Author Topic: Jenn's Journey  (Read 2888 times)

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Offline davina61

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #80 on: September 15, 2021, 02:16:30 am »
Yes I have never had much money but between us we bought a house and raised 3 kids, then I dropped the trans bomb and spent 2 nights in the spare room before being kicked out. Skint but happy now in my own place living as ME.
Mum has been drip feeding me my inheritance to keep me afloat.
a long time coming (out) HRT 12 2017


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Offline jennifer7020

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #81 on: September 15, 2021, 07:56:32 am »

Jenn, if you reread what I wrote, you'll see that I wasn't urging you to consider the financial impact of divorce, but your wife. If she won't be solvent enough to be independent, she should line up her sugar sons/daughters/friends/parents and clear their $$$ support ahead of time.

I did misread and thank you for pointing this out.

Neither of us would be poor, just a few notches down. She works part time.. and post-divorce would need to go back full time. I carry the healthcare, so there'd be that for her as well. Knowing how my mind works.. I'd probably agree to a less than 50/50 split of assets. 

I personally carry the baggage of my parents botched divorce from the early 70s. Mind I have a very good memory but have large gaps in childhood memories *everyone* blames on my parents -erm- stupidity.  Part of my own decision path to transition is the specter of divorce.


Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #82 on: September 15, 2021, 01:06:13 pm »
Jenn, I'm guessing that your wife is in a maelstrom of emotions right now and it's likely hard for her to find her footing, which is why I encourage you to remind her of the realities of divorcing; Fulltime work and finding healthcare are just two of many deprivations she'll have to endure. Great change is upon her whether she stays or goes. In short, if she bolts to flee change, she'll fail.

Offline jennifer7020

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #83 on: September 15, 2021, 02:21:43 pm »
Jenn, I'm guessing that your wife is in a maelstrom of emotions right now and it's likely hard for her to find her footing, which is why I encourage you to remind her of the realities of divorcing; Fulltime work and finding healthcare are just two of many deprivations she'll have to endure. Great change is upon her whether she stays or goes. In short, if she bolts to flee change, she'll fail.

thank you.

"maelstrom of emotions" is an understatement.  I'll leave it there.

For her work and healthcare would be the least of it. That is the source of her anger and tears. Its more about social standing and the kids for her than money, work, or healthcare. She "loves me as a man". Anything less to her is stigmatizing.

I am doing my best to stay level headed and focused. While she'd like a separation, I don't see it as helpful to the marriage. perhaps a different post on that though.

Online Pammie

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #84 on: September 15, 2021, 04:40:04 pm »
thank you.

"maelstrom of emotions" is an understatement.  I'll leave it there.

For her work and healthcare would be the least of it. That is the source of her anger and tears. Its more about social standing and the kids for her than money, work, or healthcare. She "loves me as a man". Anything less to her is stigmatizing.

I am doing my best to stay level headed and focused. While she'd like a separation, I don't see it as helpful to the marriage. perhaps a different post on that though.
I’d guess that she doesn’t really care if a separation is helpful for the marriage tbh.
I do think that you need to be understanding and gentle not threatening.


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Offline Rachel Montgomery

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #85 on: September 15, 2021, 11:29:08 pm »
thank you.

"maelstrom of emotions" is an understatement.  I'll leave it there.

For her work and healthcare would be the least of it. That is the source of her anger and tears. Its more about social standing and the kids for her than money, work, or healthcare. She "loves me as a man". Anything less to her is stigmatizing.

I am doing my best to stay level headed and focused. While she'd like a separation, I don't see it as helpful to the marriage. perhaps a different post on that though.

She needs to carefully consider her alternatives.  And, you need to consider what you are willing to keep secret from the world.  If you don't plan to transition, you might be ok with privately cross dressing.  She wouldn't have to see it.  You could for example rent a hotel room once a month in another city and spend it as Jennifer, but otherwise live as you have up until now.  If that works for you, she should carefully consider that.

If what she is trying to avoid is social embarrassment, (and assuming that in your community, your transitioning would be considered an embarrassment) what does she think will happen when after divorce you have no reason NOT to transition?  And, would she not mention it in the divorce?  In that case, everyone will find out anyway.  Sure, many will be sympathetic to her, but they will all feel pity for her.  If status drives her, her status will be diminished.  And, people who love status tend to hate being pitied.

It isn't PURELY a matter of controlling the situation.  There probably was some intimacy you shared in the 30 years.  You must actually like each other at least a little.  And, familiarity is comforting as you age. 

I am just saying, whatever influence she has to manage this situation goes away if she ends the marriage.  If you MUST transition anyway, this isn't going to work.   

Online Pammie

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #86 on: September 16, 2021, 05:17:09 am »
She needs to carefully consider her alternatives.  And, you need to consider what you are willing to keep secret from the world.  If you don't plan to transition, you might be ok with privately cross dressing.  She wouldn't have to see it.  You could for example rent a hotel room once a month in another city and spend it as Jennifer, but otherwise live as you have up until now.  If that works for you, she should carefully consider that.

If what she is trying to avoid is social embarrassment, (and assuming that in your community, your transitioning would be considered an embarrassment) what does she think will happen when after divorce you have no reason NOT to transition?  And, would she not mention it in the divorce?  In that case, everyone will find out anyway.  Sure, many will be sympathetic to her, but they will all feel pity for her.  If status drives her, her status will be diminished.  And, people who love status tend to hate being pitied.

It isn't PURELY a matter of controlling the situation.  There probably was some intimacy you shared in the 30 years.  You must actually like each other at least a little.  And, familiarity is comforting as you age. 

I am just saying, whatever influence she has to manage this situation goes away if she ends the marriage.  If you MUST transition anyway, this isn't going to work.   
I take your point but there is an element of distance delivered by divorce plus maybe it would be better for Jennifer to move somewhere new as part of her transition as there are many more negatives for her than her wife?


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Online Pammie

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Jenn's Journey
« Reply #87 on: September 16, 2021, 04:19:58 pm »
I think the difference of opinion on this thread are both symptoms of how hard the subject is but are also a great advert for Susan’s - lots of people providing honest opinions and experiences. Posters like O&C (and Sephirah) are givers who are only here to try to help others and that’s such a wonderful thing!
It doesn’t matter that I don’t always have the same perspective as her (O&C) - the point is that she has been there and done that and has lots of important and useful insight. There also appears that there is the possibility that I’m sometimes wrong (at least in theory!) - go figure!


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Offline jennifer7020

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #88 on: September 16, 2021, 05:09:04 pm »
I think the difference of opinion on this thread are both symptoms of how hard the subject is but are also a great advert for Susan’s - lots of people providing honest opinions and experiences. Posters like O&C (and Sephirah) are givers who are only here to try to help others and that’s such a wonderful thing!
It doesn’t matter that I don’t always have the same perspective as her (O&C) - the point is that she has been there and done that and has lots of important and useful insight. There also appears that there is the possibility that I’m sometimes wrong (at least in theory!) - go figure!


I couldnt agree more. I've taken something from every post.

thanks for taking the time to read and comment. It means more than text can convey

Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #89 on: September 16, 2021, 07:05:51 pm »
Pammie, this is so kind of you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I think the difference of opinion on this thread are both symptoms of how hard the subject is but are also a great advert for Susan’s - lots of people providing honest opinions and experiences. Posters like O&C (and Sephirah) are givers who are only here to try to help others and that’s such a wonderful thing!
It doesn’t matter that I don’t always have the same perspective as her (O&C) - the point is that she has been there and done that and has lots of important and useful insight. There also appears that there is the possibility that I’m sometimes wrong (at least in theory!) - go figure!


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Online Pammie

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #90 on: September 17, 2021, 05:20:04 am »
Pammie, this is so kind of you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I have recently felt I have lost empathy and have been dismissive which I don’t want to be. You guys (O&C and Sephirah especially) are the heart of Susan’s and are an absolute inspiration. Xx


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Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #91 on: September 17, 2021, 07:23:40 am »
Pammie, you ever-most-kindly overestimate my importance at Susan's. I'm just another rider on the bus, who does often offer a contrary perspective, which can be useful.

Online Pammie

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #92 on: September 17, 2021, 09:49:36 am »
Pammie, you ever-most-kindly overestimate my importance at Susan's. I'm just another rider on the bus, who does often offer a contrary perspective, which can be useful.
I sometimes look at situations from the perspective of roles: givers, takers, catalysts and spectators. The takers needs the warmth generated by the exothermic output from the givers. So warmed they become energised, perhaps changed but certainly enriched. Susan’s is the reactor but the reaction fails without all of the elements.


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Offline Oldandcreaky

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #93 on: September 17, 2021, 11:26:26 am »
Pammie, I too focus on roles and even studied and taught a roles theory in college.

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #94 on: September 17, 2021, 11:31:40 am »
Pammie, I too focus on roles and even studied and taught a roles theory in college.
That doesn’t surprise me at all!


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Offline jennifer7020

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2021, 11:51:18 am »
I am starting to see my own big picture.

I'd love to take a few baby steps towards transition. Try out a few feelings and experiences in a concrete way- a little electrolysis is someone no one would notice, or a waxing.. things like that. Failing anything of that sort, at least find a support group that makes sense for me. As I've said, my wife is in that fear-and-anger place where her limits are are me, doing nothing. Now and forever.. with a kind of asterisk that she may or may not let me find a group. I say it like that because she is in a denial phase too. Something between "you are not like them" and some fear a support group is a coded "push you into transition" group.

I've thought about how I'd like to proceed a lot since a call with me, my wife, and, therapist earlier in the week. A crisis-mode call. We all have a different path. To steal a phrase.. for some the decision to transition is walk on a spring day. That same decision for me is a howling north wind. I'd as much try a few steps, see how it feels. If it feels wrong.. well. stop. My therapist has a lot of experience and she has had clients try a few minor things, then stop. My wife's limits make this fairly impossible. I have an appointment late next week. I am continuing to think and meditate on what is best.

there are a lot of other contexts. my parents screwed up their divorce 50 years ago. I am aware I have a kinda divorce-phobia. It happens when parents spend more time teaching you to hate the other parent and running away than -um- parenting. So no decisions are easy. Nor should they be for me.

stay tuned

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Re: Jenn's Journey
« Reply #96 on: Yesterday at 01:05:21 pm »
Pammie, I too focus on roles and even studied and taught a roles theory in college.
Ps I suspect you can do this in real time. Im far too busy emoting to have that awareness! My thoughts are almost always retrospective


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