Topic: New article about how prenatal hormones determine the sex of the brain

[HughE]

A website called Hormones Matter have just published this article on my behalf:

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/synthetic-hormones-pregnancy-gendered-brain-development/

In it, I talk about the discovery 60 years ago that
a) the brain has a sex that arises during prenatal development and, once set, remains like that for life
and
b) the sex of the brain is determined by hormone levels during prenatal development, not by genetics.

The discovery became known as the organizational-activational hypothesis. I found a pair of slides illustrating one of the early experiments used to demonstrate it, involving manipulating hormone levels during the critical period for rat brain development (through castration or by injecting testosterone). Basically, what those experiments show is that you can produce male rats with female brains through castration at the appropriate time, or females with male brains. Similar experiments with similar results have been carried out on numerous other animal species, including Rhesus monkeys, which are one of the closest animal models to human beings.

Unfortunately, news of that discovery never filtered through to the world of medicine, where doctors have been giving pregnant women synthetic female hormones (estrogens and progestins) ever since WW2 ended, for miscarriage prevention and for various other medical reasons. In adult men, these drugs act as chemical castration agents, and the way they're administered causes the foetus to be exposed during the critical period for sex differences in the brain. Therefore you'd expect them to be producing male bodied people with female brains, which is certainly what seems to have happened with the earliest of them, the artificial estrogen DES. DES is no longer used, however I think there's a very real possibility it could be happening with the drugs that replaced DES, since they also are artificial female hormones, and also have testosterone suppressive properties in adult men.

[zirconia]

This was fascinating. Thank you...

[Nphrom]

I want to post here. There might be a better place but I joined this group to share this and this is almost a similar subject. My mother once told me I was born, "with milk in my breast". This is a rare phenomenon. I have found very little information about it online. It is colloquially called "witch's milk". There's a scientific name for it. When babies are born with witch's milk it is removed with a syringe. I could probably tell you which side it was on by the side that has had the more pronounced gynecomastia? not sure how to spell it. I have a theory that I am cross gendered because that milk is a strong solution of female hormones and as a newborn I was overwhelmed by it. Sounds a little lame putting it in writing. Does anyone have information on witch's milk. This is the first time I posted here or any similar forum so thank you for having me. Look forward to sharing more in the future of my life and experiences.

[Northern Star Girl]

I want to post here. There might be a better place but I joined this group to share this and this is almost a similar subject. My mother once told me I was born, "with milk in my breast". This is a rare phenomenon. I have found very little information about it online. It is colloquially called "witch's milk". There's a scientific name for it. When babies are born with witch's milk it is removed with a syringe. I could probably tell you which side it was on by the side that has had the more pronounced gynecomastia? not sure how to spell it. I have a theory that I am cross gendered because that milk is a strong solution of female hormones and as a newborn I was overwhelmed by it. Sounds a little lame putting it in writing. Does anyone have information on witch's milk. This is the first time I posted here or any similar forum so thank you for having me. Look forward to sharing more in the future of my life and experiences.

@Nphrom
Dear Nphrom
    You have a lot of good thoughts and questions in your first post here...  other members here will chime in and offer their thoughts regarding the issues that you shared.
    Please know that I am not trying to hijack your post and your questions and concerns but first I wish to Officially Welcome YOU to Susan's Place.
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    As you post here on the forums you will be able to exchange thoughts and comments with others that are experiencing many of the same things that you wrote about.
 
    This is the right place for you to be to find out what others may have to say that may have been in your circumstances and with your questions and concerns.
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[Northern Star Girl]

@Nphrom
Dear Nphrom:

If you feel so inclined please feel free to stop by the Introductions Forum to tell more members about yourself!
 
With more exposure to more members here you will be able to get more responses to your questions and concerns.

Wishing your well as you continue to be involved in the forums.

NOTE: Now, after all of this Greeting and Welcoming stuff, I will give you and everyone the thread back so you can get some answers from other members.

Again, Welcome to Susan's Place.
Danielle

[Rakel]

... Therefore you'd expect them to be producing male bodied people with female brains, which is certainly what seems to have happened with the earliest of them, the artificial estrogen DES. DES is no longer used, however I think there's a very real possibility it could be happening with the drugs that replaced DES, since they also are artificial female hormones, and also have testosterone suppressive properties in adult men.

DES was commonly given to pregnant women just after WW II.  In fact male babies born from 1947 to 1955, who know that their mothers took DES during pregnancy, have shown almost a 40% incidence of gender related issues. There are many more of us who do not know what their mother's medical history was, but we have to wonder what is the real overall rate of gender issues of any kind for people who were exposed to DES in the womb?

Since DES was not used since the 1970's, this does not explain the current situation for people with gender issues, but we do need to be aware of the consequences of environmental exposure.

[jaysonderulo]

this is interesting, did not know thsi at all!

[natasha]

I was born in 64 near Toronto Canada. From what I have found, DES was in very common use in that area. My mom had a miscarriage before me, and was obviously very worried about it happening again. My Dad has told me that she was on several medications during her pregnancy with me. Interestingly enough she also made it known to my dad that she was upset in having a "boy".  She turned out to be a pill popping drunk and I was pretty much brought up by my Dad. 

[Gema_Stowe]

This has been on my mind for a long time.

My mother has a pituitary adenoma which gave her Cushings Disease. She had her adrenal glands removed to treat it (at the time that was the only option) which resulted in her having Addison’s Disease prior to being pregnant with me in the UK in the early 1970s. She’s been on replacement steroids the whole time and I wonder if this may have had an effect in the womb.

[Allie Jayne]

My mother had a miscarriage before being pregnant with me, and my placenta attached close to the entrance of the Fallopian tube, so I'm fairly confident DES was used (during 1953). DES is said to have significantly increased the incidence of Gender issues from 1940's to the 1970's ( it was still legal to use in Australia until 1975 ) but it just exaggerated the hormonal extremes mothers still experience, and is also the cause of morning sickness.

So these hormonal fluctuations are shown to be the cause of the variations in trans brains which see the minute structure in the stria terminalis to be opposite that of the biological sex. There are no reliable figures of the incidence of trans babies, as many governments suppress numbers so they don't have to allocate funding, but most researchers seem to agree the incidence is somewhere around 2% (about the same as the incidence of red heads!)

Hugs,

Allie

Image courtesy of Harvard University

[Gema_Stowe]

I’ve been a bit scared in the past to look too closely at what treatment my mother received during her pregnancy, and I avoid understanding medical matters (unlike the rest of my family I’m not medically qualified).  So I am stumbling around here and no expert.

But the Adrenal Gland that was removed in my mother does seem to be connected to sex hormones
             <Link not allowed>
and so I presume she was prescribed replacement artificial hormones - I wonder if that could have included DES in early 70s UK when she fell pregnant. 

Gem

x

[milena]

Excellent Article and very informative.

[Anastasia]

I was born in 1968, at the end of DES's use. I know my mom had trouble carrying me. She always made it a point to tell me how my uncles (family friends, not related) would take her to a nearby cold water spring for her to relax in and calm things down so she didn't deliver early.. She made it clear on many occasions that she didn't take medication for it. I never had any thoughts or questions about DES,  so these seemed like odd, random statements. But I have wondered over the years if she did take DES.  Sometimes this scenario seems like a cover, as if establishing an alternate story. Although I know I should, I know I will never ask directly. If she did, she suspects what it may have/did do to me. It doesn't matter if I am the way I am because of genetics or DES,  I am what I am, and I am okay with who I am. (Just wish society was more okay with me).