Author Topic: Jenn's Journey  (Read 2793 times)

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Offline Rachel Montgomery

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2021, 03:44:22 pm »
When I first came out to her (reminder, I was suicidal at the time), she said that my being transgender was "a gift from God".

Does anyone here think she was right?  If so, what are we supposed to do with this "gift"?  Are we (those given the alleged "gift" SUPPOSED to see life from both perspectives?  I don't feel like I do.  Perhaps if I lived as a woman I might.  I am not sure I have ever 100% had the male experience either, though closer to that.

Offline RandiL

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2021, 01:57:52 am »


When I first came out to her (reminder, I was suicidal at the time), she said that my being transgender was "a gift from God".

Does anyone here think she was right?  If so, what are we supposed to do with this "gift"?  Are we (those given the alleged "gift" SUPPOSED to see life from both perspectives?  I don't feel like I do.  Perhaps if I lived as a woman I might.  I am not sure I have ever 100% had the male experience either, though closer to that.

Another trans friend posted about this recently on FB. She has completed her transition and is happily married to another transwoman.

She feels that, yes, she is privileged to have seen life from both sides. She has insights and perspectives that no cis person can ever have. Not that life has been easy or that she would have chosen this path. But there is a silver lining.

For myself, I'm not inclined to insight. I often take things and people at face value. I certainly am a long way from understanding the female perspective. But I also feel a distance from the male perspective, that I have left much of it behind. I feel sorry for so many men. I think they're trapped by a fear of not being seen as manly enough. I used to feel that way myself. It has been so liberating to free myself from that and I'm grateful for having this opportunity.

My smartphone thinks it's smarter than me. It's probably right.

Forging my new, best life as Randi

My personal blog thread: Randi the lost traveler, finding the right road at last

My HRT thread: Randi's HRT Journal


Offline jennifer7020

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #62 on: September 07, 2021, 07:59:41 am »
Back from a nice long weekend away with friends. A really good time and valued time away from daily stress. My wife managed her anxiety about me pretty well. So it was truly good.

therapy tomorrow.

taking some mental notes and consulting my private journal. I have a mix of personal observations about myself and how my wife is handling things. I notice my body hair bothers me, more than ever. I've awoken 3 times in the last 2 weeks pulling it off my body in while I sleep. I noticed over the weekend when my wife said things like "the men can go get drinks" I felt pain, or that I had to supress saying something. things like that..

and.. I am going to bounce one last thing off my therapist. No more 1/2 truths. If my wife asks about something, just tell her. Completely. No more evasions. No more talking my wife out of some asks ("you don't need to ask that" stuff). I think it is a start on a path for my marriage. I am sad but resigned too.

well. let's see how it goes.


Offline Rachel Montgomery

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2021, 11:45:21 am »
I am going to bounce one last thing off my therapist. No more 1/2 truths. If my wife asks about something, just tell her. Completely. No more evasions. No more talking my wife out of some asks ("you don't need to ask that" stuff). I think it is a start on a path for my marriage. I am sad but resigned too.

well. let's see how it goes.

I am glad that you had a nice trip. 

Best wishes on the honesty and openness.  I think it is the right thing to do, even if it doesn't sit well with her.

Offline jennifer7020

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2021, 08:45:43 am »
Yesterday's therapy session went well! Perhaps better than I expected. I truly-madly-deeply believe my therapist is awesome. She is what I thought I was getting (and I did screen multiple therapists).

We're working through multiple issues. I sort them as "me" and "me and my wife". I'll add that one is the other on some level. I can't work on me without it effecting my wife and our relationship. The big picture in the last few sessions is a kind of dance.. "yeah.. HRT makes sense for me in a vacuum" vs "wait wait.. my wife just found out and is struggling". I personally have mentioned I really struggle with the 1/2 truths to get my wife through another day.

I admitted to a level of emotional exhaustion. Having to explain again.. and again.. and again.. and yep! a little more.. is tiring. My therapist's take was to slow down. Let my wife know I am tired. To encourage my wife to stop thinking-thinking-thinking about what it all means.. and get a little "us" time. We're empty nesters-- either biking or a kayak day is on for Saturday.

That good thing is balanced by some guidance to be truthful but mindful my wife is still getting used to things. There are a lot of nuances here. Some inane.  I think I've gotten good advice. If I said everything flat out and bluntly.. I'd be looking at changed locks. As it is my wife's gone from no-changes-ever to a kind of gentler "well.. shave/wax your back and chest.. at least that is kind of normal". I'd take every last bit of hair off my body. Not yet the time to insist on that. mmm Same for support groups. My wife -irrationally- looks at a large local (boston) group as ummm a place to get tutorials not an outlet or safe space for support. working on that.

sigh

finally.. My therapist and I talked a lot about what I want. How I'd proceed. Ideally my wife would say something like "Hey! I have a line in the sand.. but I get it. experiment. if you need to cross that line I have.. you do. we can figure out how to go there. as friends or ..". What I have is "do nothing. any change is full change. sorry not sorry.". In the context of a discussion in therapy I totally get the unfairness of that. I am open to finding an outlet that is a compromise. I am not willing to be in a box. My therapist and I are working through the specifics. I've got a few homework items.

stay tuned. working through much. feeling good about myself and less exhausted.



Offline Pammie

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2021, 01:58:03 pm »
Yesterday's therapy session went well! Perhaps better than I expected. I truly-madly-deeply believe my therapist is awesome. She is what I thought I was getting (and I did screen multiple therapists).

We're working through multiple issues. I sort them as "me" and "me and my wife". I'll add that one is the other on some level. I can't work on me without it effecting my wife and our relationship. The big picture in the last few sessions is a kind of dance.. "yeah.. HRT makes sense for me in a vacuum" vs "wait wait.. my wife just found out and is struggling". I personally have mentioned I really struggle with the 1/2 truths to get my wife through another day.

I admitted to a level of emotional exhaustion. Having to explain again.. and again.. and again.. and yep! a little more.. is tiring. My therapist's take was to slow down. Let my wife know I am tired. To encourage my wife to stop thinking-thinking-thinking about what it all means.. and get a little "us" time. We're empty nesters-- either biking or a kayak day is on for Saturday.

That good thing is balanced by some guidance to be truthful but mindful my wife is still getting used to things. There are a lot of nuances here. Some inane.  I think I've gotten good advice. If I said everything flat out and bluntly.. I'd be looking at changed locks. As it is my wife's gone from no-changes-ever to a kind of gentler "well.. shave/wax your back and chest.. at least that is kind of normal". I'd take every last bit of hair off my body. Not yet the time to insist on that. mmm Same for support groups. My wife -irrationally- looks at a large local (boston) group as ummm a place to get tutorials not an outlet or safe space for support. working on that.

sigh

finally.. My therapist and I talked a lot about what I want. How I'd proceed. Ideally my wife would say something like "Hey! I have a line in the sand.. but I get it. experiment. if you need to cross that line I have.. you do. we can figure out how to go there. as friends or ..". What I have is "do nothing. any change is full change. sorry not sorry.". In the context of a discussion in therapy I totally get the unfairness of that. I am open to finding an outlet that is a compromise. I am not willing to be in a box. My therapist and I are working through the specifics. I've got a few homework items.

stay tuned. working through much. feeling good about myself and less exhausted.
Well done you! I think that’s real progress and I love and recognise your passion! Xx


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Offline jennifer7020

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #66 on: September 10, 2021, 08:06:29 am »
I realize I am in a quiet and somber mood in advance of 9-11. I watched some video reflections of children who have almost no memory of a parent or in one case both parents. I knew people both directly and through their children in both towers. One person killed was traveling for work, in a job I was informally asked to interview for (and I declined the chance).

Thinking about the events of the day puts the issues in my life into a different perspective.


Offline Pammie

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #67 on: September 10, 2021, 10:09:46 am »
I realize I am in a quiet and somber mood in advance of 9-11. I watched some video reflections of children who have almost no memory of a parent or in one case both parents. I knew people both directly and through their children in both towers. One person killed was traveling for work, in a job I was informally asked to interview for (and I declined the chance).

Thinking about the events of the day puts the issues in my life into a different perspective.
Yes, it is big events that puts our challenges into perspective. When my daughter died in 2019 I was left in total despair and my transition challenges were just trivia. Since then I’ve just got on with my life because being me is easy compared to living with my grief. Xx


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Offline jennifer7020

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2021, 10:35:25 am »
Things have not gone well.

Over the weekend my wife finally asked for more specifics, what is my particular kind of dysphoria like? I was honest.. at times I look in the mirror and think 'who is that?' or 'this isn't me'. Generally.. my body hair bothers me, more at some times than others. I phrased it as some parts are missing and some parts are extra, with -erm- apropos gestures. Maybe a few other details. I tried to be honest not lurid or sensation, keeping details reasonable.

It didnt go well from there.

Her take is quite literally  "I don't want a marriage where my husband wants breasts. twenty minutes a day or once a year".  Plus a lot of other -erm- opinions that are not quite as polite or printable. I've repeatedly clung to "I just want an outlet and support. we've got 30+ years of marriage here, we can find a way".

We've been in separate bedrooms 2 nights. the word she used was pretty strong - disgust. she's asked me to begin looking for places to stay "until I figure it out".

We'll be doing some joint time with my therapist. Its my personality to be an optimist but I am feeling like we're on the downward spiral. There is a kind of fear of the unknown that I am aware of, the what-is-next thing.

stay tuned.


Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #69 on: September 14, 2021, 11:33:17 am »
You're in a tough spot for sure, Jenn. Your marriage might not survive. However, I am glad you are keeping your wife in the loop. One thing she might not be considering is this: Should you divorce, you will both be poorer. Unless you have accumulated enough wealth to be individually wealthy, divorce might me scrapping. Old age is hard. Old age while being pinched by finances is even harder.

Offline Jessica_Rose

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2021, 11:59:30 am »
Jenn, I am saddened that it did not go well for you. My wife and I stayed in separate bedrooms for months after I told her, but eventually she realized that I was becoming a better person. It takes two special people for a successful relationship -- partners who are patient, loving, and willing to work for a better life together. However, personal feelings and experiences along with possible homophobia and transphobia play an important role. Don't give up too quickly, there is always a chance that things may work out.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

Offline jennifer7020

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2021, 12:11:12 pm »
Jenn, I am saddened that it did not go well for you. My wife and I stayed in separate bedrooms for months after I told her, but eventually she realized that I was becoming a better person. It takes two special people for a successful relationship -- partners who are patient, loving, and willing to work for a better life together. However, personal feelings and experiences along with possible homophobia and transphobia play an important role. Don't give up too quickly, there is always a chance that things may work out.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

thanks.

I told my wife it is like throwing a rock in a pond. we have to ride out the waves. Its complicated. She is most definitely having -erm- all kinds of phobias. Plus feeling lied to for 30+ years. I want to put in some work. I don't see how separating will make anything better..

but here we are

Offline Pammie

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #72 on: September 14, 2021, 02:03:09 pm »
You're in a tough spot for sure, Jenn. Your marriage might not survive. However, I am glad you are keeping your wife in the loop. One thing she might not be considering is this: Should you divorce, you will both be poorer. Unless you have accumulated enough wealth to be individually wealthy, divorce might me scrapping. Old age is hard. Old age while being pinched by finances is even harder.
God, staying for money would be pretty shallow wouldn’t it?


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Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #73 on: September 14, 2021, 02:23:26 pm »
Pammie, staying IN PART for money would be pragmatic. I don't know Jenn's financial situation, but I have seen women impoverished by divorce. Poverty doesn't just affect one person. Poverty can engender dependence, so family members who step up and subsidize an impoverished sibling or parent have their standard of living also reduced. Not considering the impact of money would be inconsiderate.

Offline Pammie

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #74 on: September 14, 2021, 02:26:57 pm »
Pammie, staying IN PART for money would be pragmatic. I don't know Jenn's financial situation, but I have seen women impoverished by divorce. Poverty doesn't just affect one person. Poverty can engender dependence, so family members who step up and subsidize an impoverished sibling or parent have their standard of living also reduced. Not considering the impact of money would be inconsiderate.
I understand your perspective but I have to say that it’s an horrendous reason to stay together. Love is the basis for a relationship, not money. I could never stay with a man for the sake of money. Im a romantic though, definitely not a pragmatist in affairs of the heart.


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Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2021, 03:05:50 pm »
You and I have a different sense of what constitutes "horrendous," Pammie. For me, pedophilia is horrendous. Slavery and rape too. When you squander a word like "horrendous" on a pragmatic decision, what descriptor(s) remains for the truly horrendous elements of life? 

« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 05:09:03 am by Oldandcreaky »

Offline jennifer7020

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2021, 03:14:49 pm »
I understand your perspective but I have to say that it’s an horrendous reason to stay together. Love is the basis for a relationship, not money. I could never stay with a man for the sake of money. Im a romantic though, definitely not a pragmatist in affairs of the heart.


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I agree that doing anything solely for money is shallow and doomed to fail.

I live in the Boston/USA 'burbs. I graduated college with less than $100 to my name. Now my house is paid off. I have extra income for travel and fun. I would not anticipate being divorce poor, although I'd lose the house and the upper-middle class lifestyle. I realize the incredible privilege I have in saying that. Transition is - for me anyway - about coming out happier on the other side. There is a part of me shaking as I write this, thinking about not transitioning.  Losing my wife, possibly (adult) children, certainly friends is far more painful to think of than money or lifestyle. But I am only human.  No one wants to sign up to be poor unless they have to. In my own journey, I am figuring out what have to means..

Offline Pammie

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2021, 03:15:17 pm »
You and I have a different sense of what constitutes "horrendous," Pammie. For me, pedophilia is horrendous. Slavery and rape too. When you squander a word like "horrendous" on a pragmatic decision, what descriptor(s) remains for the truly horrendous elements of life? 

FYI, I'm the one who is tapped by others for financial support. Most people decline to assist, but my heart compels me to do so. Love and loyalty aren't abstractions for me.
I don’t accept that the only things that can be horrendous are the MOST horrendous things. But that’s just me.
Love and loyalty are very definitely not abstractions for me either but hanging onto a relationship because of money is neither of those things.


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Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2021, 04:52:59 pm »
Pammie, considering the financial impact of divorce is horrendous and gang rape is most horrendous?

Jenn, if you reread what I wrote, you'll see that I wasn't urging you to consider the financial impact of divorce, but your wife. If she won't be solvent enough to be independent, she should line up her sugar sons/daughters/friends/parents and clear their $$$ support ahead of time.

« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 05:09:48 am by Oldandcreaky »

Offline Pammie

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2021, 09:15:07 pm »
Pammie, considering the financial impact of divorce is horrendous and gang rape is most horrendous?

Jenn, if you reread what I wrote, you'll see that I wasn't urging you to consider the financial impact of divorce, but your wife. If she won't be solvent enough to be independent, she should line up her sugar sons/daughters/friends/parents and clear their $$$ support ahead of time.

When my dad was leaving his second wife for another woman, I warned him that poverty awaited.

"I'll be fine," he assured me.

That was years ago and seven-grand-a-year-from-my-portfolio ago. I also keep a sister afloat. Not considering finances can have far-reaching consequences.
I think you are being disingenuous in your interpretation of my words. My point was that horrendous is not solely a word that can be applied only to the most horrendous of crimes (e.g. gang rape). Horrendous is also used to describe other things in their context. For instance football commentators use the term “horrendous tackle” and that is also legitimate in its context without being silly and arguing that it is hardly on a par with gang rape.
Are you saying your dad should have said to himself “hey, I may love this woman but im better off financially staying with my second wife so that’s what I’ll do?” - I can imagine the happiness!
You are not the only person who financially support family members by the way - it’s a very familiar pain!


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