD's. Digital audio is always going to be superior over analog. I think for me, Its having heard a song on tape with the noise in the background and then noticing the total lack of noise in the CD recording.

I hope that makes more sense?

Cynthia, There is indeed only so many feet of tape that can be used between tracks. Long songs would have to fade out and then fade in after the tracks change.

Interestingly the 8 track style tape lived on in flight data recorders "Black Box". They also used them in the event recorders fitted to locomotives for crash investigations. I'd assume by now it's all hard drives nowadays.

Lisa
"My inner self knows better than my outer self my true gender"

Offline Jessica_K

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2019, 12:17:48 pm »
I know this is digging up an old thread but I needed to add a comment concerning vinyl vs SACD with evidence rather than just my words

I have always claimed that a good vinyl system could put perform CD even in its super SACD format and over the weekend I had an opportunity to with 15 others compare my turntable and phono stage (£10k) with a TAD Luxman SACD player (£12k) and no surprise to me everyone including the owner of the TAD agreed the vinyl sounded better.

Oh and there is no noise between tracks due to the stylus profile

Jessica xx

Offline Leesh

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Re: What are you listening to your music on?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2020, 03:46:05 pm »
I'm lame as well, I just have a Spotify account :P I use it everywhere. Phone, tablet, computer, TV, car.

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