Author Topic: trans and christian? what the bible say?  (Read 2558 times)

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Offline Radiant

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2019, 03:41:14 am »
Unfortunately the bible has been used for many bad things as well as good things.  Don't let peoples fear and ignorance scare you.  Jesus's message was primarily one of love and acceptance, those who preach judgement and hate are wrong.

Know that you are loved, are a wonderful person, and a treasure in this world. Don't listen to horrible and hurtful words.  I know it's hard, but don't listen.  Find true friends that love you as you are.

God doesn't make mistakes, you are who you are and God loves you. 'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female--for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.' It doesn't matter who we are, it matters how we treat each other. 

We are all special, equal, and loved.  Big hugs too you

Offline BlueJaye

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2019, 01:38:23 pm »
Hi, nvikki, I wrote a response to a similar question on Quora a while back and thought I would share my response with you in the hope that it may help and encourage you. Dealing with willfully ignorant people is difficult, especially when it's your own family and it involves matters of faith. The particular question I was answering that day was whether being transgender is a mistake by God, or whether people who suffer from gender dysphoria are sinning. Here is what I wrote:

It is said that wonders never cease, and I never seem to have any difficulty finding people who want to assign guilt to God for whatever their grudge happens to be that day.

It is true to say that God does not make mistakes. People make mistakes, people are imperfect, and more than anything else people suffer from the curse of sin and death.

We are told in the Book of Romans that death and suffering came as a result of man’s sin, and that all of creation groans under the curse of sin and death. Every broken body, every broken mind, every broken relationship, all brokenness in this world came because we broke away from God. And the only One who never deserved to be broken, chose to be broken for us to reconcile us to Himself. This is the very essence of the Gospel.

Now that I have set the background, I will address the original question directly. Are transgender people a mistake by God? Or, since this also comes up as a variation on the same theme, who is to blame for transgender people’s existence?

John 9:1–3 gives us God’s perspective on how and why He allows and uses the most broken among us: “As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him”. I really encourage you to read the whole chapter, because it really does a fantastic job of outlining God’s love for the broken.

Anyway, sticking to those three verses I quoted, let me explain. Being born blind, just like being born transgender or being born with any other abnormality, is not a mistake on God’s part nor is it the result of any particular sin of the parents or the afflicted person. It is a result of the curse that is upon all of creation and God allows it to manifest in certain ways to accomplish His eternal purposes.

I have sometimes, in moments of self pity, questioned why did I have to be transgender? Why did I have to be this way? But I am reminded that I can trust that God will use it for His good purposes, as promised in Romans 8:28, “And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purposes”.

What if, by my being transgender, I can bring the hope of the good news of salvation to another transgender person who would have never heard or believed that good news from a cisgender person? What if, by being a transgender witness for Jesus, I can motivate a cisgender Christian to throw away their prejudices against transgender people and get out there and minister to the millions of transgender people that are marginalized and excluded by the religious elite?

I don’t love being transgender. It is downright horrible sometimes. But I can tell you that if I one day reach heaven and am met there by another transgender person who thanks me for making their presence there possible, all of my suffering in this life will have been worth it and God will be glorified and vindicated for not having made a mistake.

msmicah

Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2019, 04:53:00 pm »
BlueJaye,

I think your response to Nvikki was beautiful and full of hope. It is so encouraging to meet other trans women who have a strong faith. God bless you!

-Micah

Hi, nvikki, I wrote a response to a similar question on Quora a while back and thought I would share my response with you in the hope that it may help and encourage you. Dealing with willfully ignorant people is difficult, especially when it's your own family and it involves matters of faith. The particular question I was answering that day was whether being transgender is a mistake by God, or whether people who suffer from gender dysphoria are sinning. Here is what I wrote:

It is said that wonders never cease, and I never seem to have any difficulty finding people who want to assign guilt to God for whatever their grudge happens to be that day.

It is true to say that God does not make mistakes. People make mistakes, people are imperfect, and more than anything else people suffer from the curse of sin and death.

We are told in the Book of Romans that death and suffering came as a result of man’s sin, and that all of creation groans under the curse of sin and death. Every broken body, every broken mind, every broken relationship, all brokenness in this world came because we broke away from God. And the only One who never deserved to be broken, chose to be broken for us to reconcile us to Himself. This is the very essence of the Gospel.

Now that I have set the background, I will address the original question directly. Are transgender people a mistake by God? Or, since this also comes up as a variation on the same theme, who is to blame for transgender people’s existence?

John 9:1–3 gives us God’s perspective on how and why He allows and uses the most broken among us: “As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him”. I really encourage you to read the whole chapter, because it really does a fantastic job of outlining God’s love for the broken.

Anyway, sticking to those three verses I quoted, let me explain. Being born blind, just like being born transgender or being born with any other abnormality, is not a mistake on God’s part nor is it the result of any particular sin of the parents or the afflicted person. It is a result of the curse that is upon all of creation and God allows it to manifest in certain ways to accomplish His eternal purposes.

I have sometimes, in moments of self pity, questioned why did I have to be transgender? Why did I have to be this way? But I am reminded that I can trust that God will use it for His good purposes, as promised in Romans 8:28, “And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purposes”.

What if, by my being transgender, I can bring the hope of the good news of salvation to another transgender person who would have never heard or believed that good news from a cisgender person? What if, by being a transgender witness for Jesus, I can motivate a cisgender Christian to throw away their prejudices against transgender people and get out there and minister to the millions of transgender people that are marginalized and excluded by the religious elite?

I don’t love being transgender. It is downright horrible sometimes. But I can tell you that if I one day reach heaven and am met there by another transgender person who thanks me for making their presence there possible, all of my suffering in this life will have been worth it and God will be glorified and vindicated for not having made a mistake.


Offline Janes Groove

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2019, 09:41:10 pm »
I say follow the example of Martin Luther. 

He took a look around him and saw that the existing iteration of Christianity had become corrupt.  So he followed his heart, rejected the errors that man, in pride, had fallen into and transformed/reformed Christianity itself, and breathed new life into the Good News of Jesus Christ.  Heck even the example of Jesus and the Pharisees is relevant here: 
"The New Testament, particularly the Synoptic Gospels, presents especially the leadership of the Pharisees as obsessed with man-made rules (especially concerning purity) whereas Jesus is more concerned with God's love."
-Wikipedia

These political/grifter/money-grubber/power-hungry/worldly preachers are an abomination unto the Lord.

Do what you know.

 

Ricki

Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2019, 06:24:23 am »
nvikki,

The Bible doesn't have a lot to say specifically about <transgender>.  I recently read a book on the subject by a Christian mother of a trans child.  Cheryl B. Evans wrote "What Does God Think? - Transgender People and the Bible"  I got the kindle version for free with my Kindle Unlimited membership.  Maybe a hard copy to pass to your family members might help.

I pray some of your family comes around,
Stevi

@Stevi

After reading the "Look inside" preview of this book in it's entirety on Amazon, I have added it to my wish list. I have struggled with my younger sister's rejection of me on the basis of her religion having the rote response of "Love the sinner, hate the sin" for all LGBT+. As you can imagine, I find this response offensive as it implies that I am a sinner just by existing as He made me. I have many sins I am attempting to atone for: Being trans is not on the list of sins at all.

I am half tempted to tell her my denomination has a "Love the Hypocrite, hate the Hypocrisy" stance on people who claim to be Christian yet believe LGBT+ people are sinners.

Hugs (while crying)

Ricki

Offline BlueJaye

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2019, 06:47:15 am »
@Stevi

After reading the "Look inside" preview of this book in it's entirety on Amazon, I have added it to my wish list. I have struggled with my younger sister's rejection of me on the basis of her religion having the rote response of "Love the sinner, hate the sin" for all LGBT+. As you can imagine, I find this response offensive as it implies that I am a sinner just by existing as He made me. I have many sins I am attempting to atone for: Being trans is not on the list of sins at all.

I am half tempted to tell her my denomination has a "Love the Hypocrite, hate the Hypocrisy" stance on people who claim to be Christian yet believe LGBT+ people are sinners.

Hugs (while crying)

Ricki

Maybe show her this and ask if she still has anything to hate: https://baptistnews.com/article/why-being-transgender-is-not-a-sin/#.XVAAASVOmEc

Offline Stevi

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2019, 09:30:09 am »
Rikki,

I am pleased you found the book helpful.  I pray for all that is good in your journey. I hope time will soften the hearts of those you love.

Hugs and hope,
Stevi

Offline Radiant

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2019, 03:36:42 am »
Maybe show her this and ask if she still has anything to hate: https://baptistnews.com/article/why-being-transgender-is-not-a-sin/#.XVAAASVOmEc

Thank you for posting that link BlueJaye.  The pastors YouTube/Tedx talk video is fantastic. I cried thru most of it, it was wonderful to listen too.  Thank you.

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2019, 12:46:35 am »
Deuteronomy 22:5 New International Version (NIV)
 "A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this."

Some translations say 'abomination'.

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Offline MaryT

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2019, 02:45:56 am »
Deuteronomy 22:5 New International Version (NIV)
 "A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this."

Some translations say 'abomination'.

Trans women wear women's clothing and trans men wear men's clothing, so trans men and women obey that law.  However, this is a site for cross-dressers too, so we should disagree with Deuteronomy 22:5 on their behalf. 

Anyway, in Mark 2:22 Jesus says
"And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins."

He respected the Old Testament laws but he also made changes and did away with trivialities.



 
 

Offline BlueJaye

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2019, 07:19:04 am »
Deuteronomy 22:5 New International Version (NIV)
 "A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this."

Some translations say 'abomination'.

There are many ways to argue about this verse. But, let’s ask the question, should a woman wear women’s clothing, or a man wear men’s clothing? That’s what it really comes down to. If we are really the men and women we know we are, then it’s actually a sin according to this verse for us to dress outside of our gender.

There are a number of problems when trying to apply this verse to trans people.

Offline Adchop

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2019, 11:19:49 pm »
Hi all,

I am a transgender woman, and really try to be Christian but so difficult when all my family are so much homophobic. They love me, but the same time they make me always so stressed out and depressed because they believe being transgender is just wrong. Both my mom and dad are pastors. I am divorced with two kids. I just love them too much so I don't want to cut all communications with my ex and with them, but I don't know what to tell them, and they would not listen to me anyways...and feel that my transition is so beautiful, and it would be if they would accept me. But now my life is totally in ruins and always stressed out because of relationship breakdown, psychological abuse and a huge guilt that this is all I did, and I do it to myself because I choose to transition and not choosing God. I believe it is possible to be trans and Christian, I really try to be. But with such guilt putting, I don't know how possible...
They tell me that :
- God created me, and I should not create myself
- God created the man and woman and there is no other gender.
- that I am a <transgender person> whore, and it is Sodom who I am (I am not a sex worker)
- it is immoral to be a transgender
- that I should return to be a man and go back to my ex (I won't be a man again)
- I am serving the devil and don't listen

anyways, I don't even know how to deal with them and how to deal with this all at all...and I can't prove myself and I can't defend myself because my life is not pretty now, and they are better talkers and they always win with words.
and...what really the Bible say?

Hi,

I’m sorry you’re going through all this. If i can i would like to suggest a few Christian writers that might help. Paul Young is very inclusive, & so is andrew marin.  Marin wrote a book called Love is an orientation based off his experiences with friends in the lgbt community.

Offline Paul Muad-Dib

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2019, 05:13:10 pm »
In my view Christians should follow the example set by Jesus and Jesus had nothing bad to say about transgender or transsexual people. Even if he'd been confronted with one in life what d'you think he would do? These people talking to you are speaking for Him out of ignorance.

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2020, 11:59:31 am »
If we are to use only scripture and not our own thoughts or any denominational teaching there are some things so many overlook.

To start with, it is written we should consider ourselves when we see a brother (or sister) at fault. (or what we may think is a fault)
How would we feel if we were in their place?
Would your family enjoy having them tell us what your family has said?

Secondly, it is also written "doth not nature teach us"

Deuteronomy 22:5 does not say a woman should not wear a man's garment.
It says the woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man.

Since our Lord Jesus is a High Priest that means we should not wear a "breastplate of judgment" or judge anyone.
It also means women should not wear weapons of war.
Using nature men have a member of their body women do not. Therefor a woman should not wear an athletic supporter or men's underwear such as briefs.

It also says neither shall a man put on a woman's garment.
Nature teaches us that women have parts of their body men do not.
A man should not wear a bra or a veil.
The veil is the only listed woman's garment and the bra by nature.

Of course men who have had breast augmentation could as they have breasts.

Men are listed as wearing skirts and breeches were listed for men. None of the priests were women.

This is the explanation which is scripture only and has no twisting of denominations or teachings which cater to any given time frame, location, or societal limitations or backing.

I hope this helps as it is only scripture and nothing outside of scripture.

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2020, 12:08:39 pm »
@Victoria V
Dear Victoria V
PLEASE know that I am not trying to hijack and sidetrack your posted comments but first I wish to give you a big Welcome here to Susan's Place and the Forums and to provide you with the Forums Rules that will help you be involved here.
    Thank you for coming to the Forums and submitting your very first post.
    I am most pleased that you had decided to join the Susan's Place site.

    Thank you for writing your first posting.... as you get more involved in exchanging comments on various posts other members will be offering their thoughts and comments in response to any of your future questions and concerns..

    This is the right place for you to be to find out what others may have to say regarding their own experieinces.
    There are a lot of members here that will be able to identify with your situation as you continue to feel free to share it.
 
    I also want to warmly WELCOME you to Susan's Place
You will find this a safe and friendly place to share with others and to read about others similar trials, tribulations, and successes.

    As you are certainly aware you can share with others and involve yourself with some give and take with other like-minded members.  When frustrated or if you have successes you can share it here if you wish and receive support from others and offer support to others. ....
     ***It's a very good chance that you might find that you will make some new friends here. 

    Please come in and continue to be involved at your own pace.
   
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Please look closely at the LINKS in RED, answers are there to many questions that new members ask.

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Offline Northern Star Girl

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2020, 12:10:49 pm »
@Victoria V
Dear Victoria V:

If you wish, please feel free to stop by the Introductions Forum to briefly tell more members about yourself!

Wishing you well as you get more involved in the forums and meet more members here.

Danielle

NOTE:  Now that all of this necessary greeting stuff is over, I will hand your thread back to you and those that may want to respond to your original posting.
***SEE MY LINKS BELOW
The Ramblings of a Northern*Star Girl
A New Chapter: ALASKAN DANIELLE's Chronicles
I am the HUNTED PREY: Danielle’s Chronicles
Things change re: ALASKAN DANIELLE
Positive Mindset... put away negativity

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Offline Victoria V

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2020, 12:12:05 pm »
I guess I'll add this to my above comment.

One things which isn't taught are about eunuchs.

An eunuch can either be celibate or castrated.

An eunuch can be used and live as either male or female.

The eunuchs living as females can be seen in Esther and with the ones who cast Jezebel down. Nothing pertaining to men is allowed in a harem or house of women.

The eunuchs living as men were men of war such as Ebedmelech and the eunuch Philip was sent to who kept the treasure of Candace queen of Ethiopia.

I hope this helps as this too uses only scripture and no outside sources.

Offline Andrea Candle

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2020, 02:31:28 pm »
Read the gospel of Thomas, there is about Androgyne / transgender and the Talmud says that Christ had breasts like a woman.
“Stop thinking and end your problems.” Lao Tzu

Offline JennyTG

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2020, 01:36:36 pm »
Read the gospel of Thomas, there is about Androgyne / transgender and the Talmud says that Christ had breasts like a woman.

I was just talking about the missing gospels to my lovely beauty therapist yesterday.  She is a church-going Christian but very accepting of many walks-of-life, a rare one.  One of the first group I came out to.  I feel extremely lucky to have met her.

~Jenny~

Offline Andrea Candle

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Re: trans and christian? what the bible say?
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2020, 12:48:49 pm »
I was just talking about the missing gospels to my lovely beauty therapist yesterday.  She is a church-going Christian but very accepting of many walks-of-life, a rare one.  One of the first group I came out to.  I feel extremely lucky to have met her.

~Jenny~


Even the first images depicted Christ without a beard! Nice Jenny,that you have someone from the Christians group who accepts you.
“Stop thinking and end your problems.” Lao Tzu

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