Author Topic: Losing Muscle  (Read 18947 times)

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Jessica

Losing Muscle
« on: July 05, 2005, 11:28:25 am »
The Following is an Excerpt from http://www.healthrecipes.com/muscle.htm
You can read the full article at that website
Note: This site deals with how to BUILD muscle, we want to do the oppostite

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So, according to Parillo, aerobics can actually enhance recovery from weight training and increase muscular growth by developing the circulatory pathways that provide nourishment to the muscles. Cardiovascular training is important for fat burning, for good health and for muscle-building.

Losing muscle has more to do with inadequate diet than with excessive aerobics. If you suspect you are losing muscle there are four likely causes:

1. You are not eating enough protein. Protein is the only nutrient that is actually used to build muscle. To stay anabolic you must eat five to six protein containing meals. Each meal should be spaced out approximately three hours apart. Research has proven that if you are physically active, you need a minimum of .8 grams to 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight.

2. Your carbohydrates are too low. Low carb diets are often used for fat loss, but it is a mistake to cut your carbs too drastically. Carbohydrates are protein-sparing, so even if you are eating large amounts of protein, you can still lose muscle if you your carbs are too low.

3. You are not eating enough calories to support muscle growth. This is the most common cause of muscle loss. When your calories are too low, your body goes into "starvation mode." Your metabolism slows down and your body actually burns muscle tissue to conserve energy. Muscle is metabolically active tissue, requiring a great deal of caloric energy just to maintain it. That's why your body will shed muscle if it thinks you are starving.

4. You are not training with weights. It is a common misconception that if you want to lose weight, you should start with cardio only and add the weights later - another big mistake! It is the weight training that keeps you from losing muscle while you are dieting.

So the following seems to be a reasonable conclusion for the LOSS of muscle mass while simultaneously losing fat.
Vegan diet with little to no fat, carbohydrates, and zero protien. (No Animal Products)
Minimilistic Caloric Intake.
No Sugars.
No weight training.
Increased Cardiovascular activity to lose fat.

This seems to me to be the fastest way to lose both muscle mass and fat.

Further Evidence and safety information that verifies these conclusions are found at the following website:

http://www.trans-health.com/displayarticle.php?aid=22

This site wants to INCREASE Body Fat and DECREASE Muscle Mass
With the Following Excerpt taken from that site:

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Protein intake got cut way down. Protein intake while dieting is important in retaining lean body mass (LBM), aka muscle. When it diminishes, there is an increased likelihood of muscle catabolism (breaking-down).

Carb intake went up and fat intake went down. At this point we had the classic late 80s/early 90s diet. Which, as people learned through experience, ate through LBM like wildfire, especially when combined with...

Endurance cardio. Lots. Low-intensity endurance cardio is all about catabolism. Ever notice that marathon runners look like dried out string beans, while sprinters look like lean, healthy race horses? Not accidental. Part of it is a result of self-selection of body types, but a lot of it has to do with training. And low-intensity endurance cardio is the express bus to Catabolism City. Boring as hell, unfortunately, but Raverdyke gamely hopped on the stationary bike with a good book for 30-60 minutes, 4 times a week.

We experimented with weight training, but eventually just discontinued it. She felt that it was making her retain too much muscle. I was torn on the issue because I knew that weight training helped a lot with weight loss, but I also knew that she had enough circulating androgens that hypertrophy remained a possibility, even with a workout protocol that was designed to avoid mass gain. I suggested training legs alone, because she wanted to retain much of the muscle on her legs, but that also fell by the wayside as pure size loss became the primary objective.

Note that the Carbohydrates went up because the person on this diet was a MtF TG who was a bodybuilder and had 2% bodyfat so she wanted to INCREASE her bodyfat and DECREASE her muscle mass.

I want to DECREASE Both therefore because

1. I am too fat .... period
2. I want to lose muscle mass

Which means both my protiens AND carbs must be virtually eliminated.

PLEASE NOTE: This is a dangerous diet to pursue for extended periods of time.  The site above recommends 5 days on the diet with EXTREMELY low (as low as 800) calories per day followed by a 2 day maintentence eating period where you bump your caloric intake to 2,000. Then continue repeating this cycle until you have reached your goals.  That way your body does not convince itself that it's starving and start hording calories.

Comments? Concerns? Different points of View?

So far my conclusions are as follows:
I am EXHAUSTED ALL the time.  But that might be due to depression and a lot of charged emotions.  I get light headed when I stand up to fast.  I have only been on it for one cycle (7 days) 5 on the diet, 2 days mainentence eating.  My body is adjusting, it was just yesterday that I actually had the energy to go for a good areobic walk.

Jessica

Cassandra

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2005, 01:44:40 pm »
Jessica,

You should keep in mind when and if your doctor puts you on HRT the feminaztion process will cause the loss of muscle mass. Your soft tissues will be literally restructuring themselves to conform to what the hormones are telling them they are, female. You will also gain body fat, some in areas you have never been prone to get fat before. You may want to be cautious of how much muscle mass you get rid of. You may need some of that to help compensate later. No sense making more work for yourself down the road.

As to the specifics of your diet plan it sounds reasonable, but then I'm no expert. A dietician would be better qualified to give you a yeh or nay on your plan.


Cassie

beth

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2005, 07:42:25 pm »
i agree with Cassie,

in just four months or so on HRT i've lost so much muscle, and it turns to fat fast so you have to watch your diet, and loosing weight is 10 times as hard.







beth

Terri-Gene

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2005, 11:56:19 am »
Would that my own mass loss were as quick.  It troubles me, having strength and ability that should never have been mine.  I must share in a condition to truely understand and learn from it.  after more then a year and a half on estrogen and spiro, I had lost so little, and retained strength and ability which set me apart from the less privialaged in the experience of being able to face adversity from a standpoint of physical superiority.  It wasn't until after Orchieotomy in May of this year that any real loss has begun to be significantly apparent.

Now that I can confirm the transformation, it makes me feel better about myself and how I adjust to cope with lifes problems and others, but at times frightens me in regards to my ability if I must call on former experience in behalf of myself or those I love, as I no longer know my physical limitations, nor the mental ones affected by the physical awareness.

There is rarely any real happiness or effectiveness in having it both ways though and having the former, while comforting in it's security, is at once a curse because it seperates me from those who must rely on less direct ways of handling most everything.

I do not seem to have any need of special excercises or foods to acommplish my goal of losing that which I would rather not have, a simple matter of controling what I take in, whatever it may be.  It is by no means a quick process, but the more it takes root, the closer I feel to re-understanding my core, which is confusing to my experience, as I increasingly must handle circumstances and problems from the core rather then from the training and experience which no longer have any application or place in my life.

Terri

Offline VeryGnawty

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Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2005, 08:45:32 am »
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Vegan diet with little to no fat, carbohydrates, and zero protien. (No Animal Products)

Low protein will definitely cause the muscle loss, but I wouldn't recommend no fat and carbohydrates simultaneously.  I'd keep an eye on the carbs, and watch the type of fats you are eating.  Also, you could cheat and eat stuff like Broccoli, which actually takes more energy to digest than it yields in calories, especially if eaten raw.
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Minimilistic Caloric Intake.
That will only make you lose muscle faster than fat.  Because muscle takes energy to maintain, and fat does not, the body will recognize the reduced intake as a lack of food, and thus will actually retain the fat in an effort to outlast a famine, while eliminating the muscle to further reduce the metabolism.
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No Sugars.
Again, I wouldn't recommend no sugars.  I might recommend no fructose (which indirectly causes weight gain by bypassing the metabolic pathway which leads to satiation), and limit sucrose, but I wouldn't cut out sugars entirely.
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No weight training.
Sounds good.
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"The cake is a lie."

Terri-Gene

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2005, 10:54:24 am »
A word about musle loss and HRT.  It is a given fact that large muscle mass can not be supported without Testosterone.  Female muscle can be toned, firmed and strengthened, but large massive development is almost impossible without the use of steroids.

When I started HRT originally, it was explained to me that over time, a lot of time, I would eventually lose approximately 30% of existing muscle mass with nothing at all being done about it.

At present, I have noticed an obvious loss in physical strenth, some things which had been taken for granted as to handling things of weight, are now a consious effort.  Sometimes to my dismay.  While my deminsions have not at first glance changed all that much, the feel and texture of my body is different, with large musles in the chest and upper body having softened and the definition I had years ago so relidgiously developed is now all but gone.  I no longer have that hard lean tone and tune of the past.  These days I can actually pinch together the skin on my forearms and bicepts, something that could not easily be done a few years ago because of the leanness.

By feel, I can tell that much of the upper body mass is more fatty in nature.  This process will continue for perhaps another couple or few years as I understand it, and I look forward to it's completion.  I must learn that I do not need such things for my confidence or self esteam.

Terri

Jessica

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2005, 11:43:20 am »
Thank you all for the responses :)

Jessica

Lisbeth

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2005, 04:49:05 pm »
When I started HRT originally, it was explained to me that over time, a lot of time, I would eventually lose approximately 30% of existing muscle mass with nothing at all being done about it.

At present, I have noticed an obvious loss in physical strenth, some things which had been taken for granted as to handling things of weight, are now a consious effort.  Sometimes to my dismay.  While my deminsions have not at first glance changed all that much, the feel and texture of my body is different, with large musles in the chest and upper body having softened and the definition I had years ago so relidgiously developed is now all but gone.  I no longer have that hard lean tone and tune of the past.  These days I can actually pinch together the skin on my forearms and bicepts, something that could not easily be done a few years ago because of the leanness.

This is kind of a non-issue to me, because I have never had much muscle mass or upper body strength.

In any case, light-headedness is an indicator that you are dieting too fast.

stephanie_craxford

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2005, 08:45:38 pm »
For myself, I have noticed that I've lossed quite a lot of muscle mass.  I started an almost veggi diet in January 05 to correct a cholesterol problem, and HRT in March 05, and maintained a fairly active lifestyle, jogging, and kayaking.  I didn't have that much fat on my body to start with, so I suspect that most of the weight I lost was through the loss of muscle.  Although I don't seem to have lost any strenght, I have lost a lot of mass,  I had my regular medical check-up last Monday and the doctor is still happy with my health and weight etc...  I've stabilized at 122 - 124LBS, and I'm happy with that.

Steph

gina_taylor

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2005, 02:59:45 am »
Ever since I started HRT back in March of this year, I've found that I've lost fifteen pounds! My health has been fairly good as well. I run every night for two miles and I sweet alot during the day, and I drink a lot of water.

Gina

Cassandra

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2005, 12:42:26 pm »
I've definetely noticed the loss in muscle. Things that seemed light before are much heavier.
Used to when I came back from the grocery store with a lot of bags I could carry allmost all of them in at ounce, now I have to make several trips. I have noticed one peculiar thing though. I can open jars easier. Maybe my grip is improving from having to hold onto, what are now, heavy things.

Women always seem to have an easier time opening jars then men. Seems strange. Anybody else experience this or am I just crazy.  :icon_weirdface:

Cassie

stephanie

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2005, 04:50:27 pm »
If I have a hard time opening a jar, I run it under hot water for a few seconds, then use a towel and it pops right open.  My ex-wife used to tighten the cap on a bottle of pop to the point where it was hermetically sealed.  I had to figure this out if I wanted anything to drink.

I've been cutting out all the bad things from my diet slowly - this last week I've cut way down on pop and fatty foods, instead drinking water and taking 30 minute walks every night.  I've already lost five pounds in a week!  Need to trim down a lot, I don't want to have a beer gut.

M.A.T.H.R.O.X.

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2005, 10:19:55 pm »
Hi im new here just wondering if theres a way to use the transexual male to female procedure as a way to lose muscle mass, without growing breasts..
or if anyone has any way to lose muscle i would like to know,......i have over muscular legs and back and i wish to have a more feminine body but not undergo a sex change surgery.


thnx

oxoo

Kimberly

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2005, 11:38:25 pm »
Functionally no not really. HRT does too many things, muscle loss is only one of them. Also, my understanding is that once HRT is stopped and testosterone again flows unimpeded in your body you’ll build muscle mass again. The above totally ignores risks and costs which you’d want to look *very* closely at before you actually did anything.

Offline Sarah Louise

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Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2005, 02:25:14 pm »
I can relate, I have lost (what in my mind) is a lot of muscle strength.  I used to have very strong hands (I ran large printing presses), now I have trouble opening some jars.  I also notice it when I am moving things in the house, things I used to move with no problem are now heavy to me and difficult to handle.

Sarah
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alleigh

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2005, 03:26:01 pm »
Any luck with this?  I am going to give it a try over the next month or so, if I could lose 2" off my shoulders then that would be awesome!

alleigh

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2005, 08:59:03 pm »
Just the diet / exercise part that is, going for a month or so with all the cardio and really low fat & protein.

Annwyn

Re: Losing Muscle
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2006, 10:34:11 am »
Protein does a lot more than just contribute to muscular growth.  Your hair is made of protein.  Your body produces hormones with the protein you consume.  Your heart and eyes and Nervous System ALL NEED PROTEIN!!  Whatever you do, DO NOT cut down to less than .30 grams of protien per pound you weigh!
Carbohydrates are your LIFE FORCE.  Literally, life revolves around the sun, water, and CARBOHYDRATES!  Eg: CARBON AND WATER.  If you cut down on your carbs, your mental performance will suffer, your physical performance will suffer.  You can take all the vitamins in the world but they are absolutely useless without carbs.  Don't cut down on carbs.
Calories:  Pssht, get rid of them.  That means no more sweets, no more deep-fried stuff, just simple and healthy.  If you have a healthy carbohydrate level, then you don't need calories, they're just a quick-fix to energy levels that leave you burnt out and are NOT healthy for your heart.
WOrds of caution:
Artificial sweeteners are in my opinion; EVIL.  Why?  My mother and I both have fibromyalgia from different sweeteners.  Sucralose(splenda) has been shown to shrink and harden your liver, shrink your kidneys and stomach and other organs up to 60%!  I can't TELL you how bad that is!  Aspertame DIRECTLY CONVERTS INTO METHANOL which then DIRECTLY HURTS YOUR EYES by cutting off oxygen to them!!!  Sweet'n'Low LEADS TO FIBROMYALGIA and can contribute to heart disorders and CANCER!  If you must have sweets, just have the sugar!  Seriously!
Cholesterol: I don't have it.  I'll eat plenty of cinnamin in my diet, but I refuse to eat eggs or sausage.  Why?  The fats and large amounts of cholesterol will kill me.  They'll kill you too, atleast your figure.  I don't think you should quit meat, I just htink you should stick entirely to pan and oven cooking, HATE THE FRYER!
Keep up a good level of carbs, protein, water, and vitamins as well as half an hour of cardio every night and 10 minutes in the morning  BEFORE YOU EAT BREAKFAST and I promise you results as well as healthier skin, hair, and perfomance.  Always avoid as much fat as possible, but don't neglect yourself the steaks and regular vegatables.  You CAN'T LIVE OFF OF SALADS.   Kay^_^
Also, to lose muscle?
It's not a typical practice of your body to LOSE muscle, though with age and inactivity, you can.  What your best bet would be is to over-exercise.  What do I mean?  Well if you want to get a smaller chest then do as many pushups as you can every single day, abusing yourself horribly.  Why?  When you exercise you break down muscle, and if you don't give it a chacne to recover... eventually when it does recover it'll have shrunk, but have gotten longer and lean and be + + all around!  Most guys have larger backs though.  That will just have to decrease over time, and with anti-androgyns.  Bike instead of run, so you don't practice that stupid posture, and  sit down as much as you can.  I guess thta's my two cents!^_^

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