Author Topic: Depression from trying to pass  (Read 890 times)

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Offline RachelTG

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Depression from trying to pass
« on: October 27, 2020, 07:59:47 am »
I have been on hormones for over a year and am going through the hoops for three surgeries (top, bottom and voice).  I have changed my name, my drivers license, passport (soon) and everyone refers to me as Rachel. My coworkers, family, friends have been awesome so what's the problem. So, what's the problem? Despite all that, I tend to face every day feeling I will never be a real female. I will never "look" female and even though I am accepted as Rachel, I am the guy in the wig wearing makeup.

How does anyone get past this and just accept who you are? Just writing this makes me sad.....

Offline Devlyn

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2020, 08:20:20 am »
I'm Devlyn, the part man/part woman genderfluid person. I love myself for being that. Love yourself and others will follow your lead. And who cares about the ones that don't. That's how you get past it.

Hugs, Devlyn
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Offline davina61

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2020, 08:40:03 am »
Well I never expect to pass, do some times but as Devlin said just be you and foo wee to any one else.
a long time coming (out) HRT 12 2017


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Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2020, 08:45:20 am »
Rachel, it'll take time. My mentor in college, a brilliant man who advises presidents and prime ministers, said the longer we wear a mask, the more our face conforms to the mask.

I think of being female as a role. You are new to the role and like anyone in a new role, you feel like a pretender. A newly-minted CEO, with sufficient courage to be honest, would admit to feeling like a pretender. The same with a just crowned queen.

Have you seen the great movie, "Elizabeth"? There's a scene where the newly minted queen, played by Kate Blanchett, must walk through the court, feigning a queen's confidence and strength. She manages it by pretending, but by the movie's end, there's no more pretending. She isn't just a queen, but the queen.

The more you are seen as female and the more female you become via surgical corrections, the more you'll believe you're female. Be patient. It's coming.

Online Northern Star Girl

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2020, 08:54:03 am »
I'm Devlyn, the part man/part woman genderfluid person. I love myself for being that. Love yourself and others will follow your lead. And who cares about the ones that don't. That's how you get past it.

Hugs, Devlyn

@RachelTG
Dear Rachel:
In my opinion... EXACTLY the right view regarding how we judge our feelings about ourselves during our unique journeys...

Thank you @Devlyn for sharing your perspective.


HUGS,
Danielle
***SEE MY LINKS BELOW
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A New Chapter: ALASKAN DANIELLE's Chronicles
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Started HRT:   March 2015
Went Full-Time    December 2016
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Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2020, 09:20:06 am »
@RachelTG
Dear Rachel:
In my opinion... EXACTLY the right view regarding how we judge our feelings about ourselves during our unique journeys...

Thank you @Devlyn for sharing your perspective.


HUGS,
Danielle


My quibble with Devlyn's perspective, specifically, "who cares about the ones that don't," is that I do care and if you don't you should, for the worst of those "that don't" might murder us. You might take proactive counter-measures, like carrying a gun or a mace, but weapons don't matter if you're bushwhacked. I once asked a competitive martial arts fighter what would happen if she were jumped and she said, "I'd go down just like you would."

"So, it's not like the movies then?"

"No."

So, I asked her boyfriend who was 6'2" and hard all over and also a competitive fighter the same question.

He said, "I'd go down too."


Offline Devlyn

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2020, 10:03:28 am »
@RachelTG
Dear Rachel:
In my opinion... EXACTLY the right view regarding how we judge our feelings about ourselves during our unique journeys...

Thank you @Devlyn for sharing your perspective.


HUGS,
Danielle


My quibble with Devlyn's perspective, specifically, "who cares about the ones that don't," is that I do care and if you don't you should, for the worst of those "that don't" might murder us. You might take proactive counter-measures, like carrying a gun or a mace, but weapons don't matter if you're bushwhacked. I once asked a competitive martial arts fighter what would happen if she were jumped and she said, "I'd go down just like you would."

"So, it's not like the movies then?"

"No."

So, I asked her boyfriend who was 6'2" and hard all over and also a competitive fighter the same question.

He said, "I'd go down too."



People are murdered for money they don't even have in their wallet. I'm security aware when I'm out and about, but if I'm going to spend my days petrified of the "what ifs", I've already given away my life and happiness.

Also, the O/P asked for advice on how to get past these feelings. Have you no thoughts on this...or are you advocating for her to live unhappily? You've offered her no practical advice.
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Offline barbie

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2020, 11:26:43 am »
Everybody is unique, and it does not matter so much whether you look beautiful or ugly. In retrospect, I think self-confidence is the most important not only in passing but in interacting with people in society. Love yourself.



barbie~~



Offline Margrit

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2020, 02:52:26 pm »
Everybody is unique, and it does not matter so much whether you look beautiful or ugly. In retrospect, I think self-confidence is the most important not only in passing but in interacting with people in society. Love yourself.



barbie~~

I am agree, how very true!
If a man can make you smile,
even if you don't want to,
then you love him.

Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2020, 04:13:29 pm »
My quibble with Devlyn's perspective, specifically, "who cares about the ones that don't," is that I do care and if you don't you should, for the worst of those "that don't" might murder us. You might take proactive counter-measures, like carrying a gun or a mace, but weapons don't matter if you're bushwhacked. I once asked a competitive martial arts fighter what would happen if she were jumped and she said, "I'd go down just like you would."

"So, it's not like the movies then?"

"No."

So, I asked her boyfriend who was 6'2" and hard all over and also a competitive fighter the same question.

He said, "I'd go down too."




People are murdered for money they don't even have in their wallet. I'm security aware when I'm out and about, but if I'm going to spend my days petrified of the "what ifs", I've already given away my life and happiness.

Also, the O/P asked for advice on how to get past these feelings. Have you no thoughts on this...or are you advocating for her to live unhappily? You've offered her no practical advice.

Quote
The more you are seen as female and the more female you become via surgical corrections, the more you'll believe you're female. Be patient. It's coming.

Online Northern Star Girl

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2020, 04:43:02 pm »
   If you want others to accept you,
    you first have to accept yourself.
***SEE MY LINKS BELOW
The Ramblings of a Northern*Star Girl
A New Chapter: ALASKAN DANIELLE's Chronicles
I am the HUNTED PREY: Danielle’s Chronicles
Things change re: ALASKAN DANIELLE
Positive Mindset... put away negativity

Started HRT:   March 2015
Went Full-Time    December 2016
Quit my male-mode job and relocated to a very small town in Alaska in January 2017
I'm a blonde, blue eyed woman, Age 40

Offline Allie Jayne

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2020, 05:18:42 pm »
Rachel, I know I will never pass, and I will never see myself as a woman. My nightmares before transition were that nobody would accept me, and I would live out my days lonely and afraid, but that hasn’t come to reality. I’m trans, I didn’t want to be trans, but that’s what happened to me. I’m not proud of being trans, as it wasn’t something I decided to do, but it is my life now. People treat me nicely, and I have a life, so I count my blessings and live every day the best I can.

You will probably never accept yourself fully, but you will grow into your role.

Hugs,

Allie

Offline Pammie

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2020, 05:49:41 pm »
I’m fairly open on SP that passing is critical for me and so I do understand your concerns.
What I would say is be patient and understand it’s a journey not a 5 minute sprint.
You are lucky in that you are able to get surgeries which will certainly help (though I would personally advise not to rush into BA until you give hormones at least 3 years to do their.thing (I just had a growth spurt between 2.5 and 3 years on E). And you will see and feel progressively more as you want and need to be. As O&C said you also grow into your new life, you get more confident and feel more authentic and that helps to pass too!
I’d endorse those who say love yourself and don’t judge yourself against unrealistic targets. Of course i’m not a role model as i still care far too much about bloody passing.


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Offline CaelaNotKayla

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2020, 06:26:29 pm »
Rachel- 

I think it's all part of the mix- For me it starts with being comfortable in myself- knowing that there are things that I can't change about myself, and still being able to look in the mirror and see the girl looking out of my eyes.  Yes, 46 years of T has made it's mark on me- but I had to stop focusing on my negatives, and keep my eyes on my positives.  I really do feel that the wig doesn't make the girl- she makes herself! 

I got clocked by a male clerk while shopping the other day, and I chose to focus on the 10 other clerks who didn't clock me-  I won't let one bad experience ruin my fun!

Big Hugs!

Caela
My Blog Thread - The Chronicles of Caela

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Offline Pammie

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2020, 06:29:56 pm »
Rachel- 

I think it's all part of the mix- For me it starts with being comfortable in myself- knowing that there are things that I can't change about myself, and still being able to look in the mirror and see the girl looking out of my eyes.  Yes, 46 years of T has made it's mark on me- but I had to stop focusing on my negatives, and keep my eyes on my positives.  I really do feel that the wig doesn't make the girl- she makes herself! 

I got clocked by a male clerk while shopping the other day, and I chose to focus on the 10 other clerks who didn't clock me-  I won't let one bad experience ruin my fun!

Big Hugs!

Caela
Well done Caela - that’s so empowering!


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Offline Rachel

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2020, 09:24:38 pm »
Hi Rachel,

I focused on changing:
drivers license,
birth certificate,
Social Security
professional license,
Post op with department of state form signed by my GCS doctor, 10 year passport.

Passing, I have been on HRT almost 7.5 years. It takes time. I had my BA 4 years after starting HRT. I was to have it with my GCS but there were issues with the GCS.

I had a lot of procedures and I wish the first one was GCS. I got a huge amount of relief from GCS. FFS did wonders for me too. Then hair transplants and a BA. Voice, still in the healing phase of operation #3.

I never think about passing now. At one point I was a mess and hyper vigilant. But at some point I remember sitting in my car after work and thinking I did not feel awkward or out of place anymore.

From that point on I just felt more and more comfortable in my skin. It took time for me and a lot of work.

Rachel
MTF in need of help link https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,133631.1980.html
MTF in need of help 2 link https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,251825.0.html
HRT  5-28-2013
FT   11-13-2015
FFS   9-16-2016 -Spiegel
GCS 11-15-2016 - McGinn
Hair Grafts 3-20-2017 - Cooley
Voice therapy start 3-2017 - Reene Blaker
Labiaplasty 5-15-2017 - McGinn
BA 7-12-2017 - McGinn
Hair grafts 9-25-2017 Dr.Cooley
Sataloff Cricothyroid subluxation and trachea shave12-11-2017
Dr. McGinn labiaplasty, hood repair, scar removal, graph repair and bottom of  vagina finished. urethra repositioned. 4-4-2018
Dr. Sataloff Glottoplasty 5-14-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal in office procedure 10-22-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal revision 2 4-3-2019 Bottom of vagina closed off, fat injected into the labia and urethra repositioned.
Dr. Thomas FemLar 10/13/2020

Offline SarahEL

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2020, 10:00:55 pm »
When someone verbalises to you that you do not pass (by calling you sir or something) then that is a criticism..
I find criticism very hard to deal with, even if I bake a cake and someone doesn't like it.. urghh!.. hate it..
So, I completely understand why females are so hurt by not 'passing' (and I include all females in this, cis and trans - societial pressures on how we look are stupidly opressive)..
But, if you consider it as a criticism from that person and not a failure, you can look at it in a slightly different way - was it constructive, did you get anything from it that was useful, or was the wielder of that criticism just an idiot..

There are ways to handle criticism - They work for times when someone says you don't pass...

  • Stop Your First Reaction. If your first reaction is to lash back at the person giving the criticism, or to become defensive, take a minute before reacting at all.
  • Turn a Negative Into a Positive.
  • Thank the Critic.
  • Learn from the Criticism.
  • Be the Better Person.

Then, as Cae said, putting it into context, are you not passing for everyone you meet? if not, what was the 'thing' that caused this criticism.. can you do anything about it, do you want to? In the end, it is only their view and they are not everyone... Context is everything..
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Offline Dorit

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2020, 09:26:18 am »
Rachel, I think there is a lot of good, practical advice here.  I too struggled in the beginning about passing.  While some of us might be emotionally strong to take on any public misgender reactions, for some of us it can be devastating and depressing. We just have to realize that this takes time and have patience plus a long term perspective.  You will pass through a "transition" and come out the other side as a women accepted as such.  It happened to me.
I first told a psychiatrist that I wanted to be a girl 1967 after a psychotic breakdown
Began therapy again with gender specialist 50 years later in September 2017
Began HRT November 2017
Name change with Israel Ministry of Interior March 2018
FFS September 2018
GCS December 2018
Gender change with Israel Ministry of Interior January 2019
BA July 2020

Offline Pammie

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2020, 05:34:31 pm »
Rachel, You will pass through a "transition" and come out the other side as a women accepted as such.  It happened to me.
Yes, good advice


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Offline Rachel

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Re: Depression from trying to pass
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2020, 03:45:30 pm »
Hi,

A lot of things changed during the past 7.75 years. I lost a lot of weight, I started at 220 or 230 and am 169 now and at 6'1".

When I started out my clothing choices were not the best. I focused on all the negatives on how I looked and sounded.

I have done my best to erase the T changes. I love being me now. More than the physical looks but how I changed internally. I feel very much at ease and have a lot of confidence.

There was a time I felt others thought I was out of place and did not belong; that I was an imposter. I absolutely do not feel that way now. I gained my confidence by several feedback ways.

Anyhow all feelings reside in you. Associating how you feel and assuming others feel as you think they feel is not real; it is in your head. Unless there is conformation. Most people do not care. Some guys are turned on by it. Some people have religious views against trans. In the end, it does not matter and they do not walk in your shoes.  T does some nasty things over time and there is just so much you can reverse.

Surgeries,
If I were to do it again I would have gone to a more aggressive surgeon for FFS ( not doing that again, no way). I went to Dr. Spiegel, who was awesome. (Maybe I just need my face lift and all will be good.)  I need another face lift as I lost weight and there is only so much that can be done with extensive FFS as far as a face lift, at that time of the FFS. BA, because I lost weight I am fine with the 550 ml ( I wear a 38 D and just ordered a DD; I am on the first set of hooks on the 38D, I may need a 36 DDD). If I was 220 I would need another 250 or 300 ml. I want additional fat injected in my vulva and some labia work, minor (is it worth it, yes to me it is. Will I do it, IDK. I have had no complaints). Hair transplants round 3 yup some day but not high on the list. I would love some fat in my butt but IDK, low on list.

Voice, I recommend proceeding with utmost care. Really do research on the subject and doctor. I went to the "best doctor" and had a CTS and then a glottoplasty. I would not recommend a CTS and he put the web in the middle of the vocal fold ( I am serious he did that to me). Round three I went to Dr. Thomas. He would not undo the CTS. He removed the anterior vocal fold ( I am sooooo thankful), took down some of the glottoplasty and stretched the  vocal fold to the the anterior which was removed. He did FemLar too. So far I am very pleased and I know I have some time yet to heal. I wish I never did operation 1 & 2 on my voice.

Makeup
I use to wear it but with Covid I stopped. Masking just messes up makeup. I am thinking of some eye makeup though. I stopped going to the nail salon too.

Group
I found from going to group that I am very lucky. Some peeps have to do street work to eat and live in the subway in packs for safety. Some live in abandoned houses. Some get involved in heavy drugs. I had a bunch of friends that died. It helped to put my insecurities into perspective. They were there but I knew I was very lucky. I had/have a lot of conversation in my head about how I perceive I look to others. I found it to be wrong. Most people just do not care.

Rachel


MTF in need of help link https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,133631.1980.html
MTF in need of help 2 link https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,251825.0.html
HRT  5-28-2013
FT   11-13-2015
FFS   9-16-2016 -Spiegel
GCS 11-15-2016 - McGinn
Hair Grafts 3-20-2017 - Cooley
Voice therapy start 3-2017 - Reene Blaker
Labiaplasty 5-15-2017 - McGinn
BA 7-12-2017 - McGinn
Hair grafts 9-25-2017 Dr.Cooley
Sataloff Cricothyroid subluxation and trachea shave12-11-2017
Dr. McGinn labiaplasty, hood repair, scar removal, graph repair and bottom of  vagina finished. urethra repositioned. 4-4-2018
Dr. Sataloff Glottoplasty 5-14-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal in office procedure 10-22-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal revision 2 4-3-2019 Bottom of vagina closed off, fat injected into the labia and urethra repositioned.
Dr. Thomas FemLar 10/13/2020

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