Author Topic: Is FaceBook Outing Me?  (Read 1009 times)

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Offline michjenn

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2020, 08:21:23 am »
Hi Laura,

Two FB accounts here too, one for Jenn and the other my male side. I dont want to be outed per se either. I dont like the "people you may know" suggestions and no, I dont have any pics of Jenn on her (my) page. Being discrete is ok

Offline Tess100

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2020, 08:27:26 am »
It is hard to not shrink into a corner of paranoia. :(

Online Laura1951

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2020, 08:33:59 am »
It is hard to not shrink into a corner of paranoia. :(
@Tess

So true. Reminds me of the quote, You're not paranoid if they really are after you.

This experience has riveted me and I wish I'd been warned in advance.

Laura
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 02:06:29 pm by Laura1951 »

Online Laura1951

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2020, 08:36:05 am »
Hi Laura,

Two FB accounts here too, one for Jenn and the other my male side. I dont want to be outed per se either. I dont like the "people you may know" suggestions and no, I dont have any pics of Jenn on her (my) page. Being discrete is ok
@michjenn

I think we both dodged a bullet and only our paranoia has saved us.

Laura
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 02:06:57 pm by Laura1951 »

Offline michjenn

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2020, 01:07:58 pm »
Very true Laura  ;)

Offline Battle Goddess

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2020, 03:52:25 pm »
@Battle Goddess

Well, this is depressing. Thank you for explaining.

Laura

Gosh, you send out one little Orwellian post in the middle of the night, and suddenly everybody's all a-Twitter!

I would like to say a word or two in defense of us drudges who toil away in the industry. I confess freely that I am complicit in the type of shenanigans that have linked you, Laura, with the face you put on to meet the faces that you meet. I make no apologies; my field has provided me a fine and fascinating living for the past twenty-five years.

I’m sure there are a few creeps in our field who would love nothing more than to Out everyone they can. I have never encountered a single one during an entire generation of professional experience. I do know that plenty of us are trying to figure out how to not Out people. It’s not easy to automate. Computers don’t have transdar.

By far the greatest number of us simply want to get on with our jobs because we deal with tens or hundreds of millions of people at a time. We haven’t the time to address small sub-populations unless it’s financially viable. Make a business case, and we’re all over it. Ethical cases are what we work on in our copious spare time. We certainly don’t have the time to Out individuals one by one. Trust me, Laura, it was nothing personal.

FaceBook is bad Mmkay!

Yeah, I sorta agree. It’s not that they don’t do what everybody else does. Google reads your gmail and surveils your location. Every website tracks your visits.

Where I find Facebook disappointing is that their users generally have no idea of how FB uses its data and that FB makes only token efforts at letting anyone know. Privacy settings are typically buried within several layers of menu to make them hard to find. FB operates under the principle of “that which is not forbidden is allowed,” so while you think you may have privacy controls, it’s crucial to take the narrowest possible lawyerly meaning of their wording. Nothing else is private. Everything is theirs. And if an engineer makes a mistake and an algorithm accidentally Outs you? Oops. They can fix the algorithm later, but your cover is blown forever.

If you view a product or service online, or visit a store in person, you will likely start seeing ads for the products, services, and locations on your Facebook timeline. That's Google and your phone provider sharing data with Facebook.

Heck, yeah! The whole idea is that I send you an ad for something you might like instead of wasting your time with ads for things you wouldn’t care for. If I can coordinate my messaging across all of the platforms I use to communicate with you, I can keep the useless ads to a minimum.

I use Facebook a fair bit, but with the following restrictions:

* I only use it on computers (no mobile devices that can track my location).
* I use a plugin called Facebook Container that prevents other sites from talking to Facebook about my visits. (It also means I can't like stuff that's on the net and I can't use OpenID with Facebook to identify myself, but I don't care about those.)
* I use uBlock Origin and AdBlocker Ultimate plugins.
* I use Firefox.
* If I make use of other Facebook properties, I impose the same restrictions on them, save for Whatsapp.

These aren’t bad. I use the Brave browser and DuckDuckGo for my search engine, but I’ve heard the new Firefox is very good. You could try using a VPN. You could use the Tor browser if you really want to get wild. Nothing is perfect, though. You will never be airtight.

Me, I just don’t use Facebook. My friends call if they need me.

@AnonyMs
So glad I didn't post my picture on Laura's site.

I have tape over the camera on my laptop. One suggestion might be to not post your picture on one of the accounts. People might notice a similarity of posting, but not make a connection to your face. We have way too many things watching us today. Seems like anything you say around your computer or phone goes directly to FB advertising!

Now we’re talking.

Never post pictures. Not of yourself, not of your kids, not of anyone else’s kids. Just… don’t. FB isn’t the only one running facial-recognition technology on its platform. Want to flap a red cape in front of bad actors? Put your pretty puss online. Would you like to hand some stranger with candy and a van your kid’s name? Tag your little guy’s photo on Facebook. Or wait for one of your friends to do it. Or just sit back and let Facebook do it for you automatically.

Paranoid and silly as it makes me feel, I, too, have electrician’s tape over my laptop camera. My house has none of those creepy monitoring devices like Alexa that record every word you utter “to help their language recognition technologies.” Did you know that Hitachi once tried to market a television that did the same thing, except that they “forgot” to tell anyone? Didn’t go over so hot once folks found out, and no more Hitachi products for me, TYVM.


------

We have to be realistic: there is no privacy online, for lurking out there are thousands and thousands of Battle Goddesses eager to earn their pay, and they are data-hungry and very, very smart, and we really want to send you the best gosh-darn advertisement you’ve ever seen, and any scrap of data we can throw into the machine, if it upgrades our models, can be worth millions. We’re going to get whatever data we can from whomever we can whenever we can.

I only try to slow the amount of data I generate from a torrent to a trickle. I expect to be Outed online. I hope it’s well after I’ve already done it myself. Such things happen. People don’t always keep up with the news. Some of them aren’t even on Facebook, if you can imagine.


 
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Offline Ellie_Arroway

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2020, 04:55:30 pm »
These aren’t bad. I use the Brave browser and DuckDuckGo for my search engine, but I’ve heard the new Firefox is very good. You could try using a VPN. You could use the Tor browser if you really want to get wild. Nothing is perfect, though. You will never be airtight.

It's good enough for me. There is a balance to be struck between convenience and privacy here. I also don't want to see much advertising on FB, and I don't.

I'm mainly concerned about privacy. I have all the facial recognition stuff turned off. I think I have everything restricted as tightly as it can go unless I have a wish to use a specific feature.

I'm not going to take matters to extremes and live like a hermit; that would not be good for my mental health if nothing else! - E
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Offline AnonyMs

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2020, 09:38:41 pm »
I have a separate tablet for Facebook with a VPN and automatic kill switch if the VPN stops working. I use a browser rather than the app, and registered the account with a fake name and burner phone number. I don’t use it for anything else.  Still not feeling safe, but I was curious what was on Facebook.

Now I know, and its not worth it. It’s absolutely full of advertising and lies. Any organisation that uses Facebook as the only means of communicating with people is doing their users a disservice. I can’t for the life of me understand why there are trans groups on there.

Offline Battle Goddess

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2020, 08:20:20 am »
I have a separate tablet for Facebook with a VPN and automatic kill switch if the VPN stops working. I use a browser rather than the app, and registered the account with a fake name and burner phone number. I don’t use it for anything else.

Not bad. Again, you're slowing things to a trickle, but I have n different colleagues who also see that kind of sophisticated behavior as a flag for possible insurance fraud.

PLEASE, I am NOT accusing you of participating in any kind of insurance fraud scheme. It's just that scammers also do the same sort of thing, so we look for it.

It's just like when you use a credit card to buy gas near an expressway entrance. First thing a creep does when they steal your card is check if it's still open. Best place to do that is somewhere they can beat feet if need be. Credit card closed? Skedaddle. Card still open? Off to the Best Buy! And you get a call from your bank asking what's going on because you've triggered your bank's fraud models by raising a flag for suspicious behaviour.

We're always on the lookout for suspicious behaviour. The Navy developed Tor for super-untraceable communications, but when we see anonymized servers hitting our sites, that raises a flag, too.

It's our job to look for flags, and we're very good at our jobs. Our math is abstruse, our computers monstrous, and when you flag yourself for special investigation, you just may have Outed yourself. Sorry, but that's the way it is. I have war stories, and our community doesn't get a fair shake at all. For very good reasons we don't get a fair shake at all.

Now I know, and its not worth it. It’s absolutely full of advertising and lies. Any organisation that uses Facebook as the only means of communicating with people is doing their users a disservice. I can’t for the life of me understand why there are trans groups on there.

Is it worth it? Up to you. I agree with you, AnonyMs - I think FB is a farrago of lies, evasions, folly, and hatred. I won't use it. If you want to (or have to) use it, I don't judge. There are plenty of good reasons to use it. We're all free to choose. Mostly.
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Offline AllieSF

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2020, 11:51:41 am »
Thank you so much Goddess, which you are, especially for all that background tech stuff!  Are you in the San Francisco Bay area?  If so, I am in the East Bay, out and happy, and would love to meet you.  Thanks again for the great input,

Allie
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Offline RandyL

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2020, 11:56:24 am »
Wow, this topic really resonates here! I got on FB because my kids and their generation use it a lot. The next younger mostly use Snapchat.

Over time I've added friends of my own generation, even some old college and childhood friends. I like the connections I can see, and what they choose to post. I mostly ignore the ads, and see very little from the "other" side. My kids and I actually post very little, and nothing too revealing like travel.

I'm fortunate in a way that I decided to out myself early on, when my wife needed support. I announced it to my entire extended family. Now my FB and Susan's avatars are the same photo.

As for privacy, my health insurance company outed my SSN to the dark world years ago. Nothing seems to have come of it yet but I stay vigilant.

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Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2020, 12:01:44 pm »
"Farrago" is a fine word. I'm surprised I've never encountered it before this. Thanks, BG, for it and all your advice.

I've had my credit card number used by thieves three times. All three times, my phone rang minutes after each theft and the company asked me if I'd made those purchases. A new credit card arrived the next day three times. I was ever so impressed and felt safe because of their abstruse math and monstrous computers.

Offline AllieSF

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2020, 12:29:10 pm »
I had to look that one up!!
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Offline Battle Goddess

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2020, 01:55:38 pm »
Thank you so much Goddess, which you are, especially for all that background tech stuff!  Are you in the San Francisco Bay area?  If so, I am in the East Bay, out and happy, and would love to meet you.  Thanks again for the great input,

Allie

Which helps me in my job immensely, as I now have a rough idea of where you live, and once I finally get a solid fix on that, I can start to figure out who else is in your household, then identify which of you buys what and send separate streams of real cool ads to each of you… on Facebook!

Would love to meet! Thank you. Unfortunately, I live quite a distance away.


I mostly ignore the ads...

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I've had my credit card number used by thieves three times. All three times, my phone rang minutes after each theft and the company asked me if I'd made those purchases. A new credit card arrived the next day three times. I was ever so impressed and felt safe because of their abstruse math and monstrous computers.

You wouldn’t believe what a technical challenge it is to process all those transactions coming in from all over the world in an unending stream, then do any math on them at all, and then send back an approve/decline in seconds. I barely understand the IT anymore. Models are bleedingly fine-tuned and monitored constantly. But we consumers don’t have to pay for what the thieves charged anymore! Math and computers have driven fraud so low that banks just absorb the losses themselves.


"Farrago" is a fine word. I'm surprised I've never encountered it before this.

Teach me a new one! You owe me now!


I had to look that one up!!

You, too!!






Is everyone getting all the shout-outs?
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Offline AnonyMs

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2020, 03:28:05 pm »
Not bad. Again, you're slowing things to a trickle, but I have n different colleagues who also see that kind of sophisticated behavior as a flag for possible insurance fraud.

PLEASE, I am NOT accusing you of participating in any kind of insurance fraud scheme. It's just that scammers also do the same sort of thing, so we look for it.

Yes, of course. I’m actually quite surprised they haven’t asked for more identification yet, or banned me. I‘m sure they noticed what I’m up to but, I expect my behaviour since joining has kept them happy.  I’ll either stop using it or get a new account if/when that happens.

I would imagine anyone doing something illegal would be rather more sophisticated that what I’ve done. I just want to avoid being outed so it’s not worth taking any additional steps. It’s already cost me a tablet and some inconvenience.

I don’t think Facebook can identify me from what I’ve done, but the police could quite easily. I don’t care about that. It’s very unlikely they would be interested in me.

There’s a balance in these things. The only way to truly keep this all a secret is to keep it all in your head. Never take any actions that lets it out, like joining susans, or talking to anyone. Then you end up cracking from psychological problems. So I might get outed, it’s worth the risk, and probably about time for me anyway.

Offline Battle Goddess

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2020, 04:11:54 pm »
Yes, of course. I’m actually quite surprised they haven’t asked for more identification yet, or banned me. I‘m sure they noticed what I’m up to but, I expect my behaviour since joining has kept them happy.  I’ll either stop using it or get a new account if/when that happens.

I would imagine anyone doing something illegal would be rather more sophisticated that what I’ve done. I just want to avoid being outed so it’s not worth taking any additional steps. It’s already cost me a tablet and some inconvenience.

I don’t think Facebook can identify me from what I’ve done, but the police could quite easily. I don’t care about that. It’s very unlikely they would be interested in me.

There’s a balance in these things. The only way to truly keep this all a secret is to keep it all in your head. Never take any actions that lets it out, like joining susans, or talking to anyone. Then you end up cracking from psychological problems. So I might get outed, it’s worth the risk, and probably about time for me anyway.

Good points, all.

I believe we're all going to get Outed eventually. I figure I've done it plenty times without any help at all.

Sophisticated crooks? Heh heh heh. We are legion, our tech is badass, and few understand what we're up to. My greatest fear is that the government is letting us build a national surveillance system so they can take it over later.

For a rather less benign viewpoint on how spooky it can get, there's a great article on Gizmodo by Shoshona Wodinsky dated June 3, 2020. Creepy dialed up to 13. Oughta set your warning bells off.

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Online Erika_

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2020, 04:34:11 pm »
I just don't use facebook, makes things easier.

But I also had no social media before I transitioned anyway, so it's not a big change.

Online Laura1951

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2020, 05:52:26 pm »
Good points, all.

I believe we're all going to get Outed eventually. I figure I've done it plenty times without any help at all.

Sophisticated crooks? Heh heh heh. We are legion, our tech is badass, and few understand what we're up to. My greatest fear is that the government is letting us build a national surveillance system so they can take it over later.

For a rather less benign viewpoint on how spooky it can get, there's a great article on Gizmodo by Shoshona Wodinsky dated June 3, 2020. Creepy dialed up to 13. Oughta set your warning bells off.

oh, my god. what have I started with this thread? Seriously, I guess I should be surprised that I've not been outed yet and that discovering the little FB ploy gave me advance warning to dial Laura's footprint down.

And as for Gizmodo, thanks to @Battle Goddess for educating us about the dark side of data collection. Or, as the article says, one person's creepy is another person's identity resolution. Do check out the article. It is called Your Phone Is A Goldmine Of Hidden Data For Cops.

I continue to plead with Susan's administration to educate members about the likelihood of being outed if they have two Facebook accounts.

Laura


« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 02:54:36 am by Ellie_Arroway »

Online Susan

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2020, 06:38:16 pm »
We have absolutely no control over the actions of users or staff of or on third party sites. My recommendations for members on this site apply equally strong on any web site.

6. You should not give out personal information which may lead to you being identified, or contacted in person, by email or other means. If you chose to do so, then you also accept all accompanying risks. Aliases and the use of alternate identities, social media accounts, and email addresses are strongly encouraged.

With that said as Devlyn previously mentioned, we do not condone or recommend anyone breaking the TOS of this site or any others. That is the extent of our position on this issue.

With that said are free to discuss the issue provided that there is no suggestion of any obligation or responsibility accruing to this web site.
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Online Laura1951

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Re: Is FaceBook Outing Me?
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2020, 06:53:24 pm »
We have absolutely no control over the actions of users or staff of or on third party sites. My recommendations for members on this site apply equally strong on any web site.

6. You should not give out personal information which may lead to you being identified, or contacted in person, by email or other means. If you chose to do so, then you also accept all accompanying risks. Aliases and the use of alternate identities, social media accounts, and email addresses are strongly encouraged.

With that said as Devlyn previously mentioned, we do not condone or recommend anyone breaking the TOS of this site or any others. That is the extent of our position on this issue.

With that said are free to discuss the issue provided that there is no suggestion of any obligation or responsibility accruing to this web site.

Thank you @Susan for listening. I'm a bit speechless, so all I can say now to members is, caveat emptor. I'm thankful for all of you who have responded to this thread and particularly grateful about the in depth discussion about data collection.

Laura

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