Author Topic: "when being a woman or feminine is miserable: the fears of transitioning or not"  (Read 765 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Undead Cat

  • Neighbor
  • ***
  • Posts: 94
  • Reputation: +1/-0
  • Gender: Queer
So I found this text with I was browsing about gender issues and I would like to know if anyone here can relates or if we could have a look  into how social gender inequalities related to femininity or woman affects our lives:


"After a few years among Trans groups, feminist groups and transfeminist groups, I started noticing something regarding masculine privilege that I feel like it's not properly addressed and actually makes a lot of people miserable with gender discomforts.

 

We all may know that in the majority of patriarchal groups or societies, women , cis or Trans, gender conforming or gender non-conforming, have lives harder than men, as history tells, have been seen as objects, property,  shamed, used and abused, excluded, disrespected, there is in fact an gender imbalance or inequality  when it comes to life quality and I'm sure nothing of this is new to anyone reading this.

 

 

Taking that in consideration, here comes my point about how the discomfort of existing and living as a women or being/expressing feminine in a patriarchal society built by the manly perspective, actually this discomfort affects Trans and I'll explain based on what I've seen researching about it.

 

 

 

I know the Transgender spectrum is diverse and everybody is different but some people have stories in common, so I'm not talking about ALL Trans women nor ALL Trans men, just specific groups that I address that exist within these bigger groups of people.

 

-Masculine privileges and The fear of transitioning:

 

When it comes to the experience of being in identity a Transgender woman, many of them kept out from actually coming out and transitioning because these feelings of feminine discomfort that is so common among women, whether cis or not, because the social gender inequality I already mentioned above, and many of  these Trans women end up MAY having very harsh lives regretting being repressed In the closet , obligated to live pretending to be cis men in order to survive in many cases and not lose the social masculine privileges man usually have . Being a woman is already hard, not even being considered a woman at all, like in their case is even harder.

 

 

-Masculine privileges and the fear of NOT transitioning:

 

And when it comes to the experience of being in identity a Transgender man, the same feminine discomfort many cis women feel as they are raised in a sexist society, can be seen as one of the personal reasons for someone ended up discovering they are a Transgender man and transitioning made them more comfortable with having masculine privileges man usually have because living life growing as a woman or feminine may have been too hard to handle and left impacts.

Just like many Trans women regret not having transitioned for the same reasons of feminine discomfort, many people who identified as Trans man MAY regret having transitioned based mostly on these same reasons

(I believe there are lots of stories about afab people in the Internet who identified as Trans in a period of their life for similar feelings and reasons and ended up detransitioning after a deep critical look into their personal story.... well if they can detransition in the first place, which is also a VERY hard process and they may find themselves,  like the closeted Trans women above, stuck regretting living live  being readen and treated as men ) .

 

 

And to finish we come up to this:

 

What's I've been trying to point out is that, just because you dislike, hate or feel discomfort experiencing life with the identity of a woman or with femininity in general, this doesn't SPECIFICALLY make you a man or non-binary. Whether you were afab or amab.

 

 

I believe and i wanted to just warn that it's really very import for people who are struggling with their gender identity or gender expression to question and take a look deeply into their society and culture or the ones they were raised in and try to find how it actually impacts your existence , feelings, views and beliefs about gender before deciding to do any major steps in your life about it. Off course we can be really "gender criticals " without being sexists or transphobes. "
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 03:47:29 pm by Undead Cat »

Offline F_P_M

  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 598
  • Reputation: +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
I think it's far harder to be trans than to be female to be honest. I mean i've lived 33 years of my life as female and you know, wierdly enough I cannot say it's actually been THAT hard. Maybe i'm just really lucky, or i'm super oblivious but ultimately I just haven't really experienced a lot of the mysogyny that the media claims is out there.

it doesn't mean I don't think there's a lot of stuff that needs to change for true equality, but day to day life just... I dunno.. it's more like minor irritations than anything else. in my personal experience anyway. Not to say some people don't experience this nonsense but I dunno, day to day when you're just getting on with life, how often does the patriarchy really come up?

The idea of transitioning is scary not because of a loss of certain privilages (certainly i will lose certain female privilages personally) but because it puts a target on your head. Trans women especially are treated like <poo> not because they're women but becuase they're trans.

Now you could argue that the reason trans women get it worst is due to patriarchal nonsense and you might be onto something there. I mean ultimately it's the same principle that means that little girls are encouraged to enjoy typically masculine interests but boys are still chastised for daring to enjoy feminine things.
Masculine is seen by our culture as the goal, so you could argue that a woman transitioning to a man is seen as a "step up" by our society and thus fine while a man transitioning into a woman must have some ulterior motive because "no man would want to give up his privilage and superiority"
I mean it's insane, but it explains a lot.

And unfortunately trans women get it from both sides. Men are potentially dangerous and women are telling them they can't even pee in peace! I mean it's ridiculous.

But it probably is really hard to go from passing as male to suddenly being female and seeing a more obvious shift. You'd notice the inequality more I think because you'd be accustomed to certain privilages and free passes you suddenly don't get.
But i'd argue women have a similar thing. I mean, I can smile at babies and nobody calls me a wierdo or a pervert because I look female. I can smile and talk to women and they don't think i'm a creep. I can get away with sexist jokes too, or making sexual remarks and nobody bats an eyelid. I won't be able to do that when I am more masculine. Whoo eee, nope. It'll become utterly unacceptable and it's going to be a challenge for sure.

No it's not the same as "i now earn less and have less privilages than men" but there are still certain things I WILL for sure miss about presenting as female. And it's a very sad statement on our culture and how we regard all men as predatory and all women as victims. It's gross.

For me, the thing that makes me pause on the transition (and this is as afab) is the fear of endangering myself and my family. For me, personally, that is a BIG worry. I will no longer blend into a crowd so easily, i'll stand out, even if/when I pass i'll stand out because i'm married to a man. So even if i'm not clocked as trans, i'm gonna be clocked as gay, as will my partner and hate crimes against the lgbt community are at a terrifying all time high right now. It's a scary time to be lgbt frankly and the more I read about people getting stabbed for holding hands or beaten to a pulp for looking "the wrong way" it makes me think "can I just live like I am for a little bit longer?"

Gender privilages be damned, a more pressing issue is a loss of human privilages. Trans people are having so many rights eroded away, especially in the US, is it any wonder many are deciding it's not worth the risk?

And I honestly think most people are cautious enough to be able to detangle "I don't like gender roles/expectations/the trappings of this gender" from "I want to feel comfortable in my own skin" aren't they? Certainly i'd argue those of us coming into this later in life have had the time and experience to be quite introspective and ask ourselves "do I just not like what's expected of my gender?"

Certainly in my case i've never conformed to gender expectations anyway. I've been openly bisexual since my teens and overtly gender non conforming my whole life. Which is arguably easier when you're AFAB because little girls are ALLOWED to like trains and trucks and dinosaurs and stuff without people raising their eyebrow. I was raised fairly gender neutral and it's kinda wierd because I talk to people who grew up in the UK or the US and their childhoods seem so much more gendered than mine was. Maybe it's a culture thing, or maybe I was just really lucky but whatever the case my sex was never an issue till I hit puberty and then it was only really an issue to ME.

The closest thing i've ever experienced to gendered expectation really is being a parent and schools etc's expectation that "mum" is the one who's organised and on the ball and arranges everything (Yeaaaah that's not happening) and there's a great deal of expectation and dare I say it, competative "momminess" amongst other mothers and it's just freaking exhausting amd stressful.
But in that scenario what i've always found far more obvious (to me anyway) was the prejudice toward the DADS. "oh did daddy dress you today?" to the kid with their shoes on the wrong feet. "Oh you can tell daddy brought you in today" to the kid who's late. "oh is daddy babysitting?" when you mention you're going out for the evening alone. And that's always made me FAR more indignant.

So in my case given i've NEVER been feminine anyway and ferociously defend my right to express what little femininity I DO have as having nothing to do with my gender identity, i'm pretty sure it's not internalised mysogyny driving me.

I kinda get grumpy when people expect me to justify my gender identity with like little anecdotes about not conforming to gender stereotypes because ultimately, my interest in dinosaurs and trains is NOT in any way related to my gender, nor is my favourite colour or my enjoyment of spicy food or whatever. And in the same argument my enjoyment in dolls and my taste in jewelery is in no way invalidating my masculinity. Interests aren't gendered, they shouldn't be and it's silly to think they are so i'm cautious when exploring my childhood not to read too much into things like that which ultimately are just ME and my personality more than anything else.

The biggest thing for me is a sense of vuage discomfort in my own skin. But that's far harder to explain to people than "well you know, I never liked pink so I must be a boy" (hah if only it was that simple) I think a lot of trans narratives get boiled down to pretty vuage things because explaining gut feelings and this intrisic sense of wrongness is very very difficult. People understand the "I was never x,y,z" narrative far better, even if it really isn't very truthful or accurate. Were just reaching, grasping onto something solid(ish) so we can say "this! this right here! this is evidence!" because we constantly feel this need to justify ourselves and the self doubt is just... eugh.. crippling.

sorry, I ramble.

tl:dr - Anti trans sentiment I think is a bigger factor for not transitioning along with not being accepted within the group you identify with and feeling "othered" and being trans is more complicated than "I don't like masculine/feminine things so I can't be masculine/feminine"



Offline kkaas

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 35
  • Reputation: +1/-0
maybe im being overly simplistic about this but misogyny is rather self centered.  From my experience, cis-men get uncomfortable with anyone they cant imagine sticking their d*ck in.  there are a small minority that think it would fulfill their wildest dreams to have sex with a porn <transgender person>, but it rarely translates to any kind of long term relationship.  imho, porn has ruined men when it comes to what a relationship with a real woman (trans or cis) looks like!  It is impossible for the average woman to live up too the distorted image porn has inculcated in boys and men.  i transitioned at a large manufacturing company and misogyny is still there well and strong BUT because of the legal pressure towards diversity, men have become passive aggressive in their misogyny!  A large number of the men i work have no idea I’m trans and the few who do treat me the same as those who don’t, lol.  the misogynists are just as much of a d*ck to me as they are to other cis-women who are my coworkers.  my point finally is that trans men are regarded as “safe” and not less than men for cis-men is because they see a man (unless they see something visually that reminds them of femininity), and therefore they automatically don’t start thinking about sex.  cis-men are all about visual stimulation which is why they tend to freak with us trans women mid transition when we are the most visually awkward.  I know this is a generalization, there are always exceptions, never the less i think it is still good generalization.
Kristi


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Offline Undead Cat

  • Neighbor
  • ***
  • Posts: 94
  • Reputation: +1/-0
  • Gender: Queer
maybe im being overly simplistic about this but misogyny is rather self centered.  From my experience, cis-men get uncomfortable with anyone they cant imagine sticking their d*ck in.  there are a small minority that think it would fulfill their wildest dreams to have sex with a porn <transgender person>, but it rarely translates to any kind of long term relationship.  imho, porn has ruined men when it comes to what a relationship with a real woman (trans or cis) looks like!  It is impossible for the average woman to live up too the distorted image porn has inculcated in boys and men.  i transitioned at a large manufacturing company and misogyny is still there well and strong BUT because of the legal pressure towards diversity, men have become passive aggressive in their misogyny!  A large number of the men i work have no idea I’m trans and the few who do treat me the same as those who don’t, lol.  the misogynists are just as much of a d*ck to me as they are to other cis-women who are my coworkers.  my point finally is that trans men are regarded as “safe” and not less than men for cis-men is because they see a man (unless they see something visually that reminds them of femininity), and therefore they automatically don’t start thinking about sex.  cis-men are all about visual stimulation which is why they tend to freak with us trans women mid transition when we are the most visually awkward.  I know this is a generalization, there are always exceptions, never the less i think it is still good generalization.
Kristi


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro



I think this is the point the author was aiming for.

I still agree with it though in another point, the point of Trans-women not being considered women, but in many cases not even considered humans at all, what is commonly used as an excuse to discriminate if not even kill them.


summarizing:

Off course there's a huge problem with feminine gender expressions, it doesn't matter much if you're a fab or amab , man or woman, cis or trans there.

Offline Angela H

  • *
  • Posts: 152
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Female
I honestly haven't noticed that much of a difference in the way that people treat me. I think I pass pretty well; these days I either get gendered correctly at first glance or certainly after I open my mouth people see me as a woman. But I've mostly only seen upsides to the way I'm treated. People smile at me more, they talk more openly, they're less likely to be aggressive.

The only negative is that my sisters are much harder to get along with now. They treat me with way less respect than before. I guess I was benefiting from male privilege in this case which made them more deferential than they normally would be to one of their sisters. Meanwhile, my relationship with my brothers has actually improved. (Am I unconsciously being deferential to them now leading to less conflicts? They seem nicer but I can't put my finger on what changed...)

My perspective is probably not worth too much though actually, because I was a total introvert and shut-in before I transitioned so I really don't have much of a basis for comparison.