Author Topic: Gun violence the new normal  (Read 2495 times)

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Offline Haley Conner

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Gun violence the new normal
« on: August 04, 2019, 10:58:59 am »
Yet ANOTHER shooting just today in Dayton, leaving 9 dead and 26 injured.  The shooters manifesto seems to contain racist rants against Mexicans.  Multiple people whom I attended HS with have now been present and in the line of fire during mass shootings.  That is how common it's become.  And the NRA is a spigot of fear mongering, sewing suspicion and discord and fear, all in the interest of firearm sales.  And the president himself is fueling the fear and hatred, and not addressing the problem.  I hope reason prevails before too many more people die.

Offline snbab

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2019, 11:12:23 am »
I hope reason prevails before too many more people die.
I too share your hope, however I fear it will continue for many years to come. Each time this happens the public as a whole becomes less inclined to view this as abnormal. Like you say the "new normal".
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Offline Haley Conner

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2019, 12:01:44 pm »
Another day, another crazed gunman on a rampage.

Offline AnneK

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2019, 12:21:35 pm »
As one who watches from across the border, I can't help wonder about how this could happen in a supposedly civilized society.  From my point of view, the problem seems to be from the gun rights crowd, who seem to think the problem to any problem, including gun violence, is more guns.  A very big part of that is the NRA, who are determined to get as many guns out there as possible.  Not too long ago, they were suing Seattle, to stop the city from bringing in gun safety laws.  This is from an organization that was founded to promote gun and hunting safety.  Of course, they have long been a front for the gun manufacturers and this goes to the heart of the problem.  I am not opposed to guns and, in fact, used to own a rifle myself.  But the reaction from some, at any attempt to reduce gun violence, is beyond belief.  Add to this the current climate that seems to be fueling intolerance and you get this sort of situation, where even victims can be blamed for the violence that affects them and their families.  Then we get to the deniers who claim these mass shootings didn't happen, were staged etc.

There are other heavily armed countries, such as Switzerland and Israel, but this sort of thing tends not to happen there.  Why is the U.S. so different from the rest of the civilized world?

I'm a 66 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

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Offline Allie Jayne

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2019, 02:18:34 pm »
These incidents make me so glad I live in Australia with strict gun laws, though there is pressure here to water down those laws. I’m not sure if violent video games, or graphic reporting are causes, but all societies seem to be getting more violent. Once again we weep for the innocent victims of these massacres and remember Obamas dire predictions that it will happen again and again.....

Allie

Offline itsApril

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2019, 02:38:31 pm »
"The Small Arms Survey stated that U.S. civilians alone account for 393 million (about 46 percent) of the worldwide total of civilian held firearms.[2] This amounts to "120.5 firearms for every 100 residents."[2]"

"U.S civilians own 393 million guns. That is 3 times as many guns as the armed forces of the Russian Federation (30.3 million), China (27.5 million), North Korea (8.4 million), Ukraine (6.6 million), United States (4.5 million), India (3.9 million), Vietnam (3.8 million), Iran (3.3 million), South Korea (2.7 million), Pakistan (2.3 million), and all the other countries (39.7 million) combined.[6] American civilians own more guns "than those held by civilians in the other top 25 countries combined."[7]

"American civilians own nearly 100 times as many firearms as the U.S. military and nearly 400 times as many as law enforcement."[8] Americans bought more than 2 million guns in May 2018, alone.[8] That is more than twice as many guns, as possessed by every law enforcement agency in the United States put together.[8] In April and May 2018, U.S. civilians bought 4.7 million guns, which is more than all the firearms stockpiled by the United States military.[8] In 2017, Americans bought 25.2 million guns, which is 2.5 million more guns than possessed by every law enforcement agency in the world put together.[8] Between 2012 and 2017, U.S. civilians bought 135 million guns, 2 million more guns than the combined stockpile of all the world's armed forces.[8]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_ownership

In other words, there are more FIREARMS in the United States than PEOPLE.  Yet MOST Americans don't own or want a gun:

"There's a gun for every American. But less than a third own guns.

"High quality telephone polls from Gallup and the Pew Research Center in 2017 found that 42% of people in the US live in households with guns. According to the General Social Survey, which has a much higher response rate than telephone polls and interviews people in person, a relatively lower 32% of Americans said in 2016 that they lived in household with guns."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics/guns-dont-know-how-many-america/index.html

So the minority of Americans who ARE gun-owners have stockpiled huge stores of weapons.  My fellow Americans appear to have an insatiable appetite for firearms.

How many guns will they need to own before they feel safe?
-April

Offline kaygee

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2019, 02:49:27 pm »
How many guns will they need to own before they feel safe?

The irony is that in the US, if you buy a firearm for personal protection, it it more likely — statistically — that that weapon will injure or kill you or a loved one, than an enemy, assailant, or intruder.
Give me ambiguity... or give me something else.

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Offline AnneK

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2019, 03:03:19 pm »
Quote
How many guns will they need to own before they feel safe?

In my opinion, those people are the problem.
I'm a 66 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

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Offline Jessica

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2019, 04:43:44 pm »
I have to say that even though I consider myself able to deal with much that life throws at me.
When I went into a sports shop this morning to get gear for an upcoming fishing trip, I was confronted with people at the gun sales area where the salesperson was showing how to load a rifle.  He clearly was putting bullets into it as I walked in....had to turn around and leave.  How is that safe or even legal?  To load a weapon that could be grabbed and shot at whoever in the store is irresponsible.

The Gilroy shooting hit me hard as I’ve gone numerous times to the Garlic Festival.  The shooter lived only two blocks away from a close friend.  She had friends that knew the parents of this deranged individual and said they were wonderful people who were devastated and lost on why their son did this.

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Offline Dena

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2019, 07:02:04 pm »
I have to say that even though I consider myself able to deal with much that life throws at me.
When I went into a sports shop this morning to get gear for an upcoming fishing trip, I was confronted with people at the gun sales area where the salesperson was showing how to load a rifle.  He clearly was putting bullets into it as I walked in....had to turn around and leave.  How is that safe or even legal?  To load a weapon that could be grabbed and shot at whoever in the store is irresponsible.
Google Inert ammunition. It would be irresponsible to use live ammunition at a gun show or in a gun shop. It even goes as far as inert reloading components when demonstrating reloading equipment at shows to eliminate the risk of a fire. I know a manufacture of reloading machines and he ends up with buckets of properly loaded non functional ammunition.
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Offline Rakel

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2019, 08:33:27 pm »
How many guns will they need to own before they feel safe?

At the risk of voicing a different opinion, consider this.

Not all guns are used for self defense. Many people are sportsmen who safely use guns for hunting, target shooting and pest control. Police and military use guns in the normal performance of their jobs and these are very dangerous jobs that most of Americans are not qualified to perform. Farmers and ranchers use guns to keep their crops and live stock safe from predators. There are legitimate reasons for ownership and safe use of many types of firearms.

In a previous life, I worked on a farm, served in the military and worked in corrections where I had daily contact with unsavory people. To me, guns are just a tool of the trade. Nothing more.

There are already laws in the US that prohibit criminals, drug addicts and mentally unstable people from possessing a firearm. So why aren't these laws being enforced? Many of the most recent shooters have social media pages where they have stated violent, racist opinions. Isn't this a prime example of mental instability ?

One more thought. For those of us left who served in Viet Nam, we all thought the M 16 and other AR type rifles were a piece of junk. It jammed all the time. We hated the M 16. Now that the current version works fairly well and every day the national news on TV shows police or military carrying an AR type rifle, it has become a symbol of power and authority. I think that the real problem is that some people, mentally unfit for police or military service, are thinking that an AR type rife is cool. This is so stupid it boggles my mind.

The second amendment of the US Constitution calls for a well regulated militia, not a free for all in the hands of crazy people.




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Offline Haley Conner

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2019, 09:19:03 pm »
I have noticed that owning a gun can change some people.  It could be that the people are changing and then buying guns, but in my experience, some people buy guns, then start running home invasion scenarios through their minds, or whatever, and just getting obsessive about "defending themselves", and what it sounds like to me is that they WANT to shoot people.  Like this is what they now daydream about. 
  It would be interesting to do a study of peoples attitudes before and after gun ownership.  But it's clear that certain personality types and guns don't agree.  And a lot of those people aren't classified as mentally ill by any stretch.  And to make it worse, they lack training, and combined with their new sense of invulnerability can pose a serious risk to those around them. 
  The other day I noticed a thread on social media about a device that basically turns your gun into a refrigerator magnet, and commented on the obvious, that this presented a safety hazard, and the guy whose thread it was got SO hostile and defensive that he was borderline threatening me.  I had the impression he thought he could say anything to anyone by virtue of being a gun owner, and made sure to give him some choice words to ponder before he blocked me.  He may not have been mentally ill on paper, but there were a few screws loose for sure.  And it wasn't just one guy, there were several of them all saying how cool it was and they wanted one etc. 
  I think in addition to being sane, a person should have to prove that they have a level head and sound decision making skills.  And in particular, if they are law enforcement officers, who are often people who seek out positions of authority for the wrong reasons.  I'm not for banning firearms, I just think we are WAY too relaxed in regulating their usage and distribution.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 11:17:47 pm by Haley Conner »

Offline AnneK

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2019, 09:41:57 pm »
The second amendment of the US Constitution calls for a well regulated militia, not a free for all in the hands of crazy people.

I have often wondered about that.  To my knowledge, a militia is an organized group of part time soldiers.  The U.S. had to rely on a militia, at the time of the revolution, because it didn't have much of an army.  How many of these right to bear arms types are actually in a legitimate militia?  I know there have been many violent individuals who claim to be in a militia, but have nothing resembling one.  Also, when that 2nd amendment was written, muzzle loaders were the weapon of the day, not automatic rifles.

I'm a 66 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.

Offline AnneK

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2019, 09:45:29 pm »
Quote
And in particular, if they are law enforcement officers, who are often people who seek out positions of authority for the wrong reasons.

According to a Canadian documentary I watched a while ago, there are many who join the military or police, just to acquire certain skills to be used against others.
I'm a 66 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.

Offline Dena

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2019, 10:10:20 pm »
I have often wondered about that.  To my knowledge, a militia is an organized group of part time soldiers.  The U.S. had to rely on a militia, at the time of the revolution, because it didn't have much of an army.  How many of these right to bear arms types are actually in a legitimate militia?  I know there have been many violent individuals who claim to be in a militia, but have nothing resembling one.  Also, when that 2nd amendment was written, muzzle loaders were the weapon of the day, not automatic rifles.
Federalists 46 states two reasons for the 2nd amendment. One reason is incase of an invasion. If you think this no longer applies, look at English history during WW II. They had disarmed their population so the U.S. took up a collection of unneeded firearms and they were shipped to England to form a home guard.

The second reason is the first step every dictator takes is to disarm the population. This is true of Venezuelan, Korea, Russia, Nazi Germany and many other countries throughout history. The founding fathers wanted the population to have fire power equal to that of the government because they figured we would need to overthrow the government in about 10 years and start over again. The fact that we haven't show that we have remained more or less true to the constitution far longer than expected.

Other countries may trust their government but we make sure we have options should our government get out of control.  That is the price to ensure freedom.
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Offline MistressStevie

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2019, 10:18:25 pm »
According to a Canadian documentary I watched a while ago, there are many who join the military or police, just to acquire certain skills to be used against others.

Our capacity to do harm to each other is frightening.   This article from July about the anime studio arson
though shows there are many levels:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/19/japan-arson-attack-on-anime-studio-is-worst-mass-killing-since-2001.html
That attack was horrific and absent firearms. 

Nor is this are recent problem as the Bath School Disaster shows:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster 

I was talking with a friend the other day and our living in mutually exclusive silos is another element. 

Offline MistressStevie

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2019, 10:30:36 pm »
The second reason is the first step every dictator takes is to disarm the population. This is true of Venezuelan, Korea, Russia, Nazi Germany and many other countries throughout history. 

Said dictators kill on a frightening scale.   Several years ago this subject came up on this board and was discussed here:  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,133617.msg1064771.html#msg1064771
 

Offline Lady Sarah

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2019, 10:51:27 pm »
Sadly, such events will only cause people to fear other people more, and we know what Yoda says about fear.
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Offline Allie Jayne

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2019, 02:20:24 am »
Federalists 46 states two reasons for the 2nd amendment. One reason is incase of an invasion.

Other countries may trust their government but we make sure we have options should our government get out of control.  That is the price to ensure freedom.

I think things have changed a bit since 1945, and I doubt even an organised militia could repel a determined enemy using modern warfare tactics. And over 30,000 gun related deaths of US citizens a year is a high price to pay for that kind of freedom. And remember, the US has the most advanced military forces in the world, do you really believe a militia could defeat the US Armed Forces? Maybe it's time to revisit your constitution.....

Allie

Offline AnneK

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Re: Gun violence the new normal
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2019, 06:03:00 am »
Federalists 46 states two reasons for the 2nd amendment. One reason is incase of an invasion. If you think this no longer applies, look at English history during WW II. They had disarmed their population so the U.S. took up a collection of unneeded firearms and they were shipped to England to form a home guard.

The second reason is the first step every dictator takes is to disarm the population. This is true of Venezuelan, Korea, Russia, Nazi Germany and many other countries throughout history. The founding fathers wanted the population to have fire power equal to that of the government because they figured we would need to overthrow the government in about 10 years and start over again. The fact that we haven't show that we have remained more or less true to the constitution far longer than expected.

Other countries may trust their government but we make sure we have options should our government get out of control.  That is the price to ensure freedom.

I have studied WW2 history extensively.  Why have I never heard of that gun collection before?

I could make some comments about out of control government, but won't, to keep politics out.  However, what events over the past several years have shown is that Americans have much more to fear from these "gun rights" types, than the government.
I'm a 66 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.

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