Author Topic: Preferred name and pronouns at work.  (Read 1111 times)

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Offline JessicaF84

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Preferred name and pronouns at work.
« on: December 13, 2019, 10:38:24 pm »
Good evening ladies and gentlemen reading this,

So my dilemma is that I work in an all Male environment (firefighter) and have been on HRT for 4 months and have come out over a year and a half ago. I'd say about only 20% of the people I work with (younger people) are respectful and use the name and gender I have requested. My question is and I cannot find it anywhere except for schools, is there a law that requires people to address you how you wish to be addressed? As I become more feminine I don't want to be outed by ignorance of dead naming me infront of taxpayers. Policy wise they are "burying their heads in the sand" because they dont want to acknow the fact I am transgender. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Offline Rakel

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Re: Preferred name and pronouns at work.
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2019, 07:11:14 am »
Give it more time.

As you progress and your changes become more noticeable, some people will come around and refer to you as you wish. Right now, it may be a situation of too much, too soon for them to take in all at once. Most people mean well.

Then there are the other people.  >:-) These other people will never accept us as we are. I have no good answer on how to deal with these people.




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Offline ChrissyRyan

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Re: Preferred name and pronouns at work.
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2019, 07:21:53 am »
Good evening ladies and gentlemen reading this,

So my dilemma is that I work in an all Male environment (firefighter) and have been on HRT for 4 months and have come out over a year and a half ago. I'd say about only 20% of the people I work with (younger people) are respectful and use the name and gender I have requested. My question is and I cannot find it anywhere except for schools, is there a law that requires people to address you how you wish to be addressed? As I become more feminine I don't want to be outed by ignorance of dead naming me infront of taxpayers. Policy wise they are "burying their heads in the sand" because they dont want to acknow the fact I am transgender. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Give it more time.

As you progress and your changes become more noticeable, some people will come around and refer to you as you wish. Right now, it may be a situation of too much, too soon for them to take in all at once. Most people mean well.

Then there are the other people.  >:-) These other people will never accept us as we are. I have no good answer on how to deal with these people.


Jessica,

I think that Rakel is right.

In the meantime, I realize that this is hard on you.  Keep on hoping that they will address you by your name and desired pronouns, remind them to do so. 

Some may have known you for so long that it is hard for them to do this and get used to it.  But, with sincere practice, they can. However, they do have to want to do so.

Chrissy

Be a good example of good behavior.  Always be kinder than needed.  Be tender to others.  You are as beautiful as the thoughts you think and the words that you speak.   Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding.  Knowledge and action shown without love is not impressive.  If you look for the good in people you will find it. Healthy relationships are so important to good living.  Serve others.

Good living, joy, unity, love, and happiness can come from following these practices: Never let selfishness or conceit motivate you.  Regard others as more important than yourself.  Do not limit attention to only your interests, but include the interests of others

It is not usually about how fast you transition, it is about how well you transition.  

tgchar21

Re: Preferred name and pronouns at work.
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2019, 08:57:26 am »
Regarding your name, 1) Have you legally changed your name or 2) Does the employer allow cis people to go by a name other than their legal one? If either of those is true, and gender identity is protected in that jurisdiction, then what they're doing is probably not allowed (even without trans protection if you have a court-ordered name change they'd be in violation of ignoring a court order).

If the employer requires everyone to go by their legal name (regardless of why they may prefer to use another name) it'd be a bit harder to challenge unless you live somewhere where preferred name rights for trans people are explicitly spelled out (this would be a "disparate impact" challenge).

Offline KathyLauren

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Re: Preferred name and pronouns at work.
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2019, 12:39:52 pm »
Whether or not there is a law that protects your rights as a trans person depends on what the laws are in your jurisdiction.  In some places, there may be protections at the municipal, state/provincial, and/or national levels.  In other places, there are no protections.  You should research what the legal status is where you live.

Here in Canada, there are legal protections against discrimination at the provincial and national levels.  However, those protections would not necessarily apply to dead-naming or the use of incorrect pronouns.  They apply to things like getting fired for being trans, or getting demoted or paid less, being denied access to public spaces, that kind of thing.

For dead-naming or incorrect pronouns to be considered illegal, you would have to prove that the person said what they said in an effort to promote hatred against trans people.  That is hard to do.

And of course, that applies to the laws where I live.  They are likely different where you live.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly, beginning full-time; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2020-03-11 GRS!; 2020-09-30 New birth certificate; 2021-03-10 consultation for ongoing pain




Offline JessicaF84

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Re: Preferred name and pronouns at work.
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2019, 02:06:56 pm »
Regarding your name, 1) Have you legally changed your name or 2) Does the employer allow cis people to go by a name other than their legal one? If either of those is true, and gender identity is protected in that jurisdiction, then what they're doing is probably not allowed (even without trans protection if you have a court-ordered name change they'd be in violation of ignoring a court order).

If the employer requires everyone to go by their legal name (regardless of why they may prefer to use another name) it'd be a bit harder to challenge unless you live somewhere where preferred name rights for trans people are explicitly spelled out (this would be a "disparate impact" challenge).

I have not legally changed yet, in the process of getting that done. There are 2 cis people who go by their middle names and ar are always referred to by that name. I know it's difficult dealing with people and try to give the benefit of the doubt I just know some dont give a <poo> enough to bother and they have stated that to my face

Offline AllieSF

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Re: Preferred name and pronouns at work.
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2019, 02:39:53 pm »
I agree with Kathy.  I would not do anything hard yet, like going to your supervisor until your name is legally changed.  Will that include gender change too?  At that time, I would go straight to the Station top person and have him officially announce that you have legally changed your name and that is the name that "everyone": shall use from that moment on.  Right now, I do not believe that you have much legal support.  After changing your name you will and you can and should ask your superiors to support that.  They legally have to do that.  Not doing that could get them in trouble for a Civil Rights/Discrimination problem.  There are a lot of attorneys that can take on a case like that.

The idea is to never get to the legal point of all of it, except for using the correct name and gender.  Good luck.

Allie
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Offline JessicaF84

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Re: Preferred name and pronouns at work.
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2019, 12:52:34 am »
I agree with Kathy.  I would not do anything hard yet, like going to your supervisor until your name is legally changed.  Will that include gender change too?  At that time, I would go straight to the Station top person and have him officially announce that you have legally changed your name and that is the name that "everyone": shall use from that moment on.  Right now, I do not believe that you have much legal support.  After changing your name you will and you can and should ask your superiors to support that.  They legally have to do that.  Not doing that could get them in trouble for a Civil Rights/Discrimination problem.  There are a lot of attorneys that can take on a case like that.

The idea is to never get to the legal point of all of it, except for using the correct name and gender.  Good luck.

Allie

100% agree with you, the last thing I want to do is get someone in trouble, just looking for a little bit of respect and decency from them. I have changed my gender marker on my license, the name I am working on the funds for a lawyer. I understand you can do it yourself but it seems like a complicated process to me, especially the newspaper part. I do have a question concerning name change also. So my parents are wondering if they would have to revise all their wills and other documents when I change it or will the decree by the judge saying I went from x to y suffice?

Offline AllieSF

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Re: Preferred name and pronouns at work.
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2019, 04:16:55 pm »
Jessica,

I would strongly recommend that when you legally change your name, a court order is required here in California for both name and gender, that you change it everywhere else that you can think of to avoid expensive legals issues later on, including their wills and other documents.  Legal issues can quickly turn into economic ones if someone decides to contest something, and a will or living trust is an easy target, especially when larger estates are involved.  The court order/decree probably works, but why make it more difficult in the future when everyone is in agreement now and just need to know what is necessary.  IOt is a quick fix by an attorney and should not be too expensive for them.

I know that in some States you can change a gender marker on certain documents with out a court order/decree stating that the person has legally changed their gender.  Some States like California require that a gender change needs to be done through the court system, since a Drivers Licence is the second most reliable ID that can be used for most moments when ID are required.  With the new Real ID designation on one's Drivers License that allows one to use that ID as an acceptable ID for domestic air travel, they will require all documents to be in the legal name.  I am not sure about gender, but I suspect that it also includes ones legal gender.  It is a little confusing but, to me at least, it is an understandable precaution to require that an important legal ID be backed up by legal documents where required.

I hope that helps.
HRT - February 2017
Full Time - July 2018
Orchi - January 2018
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Janes Groove

Re: Preferred name and pronouns at work.
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2019, 09:12:11 pm »
I don't like the idea of forcing people to use the correct pronouns. It's basically telling people how and what to think, i.e. thought police.

Offline Madison02

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Re: Preferred name and pronouns at work.
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2020, 09:15:06 pm »
100% agree with you, the last thing I want to do is get someone in trouble, just looking for a little bit of respect and decency from them. I have changed my gender marker on my license, the name I am working on the funds for a lawyer. I understand you can do it yourself but it seems like a complicated process to me, especially the newspaper part. I do have a question concerning name change also. So my parents are wondering if they would have to revise all their wills and other documents when I change it or will the decree by the judge saying I went from x to y suffice?

The name change process actually isn't as hard as it may seem. I live in California and did all of my own paperwork and filing. I simply had to pay the court fee to do so. One nice thing is that the courts have a free clinic where they will review your docs prior to submittal to make sure they are correct. They will not fill them out for you, but will show you where things may need correcting.

As for the newspaper, again, here in California, it is not a legal requirement to put an announcement in the paper for things like a gender change or name change. Doing so could put some people in physical danger, not to mention it's nobody's business, and thankfully that is not a requirement here.

It may be worth your time to look into just how much of this you can do on your own and what is required to file. It may save you some time and money. All the best to you.

- Madi


*** sorry....just realized that this is a really old post.....

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