Author Topic: Safe places for trans international travel  (Read 486 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline madeleine

  • *
  • Posts: 501
  • Reputation: +4/-0
  • Gender: Female
Safe places for trans international travel
« on: June 28, 2020, 11:35:45 am »
Right now this question is a little for fun fantasizing...(cue dream sequence music) ..."When (or if?) things get halfway back to normal, where would I go?"  But I am really curious what experiences people have had and what people have heard. What places they would avoid, etc.

To kick it off here are some places I'd like to go:
- Greece
- Egypt
- Peru
- France
- Turkey



Offline Julielynn

  • *
  • Posts: 259
  • Reputation: +1/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2020, 02:11:42 pm »
Posting mainly to make it easier to follow as I would also like to know of good places for that "awkward" time in between.

Offline Rachel

  • Family
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7,286
  • Reputation: +62/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2020, 03:05:12 pm »
I want to go to Mumbai Indian and Thailand. I was thinking of taking China Air and stopping in Peking.

I did not want to take a flight that would land in Turkey or UAE because I was thinking they are not trans friendly. So China air it is.

Any thoughts on India, Thailand or Peking China?

I am from the USA so that may have an impact as well.

Offline SadieBlake

  • *
  • Posts: 1,809
  • Reputation: +21/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2020, 03:35:34 pm »
I wouldn't want to live in Turkey as a trans woman, Greece's reputation is better if not great and I certainly would avoid traveling outside liberal urban areas there or in many parts of the world.

I wouldn't book a flight with a change of plans in any gulf state, being American is no guarantee that you won't be arrested in any of those nations. I've read about arrests there.

Thailand should be fine and being American should keep you safe in Beijing (but all of China has high theft rates and being western is a signal of relative wealth).

I've been warned that outside of the more cosmopolitan cities of Brazil, I'd be unsafe traveling there, I don't know about Peru.

I've traveled as obviously gender non conforming in or through

England
Scotland
France
Italy
Singapore
Philippines
Tokyo

The only place I was hassled was in Assisi Italy (relatively rural, conservative town). There and generally I'm wary of groups of male teens. I have no desire to be ganged up on, on the other hand, I'm not small and I do know how to be menacing if necessary.

I was treated better traveling through all these places than I've gotten in the Pittsburgh airport in the US. I used correct gender restrooms everywhere, though I was cautious in rural Italy. The only time I was questioned in a public restroom was in Singapore and I was direct and polite, it didn't escalate.

My $0.02
🌈👭 lesbian, troublemaker ;-) 🌈🏳️‍🌈

Offline sarahc

  • Sarah
  • *
  • Posts: 852
  • Reputation: +9/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2020, 05:04:19 pm »
My rule of thumb in deciding whether I feel comfortable going to a country is how I would feel if I needed to get hospitalized in that country.

Under that test, most anywhere in Western Europe is ok. Greece is ok in the touristy areas. Eastern Europe is a little iffier. Czechia is fine, but the further east and further south you go, the riskier it is. Russia - not a chance.

Middle East: Israel is fine, but I definitely would avoid pretty much any Muslim country, so Turkey and Egypt are out. I'm glad I got to visit some parts of the Middle East already.

East Asia: South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Japan are fine. Thailand should be generally ok, especially in the usual tourist areas. Only Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong feel safe to me in mainland China. Philippines: Manila only. I don't know about India - I certainly wouldn't feel great leaving the big cities or tourist areas. Again, no Muslim countries, so Indonesia and Malaysia are out, although maybe some relatively non-Muslim place like Bali I could get comfortable with. Aus/NZ perfectly safe, of course.

South America: I'd feel ok in the big cities in Brazil, coastal Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, and maybe Colombia. Everywhere else: no.

Africa: No no no - almost all of Africa is bad news for trans folks. I don't know if I'd even be comfortable in South Africa outside of the big cities. Maybe when I'm old and don't care anymore, I'll do a safari, but until then I am out of Africa.

The touristy areas of Mexico should be ok. Costa Rica is fine. I wouldn't go anywhere else in Central America, more because of the gangs than the transphobia. Canada is fine, of course.

Sarah
----
47 years young.
Known that I am trans since...forever.
First therapy session / decided to transition / hair removal: October 2018
HRT: January 2019 (journal https://www.susans.org/forums/index.phpVF/topic,244009.0.html)
VFS: September 2019; three-month report here
Full-time: April 2020
FFS: August 2020
SRS: January 2021

Offline RandyL

  • *
  • Posts: 1,084
  • Reputation: +11/-0
  • Gender: Questioning
  • Non-binary
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2020, 10:07:21 pm »
I was in Thailand last year, part of the time obviously gender non-conforming. I had no problems whatsoever, not even dirty looks. We went outside the tourist areas, some pretty rural places, and again no problems. Well, except for a cab driver in Bangkok who declined to pick us up. But I suspect he wasn't Thai.

Sent from my dual-floppy Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

Casting about for my best path forward...

Online AllieSF

  • *****
  • Posts: 758
  • Reputation: +5/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Ain't Life Grand!!
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2020, 11:21:33 pm »
Interesting topic and replies.  In my opinion, a lot really depends on how well one blends in as a women for us MtF's, or vice versa.  I have transitioned mostly so my name and gender has been changed on important travel documents.  My voice in not perfect, but good enough to maybe pass as a low voiced female.  So for me, I would feel generally safe wherever normal tourists would feel safe.  Getting hospitalized for some emergency health issue brings on further complications, which then one must really think about.  If you need treatment but that treatment is withheld because of gender orientations, .i.e MtF or FtM, then ????

So Latin America for me is no issue for me ( I also speak Spanish and have visited most South American countries already).  Asia, I really do not know.  Western Europe, should be no problem.  Africa, no idea.  Australia, go for it.  Antarctica, no one would really know since all residents there are really just visitors and all wrapped up in layers of worm clothing.  Middle East - could be a big problem area - think twice or three times.
HRT - February 2017
Full Time - July 2018
Orchi - January 2018
BA - September 25, 2019
FFS - January 10, 2020
GRS - TBDDD (To Be Determined, Decision and Date)

Offline zirconia

  • *
  • Posts: 562
  • Reputation: +8/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2020, 01:00:59 am »
Right now this question is a little for fun fantasizing...(cue dream sequence music) ..."When (or if?) things get halfway back to normal, where would I go?"  But I am really curious what experiences people have had and what people have heard. What places they would avoid, etc.

What is "trans international travel?"

Traveling with old documents that don't look like one?
Or "presenting" as a different sex than is marked on them?
Or traveling "out and proud" fully decked out "en femme?"
Or...?

For what it's worth, traveling with current documents that look like me I've never had any problems anywhere in the Mid-east, Africa, Asia, Russia, Oceania or America. I've not been to South America.

In Germany one clearly immigrant airport worker apparently didn't like that my passport said male, so she asked a police officer to take a look at it. LOL. Other than that Europe's also been totally uneventful.

Offline RandyL

  • *
  • Posts: 1,084
  • Reputation: +11/-0
  • Gender: Questioning
  • Non-binary
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2020, 10:22:44 am »
Re: "trans international" travel, I wish we still had Trans World Airline (TWA).

Sent from my dual-floppy Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

Casting about for my best path forward...

Offline madeleine

  • *
  • Posts: 501
  • Reputation: +4/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2020, 11:11:15 am »
What is "trans international travel?"

Traveling with old documents that don't look like one?
Or "presenting" as a different sex than is marked on them?
Or traveling "out and proud" fully decked out "en femme?"
Or...?

For what it's worth, traveling with current documents that look like me I've never had any problems anywhere in the Mid-east, Africa, Asia, Russia, Oceania or America. I've not been to South America.

In Germany one clearly immigrant airport worker apparently didn't like that my passport said male, so she asked a police officer to take a look at it. LOL. Other than that Europe's also been totally uneventful.

Hi, good question zirconia.  I meant "out and proud" fully decked out "en femme?" but your question shows how many different ways there are to think about this topic.

I've been to several of these countries disguised as a cis man (the disguise was apparently good because if fooled me too). But would I be comfortable going to Greece as my true feminine self?  I am out in public fairly regularly now, but going to Greece is different from going to the gas station.

Thanks for sharing yours and other's experiences actually doing this!  Clearly it can be done!

Offline madeleine

  • *
  • Posts: 501
  • Reputation: +4/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2020, 11:13:33 am »
Re: "trans international" travel, I wish we still had Trans World Airline (TWA).

Sent from my dual-floppy Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

Randy, you're probably too young to know this, but the "Trans" TWA wasn't THAT kind of trans.   ;)

They had a great logo, though.

Offline RandyL

  • *
  • Posts: 1,084
  • Reputation: +11/-0
  • Gender: Questioning
  • Non-binary
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2020, 12:43:16 pm »
Randy, you're probably too young to know this, but the "Trans" TWA wasn't THAT kind of trans.   ;)

They had a great logo, though.
Haha I didn't even recall their twin globes logo. With a certain viewpoint you can imagine something interesting with that I used to fly TWA a lot but it never got me to where I'm going. I'm older than you think

Sent from my dual-floppy Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

Casting about for my best path forward...

Offline TSL_NB

  • *
  • Posts: 72
  • Reputation: +1/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2020, 09:33:50 pm »
Haha I didn't even recall their twin globes logo. With a certain viewpoint you can imagine something interesting with that I used to fly TWA a lot but it never got me to where I'm going. I'm older than you think

Sent from my dual-floppy Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

I remember their old television commercial jingle ('You're gonna like us...TWAaaaayyyy,' or something like that).
It took over 40 years to realise, and believe, that what I am NOT, is a mistake.

Offline Dorit

  • *
  • Posts: 334
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2020, 03:05:25 am »
Between Greece and Egypt on your list is one of the most trans friendly, gay friendly countries in the world.  Israel!  No problem with a medical emergency either, we have a public health system that is aware and supports transgender health.  I might be a bit biased, but Israel is an awesome, geographically, religiously, and culturally diversified country.   By the way, I would not go to Egypt unless all your documents and photos match your appearance.   
I first told a psychiatrist that I wanted to be a girl 1967 after a psychotic breakdown
Began therapy again with gender specialist 50 years later in September 2017
Began HRT November 2017
Name change with Israel Ministry of Interior March 2018
FFS September 2018
GCS December 2018
Gender change with Israel Ministry of Interior January 2019
BA July 2020

Offline SadieBlake

  • *
  • Posts: 1,809
  • Reputation: +21/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2020, 12:36:10 pm »
Between Greece and Egypt on your list is one of the most trans friendly, gay friendly countries in the world.  Israel!  No problem with a medical emergency either, we have a public health system that is aware and supports transgender health.  I might be a bit biased, but Israel is an awesome, geographically, religiously, and culturally diversified country.   By the way, I would not go to Egypt unless all your documents and photos match your appearance.

On the face of it, that would contradict what I've heard about the non-cosmopolitan areas of Israel. I have a friend in school in Israel (Beersheba) who's not at all happy about her treatment as a woman (like she's not even out about being lesbian).

From Wikipedia:

Quote
Treatment for gender dysphoria in Israel can be paid for using the country's public health insurance system if a patient receives approval by the Committee for Sex Reassignment operating out of Sheba Medical Center in Tel HaShomer, which consists of an endocrinologist, a urologist, and a plastic surgeon and is organized by the Health Ministry. All sex reassignment surgery operations in Israel are furthermore performed by Dr. Haim Kaplan at Sheba Medical Center under this committee's approval. However, many transgender Israelis have had trouble getting approval for treatment by this committee due to their stringent opinions on gender dysphoria. Thus, many pay out of pocket for hormone replacement therapy and/or go overseas for sex reassignment surgery.[41]

It sounds like you're there, is your experience more positive than that would have me think? Granted this is how it is for residents, not visitors.
🌈👭 lesbian, troublemaker ;-) 🌈🏳️‍🌈

Offline Dorit

  • *
  • Posts: 334
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Safe places for trans international travel
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2020, 01:21:08 am »
On the face of it, that would contradict what I've heard about the non-cosmopolitan areas of Israel. I have a friend in school in Israel (Beersheba) who's not at all happy about her treatment as a woman (like she's not even out about being lesbian).

From Wikipedia:

It sounds like you're there, is your experience more positive than that would have me think? Granted this is how it is for residents, not visitors.

I transitioned in a small town in the Galilee of Israel.  It seems your friend has had a negative experience, also that last quote must be from years ago.  Dr. Haim Kaplan is not the GRS surgeon at Sheba, I myself went through the sex change Committee two years ago and he was not there. Also, HRT is not connected to the Committee, I began before my first appointment with them.  Like many places in the world, Israel has undergone what I would call a revolution in transgender acceptance and health.  The Sheba committee is not the same as it was years ago.   However, because we have public health there are gate keepers along the path.   It is the "price" of free surgeries.   Not everyone can accept this, so some go to Thailand if they can afford it. I myself passed the Committee and therefore qualified for GRS and BA, but could not wait my turn and had the resource, so I did my GRS in the US.  My revision and BA is next week at Sheba even though I did my original GRS outside Israel, and it is of no cost.
I first told a psychiatrist that I wanted to be a girl 1967 after a psychotic breakdown
Began therapy again with gender specialist 50 years later in September 2017
Began HRT November 2017
Name change with Israel Ministry of Interior March 2018
FFS September 2018
GCS December 2018
Gender change with Israel Ministry of Interior January 2019
BA July 2020

Tags: