Author Topic: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?  (Read 562 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CosmicJoke

  • Friend
  • ****
  • Posts: 349
  • Reputation: +2/-0
  • Gender: Female
Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« on: September 18, 2023, 05:32:16 pm »
Hi everyone. I've been full-time for 13 years now. I've been transgender all my life but I still struggle to understand why this is generally treated like the worst thing you could be. Initially most family/friends treated it that way at first but then they've surprisingly come to acceptance.
It's not like I'm a pedophile or a registered sex offender. If that's what they are seeing, I don't know but some people certainly treat it that way.
I don't know if you've had a similar experience. Do you ever wonder why this is treated like the worst thing you could be when there are much worse things?

Offline Jessica_Rose

  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3,933
  • Reputation: +181/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2023, 05:54:39 pm »
It's probably because of the stigma which became attached to the terms 'transsexual', 'transvestite', and several other terms related to transgender people which are now considered slurs. Most of the information people have came from lurid stories or 'adult' movies where transgender people were objectified because of their unique attributes. Toxic masculinity, some religions, and even the entertainment industry all contribute to the negative connotations people have about us. People are often frightened by things they don't understand. Sometimes they must fabricate information to justify their fear. As of just a few years ago, around 70% of the population had never knowingly met someone who was transgender.

One of the best ways to fight this is to simply be a good person, a good neighbor, a good friend. Live your life in a way that shows others there is really no difference between us and them, there is no reason to be frightened. Eventually the 'bad' press will fade as more people actually meet and interact with the wonderfully amazing and beautiful group of humans whose lives transcended the narrow classifications they were given at birth.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

Offline KathyLauren

  • *
  • Posts: 6,583
  • Reputation: +80/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Casting off dull certainty
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2023, 06:25:08 pm »
I think there are several reasons, that all reinforce each other. 

Most people think of trans women when they think of transgender people.  Common misogyny tells people that going from male (superior) to female (inferior) is a violation of progress and upward mobility.  So trans women are seen as traitors to maleness.  Trans-masculine people are not on the common person's radar for the complementary reason: going from female (inferior) to male (superior) is an example of upward mobility, validating the American stereotype.

People see being transgender as a choice.  All the public dialogue about it is based on the assumption that it is a choice.  Therefore, they see the misogynistic wrongness as something that we do intentionally.  That, in their view, makes it immoral.

Most people know less than nothing about transgender people.  (Less than nothing, because in order to know nothing, a blank slate, they would have to be educated to unlearn all the wrong ideas they hold.)

I am sure that one could come up with half a dozen more reasons, but that is a start.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly, beginning full-time; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2020-03-11 GRS!; 2020-09-30 New birth certificate; 2021-03-10 consultation for ongoing pain




Offline tgirlamg

  • 11:11
  • *
  • Posts: 2,243
  • Reputation: +45/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • “Gently, but with undeniable will...”
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2023, 06:34:24 pm »

One of the best ways to fight this is to simply be a good person, a good neighbor, a good friend. Live your life in a way that shows others there is really no difference between us and them, there is no reason to be frightened. Eventually the 'bad' press will fade as more people actually meet and interact with the wonderfully amazing and beautiful group of humans whose lives transcended the narrow classifications they were given at birth.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

@Jessica Rose

Well put sister… In our every interaction, we have the opportunity to improve the world for many… most of whom we will never know but they will still benefit from our aiming to do our best for all who cross our path!

Onward We Go…

Ashley 🙋‍♀️💕🌻
« Last Edit: September 18, 2023, 09:30:05 pm by tgirlamg »
“To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment” ... Ralph Waldo Emerson 🌸

“The individual has always had to struggle from being overwhelmed by the tribe... But, no price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself” ... Rudyard Kipling 🌸

Let go of the things that no longer serve you... Let go of the pretense of the false persona, it is not you... Let go of the armor that you have worn for a lifetime, to serve the expectations of others and, to protect the woman inside... She needs protection no longer.... She is tired of hiding and more courageous than you know... Let her prove that to you....Let her step out of the dark and feel the light upon her face.... amg🌸 Before / After
🌻 https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,251753.60.html 🌻

Offline Maid Marion

  • *
  • Posts: 2,915
  • Reputation: +14/-0
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2023, 06:52:07 pm »
Appearances matter.  People are shallow and judge you by how you look.
It is hard for many of us to look good in women's clothes. Small men have the same problem. 
They have a difficult time finding clothes that fit properly, resulting in a bad first impression.

I spent a lot of time learning how to dress properly.  Learning all about the colors that go well with my warm skin tone.
I bought a couple sewing machines and learned to hem everything, including T-shirts.
This weekend the lady who took my fish and chip order complemented me on the color of my top!
The bright purple was a good contrast to my tanned arms.  I wore black printed pattern pants that made the color pop.
It took all summer,  but now my shoulders are tanned so I can wear sleeveless tops!

There is fashion advice for Inverted Triangles, which many of us should read, instead of trying to copy something for someone shaped much differently.  Learning to be different is much harder than copying someone else.

It may be worthwhile to seek out an affordable tailor, perhaps a lady associated with laundromat, who does inexpensive repairs and alterations.  Ladies work is still undervalued in many places.  I'm sure if you pay her well she won't care who wears that dress!

Marion
« Last Edit: September 18, 2023, 07:58:01 pm by Maid Marion »

Offline ElleBelle

  • Neighbor
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2023, 07:43:35 pm »
Hiya,

Really good question, and the answers have been spot on.

Trans have been portrayed in the media for decades as deviants, there is even a movie dedicated about the historical representation of trans people in movies.

But more so - the sheep.  They blindly follow people who are actively against minorities, and at the moment, Trans are the minorities being targeted no different to how Gay/Lesbians were treated in the 80s, destroying the moral fabric of society and will lead us all to having sex with animals etc, when in reality, they were like everyone else, wanting to love who they love.

But if the minorities turn against each other - they are not focussing on the oppressors.

So much outrage, and "shoving down our throats" is actually from these militant people, who will follow these muppets regardless of the news, and facts, and more importantly science.  They will believe what the head muppet says, and will do the actions that are told to them - Jan 6 was a perfect example of that.

All we can do is to live our lives, be the change in our circles, I've had many people tell me that I'm the first trans person that they believe they've met.  And even told, I was not what they expected, that they have changed their views because if someone like me was transgender - then maybe they've been taught wrong.

The media is putting the fear into people, when in reality - most people actually don't care.

Diagnosis: 12-10-17
HRT: 23-11-17
Revealed Me: 12-1-18
GRS/BA - 6-3-24!!!!!!!!

Offline Allie Jayne

  • *
  • Posts: 2,096
  • Reputation: +35/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2023, 03:25:45 am »
The most common misconception is that trans is a lifestyle chosen by people for sexual thrills. This has roots in the early studies of trans people (which were more opinions as they did not use any scientific methods) and is pushed by churches and conservatives. This is why the mania over rest rooms and general claims of pedophilia are associated with being trans, and also why the fear of drag queens influencing children. These misconceptions are ridiculous, but commonly held, and are behind oppressive laws, relationship breakups, community outrage.

The frustrating thing is the lack of effort put into educating people about these misconceptions, not just by academia, but by the people most affected - us! Time and again I see ridiculous claims go unchallenged, and until this changes, we will retain the misinformation.

Hugs,

Allie
1958 Knew I should be a girl
1961 Told my mother I was a girl
1976 told my fiance I was trans
1999 told my 2nd wife to be I was trans
2000 began being me at home
2018 Dysphoria made me seriously sick
2019 started HRT, not sick any more!
        Started electrolysis
2020 Full time, legally Me!
2021 Labiaplasty
        Divorced again and on my own
2022 BA

Offline Gina P

  • *
  • Posts: 572
  • Reputation: +5/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Former Gigi Cooper
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2023, 05:26:44 am »

All we can do is to live our lives, be the change in our circles, I've had many people tell me that I'm the first trans person that they believe they've met.  And even told, I was not what they expected, that they have changed their views because if someone like me was transgender - then maybe they've been taught wrong.

The media is putting the fear into people, when in reality - most people actually don't care.

Well spoken. I believe the media is our worst enemy. My travels have brought me nothing but love and kindness towards my transition. Oh occasionally I will get the, I heard that so and so hates you now. But I have met almost no one that knows I'm trans, that says anything other than congratulations.

Offline Mary_M

  • Neighbor
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
  • Reputation: +2/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2023, 05:43:27 am »
Why were the Jews in Nazi Germany treated as "the worst thing you could be"?

There is a common element here: people who have power want to hold on to that power by any means. One way to do this is to invent an enemy (whether it is the Jews or LGBTQ+ people), which is an "other", an "outsider", with some visible differences from "normal" people. Relentlessly slander the invented enemy and claim that this enemy is really a terrible danger, and that they are the only ones who can save you from that enemy.

The Anti-Defamation League traces the link between antisemitism and anti-LGBTQ+ hate (quoting from their blog):

"In the 19th and 20th centuries, Jewish men were often characterized as effeminate, while Jewish women were seen as unladylike and sexually aggressive. The Nazis viewed both Jews and LGBTQ+ people as a threat to the regime’s racial, reproductive and military goals.

"Today, antisemites continue to stereotype Jewish people as purveyors of so-called sexual perversion, with anti-LGBTQ+ tropes about pedophilia and abuse converging with the age-old antisemitic canard that Jews prey upon non-Jews, especially non-Jewish children. The current confluence of antisemitism and anti-LGBTQ+ hate is perpetuated by extremists and conspiracy theorists from a wide range of ideological backgrounds.

"A broad spectrum of extremists regularly accuses Jews of controlling the entertainment industry and promoting a so-called LGBTQ+ “agenda,” and falsely claim that Jewish religious texts condone the rape of young children and other sexually immoral behaviors."

Offline Mary_M

  • Neighbor
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
  • Reputation: +2/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2023, 06:42:57 am »
I should add, just to clarify, I am not suggesting that all transphobes are antisemitic, but that there is a common theme in both transphobia and antisemitism.

Offline LucyEgo

  • Neighbor
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
  • Reputation: +1/-0
  • Gender: Questioning
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2023, 07:12:51 am »
From the outside in, and from an unhealthy dosage of my own baggage, there are some people, like I used to be, who think that being transgender is a choice, like getting a tattoo, and why on earth would you want to change your body instead of accepting your body for what it is?

Of course then there are others who will say you're just transgender so you can encroach in women's areas - and we all know how protected those are. My other half is an ardent feminist who thinks that every other man is a sex offender, which, to me, is just hurtful if you're a man, makes me want to be a man even more. I don't know who all these people are, I don't associate with them.

But because women want their protected zones, free from sleaze, free from people coming onto them, free from the threat of rape and violence etc, the mantra trickles over I think and becomes anti-trans, because they see us as men and still capable of heinous acts.

Think of the adage, "if it saves just one life'.

I've always said, there good and bad in every community, and what we need to do, is the good people need to bring themselves together, to communicate, to discuss etc, open dialog and support one another. I went to a pride parade, and I was surprised at the interaction between faith fundamentalists and the pride celebrants, neither of which wanted to talk to each other, they just wanted to reject one another. But I think reach out, be the bigger person, don't judge.

How exactly we achieve that unity I don't know, though I think the previous poster said it best - just concentrate on being a good person, being a good friend, a good neighbour etc.

Offline Rakel

  • rah KEL
  • Family
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5,646
  • Reputation: +115/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Rakel@susans.org
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2023, 07:56:29 am »
I think there are several reasons, that all reinforce each other. ...

...People see being transgender as a choice.  All the public dialogue about it is based on the assumption that it is a choice.  Therefore, they see the misogynistic wrongness as something that we do intentionally....

All of us know that gender dysphoria is not a choice, it just happens to some people in various degrees. What is a choice is that some of us chose to do something about it.

I did and I am happy I did.  ;)

Before my decision to transition, I became fully aware of all the negative consequences, including that some people do not like people like me. I did what I needed to do and accepted all the negative consequences, no matter what.  :P



Offline Oldandcreaky

  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,699
  • Reputation: +33/-0
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2023, 04:06:20 pm »
Why were the Jews in Nazi Germany treated as "the worst thing you could be"?

There is a common element here: people who have power want to hold on to that power by any means. One way to do this is to invent an enemy (whether it is the Jews or LGBTQ+ people), which is an "other", an "outsider", with some visible differences from "normal" people. Relentlessly slander the invented enemy and claim that this enemy is really a terrible danger, and that they are the only ones who can save you from that enemy.

The Anti-Defamation League traces the link between antisemitism and anti-LGBTQ+ hate (quoting from their blog):

"In the 19th and 20th centuries, Jewish men were often characterized as effeminate, while Jewish women were seen as unladylike and sexually aggressive. The Nazis viewed both Jews and LGBTQ+ people as a threat to the regime’s racial, reproductive and military goals.

"Today, antisemites continue to stereotype Jewish people as purveyors of so-called sexual perversion, with anti-LGBTQ+ tropes about pedophilia and abuse converging with the age-old antisemitic canard that Jews prey upon non-Jews, especially non-Jewish children. The current confluence of antisemitism and anti-LGBTQ+ hate is perpetuated by extremists and conspiracy theorists from a wide range of ideological backgrounds.

"A broad spectrum of extremists regularly accuses Jews of controlling the entertainment industry and promoting a so-called LGBTQ+ “agenda,” and falsely claim that Jewish religious texts condone the rape of young children and other sexually immoral behaviors."

Mary_M nailed it. I would only add that many humans crave predictability. That's why the average New Jersey wedding costs $51,000. The deal is this: "We'll throw you an amazing party if you promise until death do you part." Then there are the thousands/tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands in gifts.

Gender tells us how to approach a person, which is why gender reveals are such big deals. Transitioning requires everyone who knows a person to approach that person differently, which engenders resentment, for that's a lot of work and fails the predictability test. 

Offline ChrissyRyan

  • Have a gentle manner ❤️
  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,433
  • Reputation: +57/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • No act of kindness, however small, is wasted.
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2023, 04:45:56 pm »
Maybe some people believe that transgender people are gay, and those same people think that being gay is unacceptable.  That is possible.

Maybe some guys had a date with a MTF woman before knowing she was MTF and did not like the discovery, because of a strong expectation that the passing MTF was CIS, and the idea that she is MTF bothers those guys (and that is somewhat understandable, which brings up the question when you should disclose your MTF status).
So that is also possible.

Maybe some think that transgender people are mentally ill as even the professionally trained psychological community believed that to be the case for many years.

In any event these unaccepting people do not want to interact with us, be accepting, and think it is okay to not be kind to them.

Some people do not like people for one of many reasons.  You could be too short or too tall, too dark or too light,
Skinny or fat, smart or not so smart, and so on. 

All well.  Just be your best possible person and be watchful where you are with who and when under what circumstances.  Be safe, be wise, and be a person who actions are commendable.


Chrissy
Be a good example of good behavior.  Always be kinder than needed.  Be tender to others.  You are as beautiful as the thoughts you think and the words that you speak.   Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding.  Knowledge and action shown without love is not impressive.  If you look for the good in people you will find it. Healthy relationships are so important to good living.  Serve others.

Good living, joy, unity, love, and happiness can come from following these practices: Never let selfishness or conceit motivate you.  Regard others as more important than yourself.  Do not limit attention to only your interests, but include the interests of others

It is not usually about how fast you transition, it is about how well you transition.  
.

I am a brown eyed brunette.

Offline Rayna

  • Call me Rayna. Formerly Randi
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2,294
  • Reputation: +18/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Living my best life as Rayna!
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2023, 05:15:02 pm »
Thank you everybody for a great discussion, and to @CosmicJoke for kicking it off.

I think there's a big difference between politicians/"leaders" lol and average people, with whom I've personally had nearly no trouble. Including women in restrooms.

But some politicians and similar transphobes find it very useful to target us as a way to divert attention from the bad things they are actually doing.

As several of you said above, all I can do is be the best ambassador I can be from the trans community to the rest of the world.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk


Offline ChrissyRyan

  • Have a gentle manner ❤️
  • Family
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,433
  • Reputation: +57/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • No act of kindness, however small, is wasted.
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2023, 05:50:17 pm »
Thank you everybody for a great discussion, and to @CosmicJoke for kicking it off.

I think there's a big difference between politicians/"leaders" lol and average people, with whom I've personally had nearly no trouble. Including women in restrooms.

But some politicians and similar transphobes find it very useful to target us as a way to divert attention from the bad things they are actually doing.

As several of you said above, all I can do is be the best ambassador I can be from the trans community to the rest of the world.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk


Spot on Rayna.

Chrissy
Be a good example of good behavior.  Always be kinder than needed.  Be tender to others.  You are as beautiful as the thoughts you think and the words that you speak.   Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding.  Knowledge and action shown without love is not impressive.  If you look for the good in people you will find it. Healthy relationships are so important to good living.  Serve others.

Good living, joy, unity, love, and happiness can come from following these practices: Never let selfishness or conceit motivate you.  Regard others as more important than yourself.  Do not limit attention to only your interests, but include the interests of others

It is not usually about how fast you transition, it is about how well you transition.  
.

I am a brown eyed brunette.

Offline Sephirah

  • *
  • Posts: 6,142
  • Reputation: +354/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2023, 01:55:07 pm »
I'm going to offer a slightly different view on this.

I don't think that, for some, I suspect a lot of people, it has anything to do with you at all. Or transgender people as a whole. I feel like it has more to do with what you represent to them and their view of the world. How you're treated is a projection of people's own... hmm... sometimes misunderstanding, sometimes insecurity, sometimes even fear about how you live your life and what it means to them in terms of how they live their life.

To try and explain what I mean... a few guys I've come out to have alluded to the fact that someone who would want to even consider not being a dude means being a dude is somehow bad, or wrong. Completely ignoring 99% of the conversation and fixating on that assertion because it made them feel threatened or emasculated. I could have told them I wanted to become myself because the giant, pink, cosmic unicorn told me to after eating too much cheese and seeing my future in a dream. They wouldn't have listened. Because it didn't matter. Only the what... not the why.

And I think this is the same for a lot of people. The why gets lost like a whisper in a hurricane of how you being yourself affects the person in question. How they see the world. How... maybe they don't trust their own instincts anymore because they didn't see it coming, you know?

But it's always easier to blame outside than look inside. And rather than face those things about themselves that you being you raises for them, they blame and make it your fault for exposing such things in the first place. "If you weren't you, this wouldn't be an issue, and everything would be hunky-dory!".

Sadly this makes it stubbornly difficult to try and allow some folks to see the why. Because they're too busy being focused on what it means for them to even look at what it means to you.

Never stop trying, though. :)

Offline Maid Marion

  • *
  • Posts: 2,915
  • Reputation: +14/-0
Re: Why this is treated like the worst thing you could be?
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2023, 02:18:59 pm »
I had enough savings to finally retire a few weeks ago!
On my last day I visited the offices and said goodbye to wearing a red polo with white polka dots, a pink skirt, and a pink white golf jacket, and black ankle length booties.  Just in case there were any doubts about my gender!

Wrote this a few months ago.
I typically had a 5 minute chat with at least one person in each office.  That way they would remember me!  ;D

Tags: