Author Topic: Do other non-binary people feel like this?  (Read 1426 times)

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Offline Dargoon

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Do other non-binary people feel like this?
« on: December 18, 2021, 08:46:22 am »
I have recently accepted myself as transgender and even came out to a few people, mostly online, about being a trans man. The issue is that despite me loving the fact that they now treat me as a man, I felt like I was ignoring part of myself. I tried to bury that down because I didn't want people to not see me as a guy. It got a little too hard to ignore and then I noticed a few things:

- When I was a child (bellow the age of 10), I used to think I was intersex despite having the expected body of my AGAB;
- The physical transition I want would make me get a more masculine body, but still androgynous;
- I keep feeling like I'd be ignoring part of me if I failed to recognize I'm also a woman;
- I do feel extremely bad about the idea of not being able to present as a man and live as one;
- I have a lot of gender envy towards men.

Is this something that happens with other non-binary people? Binary trans people can answer too if you'd like to.

Offline Tess100

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Re: Do other non-binary people feel like this?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2021, 03:44:14 pm »
Hello Dargoon,
Change the pronouns and you would be describing my life.
I present as something in-between genders.  HRT influenced body, female wardrobe, largely male mannerisms.   The general public looks at me as a male.  Aside from a few very close friends I am not out to anyone.  It is a complicated path to navigate.  We have to be who we are though, right?
I would love to hear more about your experiences.
Tess

Offline Courtney G

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Re: Do other non-binary people feel like this?
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2021, 04:25:05 pm »
We're finally starting to explore the gender spectrum properly. If it happened decades ago, so many more people like us could have found our way out of the confusion.

I:

Relate to women better and envy both their gender and the basic physical attributes

Want a physical transition that would give me a female body, but do not wish to have to satisfy the expected gender norms that come with - I'd love to be able to feel "pretty", but not have that expectation put on me

Feel very uncomfortable living a life that requires me to present as a woman all the time

Absolutely hate being dismissed as a "man" by women

Offline Rakel

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Re: Do other non-binary people feel like this?
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2021, 07:12:20 pm »
...I have a lot of gender envy towards men.

Is this something that happens with other non-binary people? Binary trans people can answer too if you'd like to.

Welcome back Dargoon. I see that this is the first post from you in over 7 years. I hope everything has been going well for you.

Speaking for myself, for many years I was totally envious of all women, no matter how they looked or how they presented themselves. No matter if they were short or tall, skinny or not so skinny, I always remember thinking to myself, "Those ladies just do not know how lucky they are.

Today, I realize that this was my inner self image talking to me. It all depends if your physical body matching your mental self or not. If you have a match, you are so fortunate. If you have a dysphoria of any kind, we either suffered through it or took charge of our own life. Today you can do something about it. Years ago, this did not happen very often.

Take care.  :-*




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Offline Dargoon

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Re: Do other non-binary people feel like this?
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2021, 10:28:00 am »
Hello Dargoon,
Change the pronouns and you would be describing my life.
I present as something in-between genders.  HRT influenced body, female wardrobe, largely male mannerisms.   The general public looks at me as a male.  Aside from a few very close friends I am not out to anyone.  It is a complicated path to navigate.  We have to be who we are though, right?
I would love to hear more about your experiences.
Tess

We have to do our best on that, indeed.

I honestly don't think I have much experience related to that. Most of it I have done online and I have noticed myself having a more masculine gender expression online (including preferring the use of masculine pronouns and a stereotypically masculine name) and being treated as a woman, even if respectfully, makes me feel uncomfortable in most contexts. Still, I know that sometimes being treated as a guy isn't that good, especially when they expect me to perform toxic masculinity.

I attempted to achieve a more masculine look my cutting my hair short and it did help a bit, but now I can't stop noticing that my face is too feminine.

We're finally starting to explore the gender spectrum properly. If it happened decades ago, so many more people like us could have found our way out of the confusion.

I:

Relate to women better and envy both their gender and the basic physical attributes

Want a physical transition that would give me a female body, but do not wish to have to satisfy the expected gender norms that come with - I'd love to be able to feel "pretty", but not have that expectation put on me

Feel very uncomfortable living a life that requires me to present as a woman all the time

Absolutely hate being dismissed as a "man" by women


Describes my case really well, but as a man. This is one of those things that makes me wonder if what bothers me the most about being one of the binary genders is the limitations over gender expression, so maybe I assume that being non-binary would allow me to not have to follow strict rules.

Welcome back Dargoon. I see that this is the first post from you in over 7 years. I hope everything has been going well for you.

Speaking for myself, for many years I was totally envious of all women, no matter how they looked or how they presented themselves. No matter if they were short or tall, skinny or not so skinny, I always remember thinking to myself, "Those ladies just do not know how lucky they are.

Today, I realize that this was my inner self image talking to me. It all depends if your physical body matching your mental self or not. If you have a match, you are so fortunate. If you have a dysphoria of any kind, we either suffered through it or took charge of our own life. Today you can do something about it. Years ago, this did not happen very often.

Take care.  :-*

Things have improved, but they aren't that good right now. I don't remember much about my mindset 7 years ago. I know that I managed to live as if I was a cis woman and I got back to questioning after noticing that I have been feeling very depressed over the fact that I'm not a man. I'm still trying to figure out what I can do to better deal with it. If I need to change the way I present myself to the world or do any changes to my body, I will try to find ways to do that. I just hope that will help me.

I had similar thoughts towards men, but it was way too easy to dismiss that as internalized misogyny. I have been allowing myself to feel things recently and to experiment with different gender expressions and presentations when I'm safe to do so.

Offline Courtney G

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Re: Do other non-binary people feel like this?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2021, 11:09:21 am »
Describes my case really well, but as a man. This is one of those things that makes me wonder if what bothers me the most about being one of the binary genders is the limitations over gender expression, so maybe I assume that being non-binary would allow me to not have to follow strict rules.

Yes. I would love to live in a world where I would be free to express both sides of my gender identity. I don't want to come out at female because it's not absolute for me...I'm still male. But I strongly identify with the female in me. And for that matter, it's unfortunate that the "nonbinary" label puts people in some wasteland that the rest of world doesn't understand, but has to make room for, like a relative that doesn't fit in at the holiday dinner table, and makes everyone else uncomfortable.

Offline Asche

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Re: Do other non-binary people feel like this?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2021, 07:14:33 pm »
... This is one of those things that makes me wonder if what bothers me the most about being one of the binary genders is the limitations over gender expression, so maybe I assume that being non-binary would allow me to not have to follow strict rules.

Presenting as (binary) male or (binary) female may result in people expecting you to follow particular rules -- but you don't have to follow them.  You do have to deal with their expectations, and I think most of us (both cis and trans) have to find some compromise between those expectations and how we'd really like to live.  (But doesn't that describe almost everyone?)

I say "presenting," rather than "being," because presentation is what people use to figure out what expectations they'll try to saddle you with, and your presentation doesn't have to determine how you identify or how you see yourself.

I describe my true self as non-binary because I reject the whole structure that society has created around "gender" (or "sex".)  Growing up, I experienced gendered expectations placed on me as just another way that the rest of humanity was trying to eradicate my soul, so I went to no more effort to meet those expectations than I had to to survive, and I certainly didn't let them define who I was.  You could perhaps call me a "gender nihilist."

However, I present female, because I can't stand the dreck that society has constructed around "masculinity" (I actually find masculinity kind of triggering), and the expectations that get placed on me when I present as female are easier for me to bear -- or ignore, as the case may be.  (I'm a life-long feminist, and I think my feminism justifies ignoring those expectations.)

I've never tried to "present non-binary," because there are no widely accepted "rules" yet for how people should interact with people who look non-binary, the way there are for people who present male or present female, so you kind of have to make up the rules and then try to force everyone you deal with to follow them.  I have a few non-binary friends, and they have to constantly struggle to get people to use the correct pronouns and non-gendered nouns.  Me?  I'm old and tired and don't have any fight left.  So I let people see me as a woman who doesn't follow all the rules (I'm such a bad girl :) )-- which also describes most of the cis women I have anything to do with, so I feel like I fit in.
"...  I think I'm great just the way I am, and so are you." -- Jazz Jennings



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Offline CrowTheNB

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Re: Do other non-binary people feel like this?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2022, 07:46:34 am »
I feel similarly to you. I dont think your alone in your experience.

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