Activism and Politics > Politics

Is there a seperation?

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Terra:
In the constitution it calls for a seperation of church and state. My preposal, and really think on this, there is no seperation at this time. How can you have seperation of church and state when you founded the country on the christian faith.

For instence, how is abortion really the goverments buisness? A woman's body is her own and having big brother standing over her and making decisions is plain wrong. The reason being that the only claim it IS wrong is based on the cristian morals. But to an athiest, what difference does it make. The question if it is alive? There is no scientific proof that the neonate is having thoughts, adn as it goes "I think therefore I am".

The fact that drugs are illigal. Again, by whose morality are we defining drugs as wrong? What about gay marriage? All of these these and more are being based on a code of ethics, but by what ethics are these being based on?

Remember, as i've said before, the poloticians need to be bored sitting in the senate halls. Every bill or law or ANYTHING passed means one more freedom you just gave up.

Now i'm not saying that a goverment without a concious is a good thing. But poloticians can't get away or shouldn't be allowed to bible thump. A seperation of church and state means that the goverment is there to PROTECT our rights, not whittle away at them.

I expect to see a wide variety of answers here, I stirred the pot now lets see what happens. ;)

Chaunte:
I believe that the Founding Fathers wanted to prevent a state-religion from starting, such as the Church of England where the head of the church is the reigning King or Queen.  As I recall, for anyone to move through the political and social ranks, the person had to belong to the Church of England.  The admendment says nothing about not voting as your moral/religious code dictates.  This is true if your are a citizen or a member of Congress.  So, yes, there is seperation of Church and State.

Yes, the principles the United States was founded on have their roots in the Christian faith.  It's a system that works whether you use it in a religious or secular setting. 

THe governement has a responsibility to look out for the general welfare.  To quote the preamble, "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

This means that any activity that is detrimental to the General Welfare will be regulated and stopped.  Drug abuse falls under this guise.  How many roberies have their roots in obtaining money for narcotics?  How many deaths of innocent bystanders are caused by drug abuse?  This and other such activites are a threat to the general welfare.

Abortion.  There is no easy answer to this.  A friend suggested years ago that if the embryo was viable outside the womb, an abortin would not be allowed.  Unfortunately, that was before cloining became reality.  Now, soon after fertilization is the blastula (think hollow ball of cells) viable outside the womb?  We have a responsibility to prevent unwanted pregnancies.  When birth control is actively taught and made available, the number and desire for abortions will go down.

Should politicians be allowed to "Bible thump"  First amendment says they can.  If you don't like those in office, vote them out.

Chaunte

Alexandra:
If you're looking for "bored" politicans, you need to find a place where one ideology dominates society. North Korea is a good example.

Because of the wide variety of free-thinking individuals living in the United States, you have freely elected politicans all scrambling to steer the ship -- this is a good thing -- no one ideology can get their way all the time (without lying or being deceptive). As a result the ship turns slowly . . .  Not too long ago when LBJ was president, there were numerous bills passed granting all Americans more civil rights and freedoms. Its just that now the tide has turned a bit.

And yes, there IS a separation of Church and State is this country. The Consitution says so. Even the right-leaning U.S. Supreme Court rules in favor of following the Consitution when it comes to nearly all Church/State appeals on their docket. Its just the radical right's (and their usually ignorant followers) perpeptual efforts to break down that "barrier" that makes it SEEM like there is no separation.

Case in point: the Alabama judge who got a spanking by the supreme Court for not removing the 10 commandments display in the courthouse. It was moved by court order.

Leigh:

--- Quote from: Chaunte on March 23, 2006, 10:00:23 pm ---

THe governement has a responsibility to look out for the general welfare.  To quote the preamble, "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

 

--- End quote ---

My tranquility is being harmed every day by the denial of the right to marry.

General welfare?  According to which politician?  Certainly not those who are in the pockets of CEO's and kotowing to the religious reich.

This document is worthless until we all get to live by it.

Sandi:

--- Quote from: Luana ---In the constitution it calls for a seperation of church and state.
--- End quote ---

Actually is doesn't. It prevents the state from establishing a church.

There is a separation as explained in a letter by Thomas Jefferson. The Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 wrote him as in their state, their religious liberties were not seen as immutable rights, but favors granted by the legislature.

Copy of Danbury Baptist letter.

Excerpt from Jefferson's response:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" thus building a wall of eternal separation between Church & State. Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion...
In 1947 Justice Black took Jefferson's words out of context to take the simple wall to keep the government out of the church, and the church as a body out of government. Black's interpretation of Jefferson's letter is what was used then, and expanded on today in attempt to keep religion out of public view.

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